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Thread: The SMITHS QUASAR "Constellation"

  1. #51
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    I'm looking at four clear stages - the crystal, an oscillator circuit (oc) to fire the crystal up, an inverter (i) of some sort and a divider that looks binary to me followed by an output to, presumably further iterations of the binary circuit. I'm not wading through the description of the operation in French tonight but that looks like a simple overflow setup.

    Mind you, my only real experience of this sort of stuff is wading through W Grey Walter's analog neurons for connectionist inspiration decades ago. I'm so far from an expert it isn't funny.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Ok, I think I see the logic, even though I was always taught that the LSB and MSB were singular, I see what you mean. but I'm unclear how that would be instantiated in the sort of simple IC overflow counter that was available at the time. I'm not disagreeing, only asking for an explanation.
    Most significant bits (plural) are the bits closest to, and including, the MSB. Similarly for LSBs. A simple 13 bit binary counter will overflow exactly 189 times per second at 1.548288MHz (every time all 13 of those trailing zeros appear simultaneously) . That sounds like an odd number but it factorises into usable numbers for gearing.

    It may be easier to visualise with lower numbers. 40Hz (not a power of 2) will overflow a 3 bit counter exactly five times a second - every time the counter passes 1112. Converted to base-10 that happens at counts of 8, 16, 24, 32 and 40.

    This could all be absolute nonsense and it's achieved in a completely different manner, but that way seems fairly straightforward.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Most significant bits (plural) are the bits closest to, and including, the MSB. Similarly for LSBs. A simple 13 bit binary counter will overflow exactly 189 times per second at 1.548288MHz (every time all 13 of those trailing zeros appear simultaneously) . That sounds like an odd number but it factorises into usable numbers for gearing.

    It may be easier to visualise with lower numbers. 40Hz (not a power of 2) will overflow a 3 bit counter exactly five times a second - every time the counter passes 1112. Converted to base-10 that happens at counts of 8, 16, 24, 32 and 40.

    This could all be absolute nonsense and it's achieved in a completely different manner, but that way seems fairly straightforward.
    It's a minor thing, but are you sure about the MSB thing? I'm pretty sure that the MSB is one end, the LSB the other and all the others are merely SBs. The reasoning I was taught for the names was that flipping the MSB gave the largest change in the number while flipping the LSB gave the least change. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste, but how would you distinguish between the MSBs and LSBs when they meet in the middle of the string? It's not a big deal, just terminology, but it confused me.

    Either way, understanding dawns, that's really cool. Thanks.

    Have you looked at the patent and the circuit diagram? I'm pretty sure it's an earlier paper that marked a significant point in development, but it looks to be well before the final version. That at least looks to be an iterated binary overflow. However, the main article talks of binary being old hat and the Quasar dividing by 'higher factors' (note the plural!) and outputting not 1 hz but .5

    And, by way of ante:

  4. #54
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    I was just having a bit of fun with the maths to see what was possible with unusual frequencies, but I’ll try to look at the relevant documents at the weekend. I’m using MSBs and LSBs plural to indicate sequential strings of bits from the far left or right of a base-2 number respectively, it‘s a usage that I’m comfortable with and Wikipedia seems to agree (not that that proves anything).



    Don't Panic

  5. #55
    Unfortunately (due to the fact the I didn't really go to school in any normal sense of the word combined with my very own -- and vast -- stupidity; I'm not sure any school could have made much of such poor raw material) I am completely lost by this thread.

    I have a decent layman's grasp of amplitude and even isochronism but anything involving figures with more than four digits is simply too big a number for me.

    But I am always glad that there are people who know and understand these things.

    Carry on chaps! As you were!

  6. #56
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    If you start working on MWR please give us a link so we can follow the discussion. Thanks.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    I was just having a bit of fun with the maths to see what was possible with unusual frequencies, but I’ll try to look at the relevant documents at the weekend. I’m using MSBs and LSBs plural to indicate sequential strings of bits from the far left or right of a base-2 number respectively, it‘s a usage that I’m comfortable with and Wikipedia seems to agree (not that that proves anything).



    Ooh, that's lovely.

    I don't think that we are in any danger of misunderstanding each other and as you were explaining something I didn't fully grasp, it's churlish to labour the point, so I'll stop. I'll be really interested to see what you make of it all. I'll try to dig up a patent from Smiths closer to the exact watch.

    Last edited by M4tt; 7th February 2020 at 18:11.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Unfortunately (due to the fact the I didn't really go to school in any normal sense of the word combined with my very own -- and vast -- stupidity; I'm not sure any school could have made much of such poor raw material) I am completely lost by this thread.

    I have a decent layman's grasp of amplitude and even isochronism but anything involving figures with more than four digits is simply too big a number for me.

    But I am always glad that there are people who know and understand these things.

    Carry on chaps! As you were!
    An electronic overflow integrated circuit isn't hard to visualise, just think water:

    Imagine a tap running water into a pair of cups.

    Every time both of the cups (2 in total) are full, they empty into a second set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (4 in total now) are full they empty into a third set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (8 in total now) are full they empty into a fourth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (16 in total now) are full they empty into fifth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (32 in total now) are full they empty into a sixth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (64 in total now) are full they empty into a seventh set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (128 in total now) are full they empty into a eighth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (256 in total now) are full they empty into a ninth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (512 in total now) are full they empty into a tenth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (1024 in total now) are full they empty into an eleventh set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (2048 in total now) are full they empty into twelfth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (4096 in total now) are full they empty into a thirteenth set of cups.

    Every time both of these cups (8192 in total now) are full they empty into a fourteenth set of cups. (First in the Beta 21 or 35SQ)

    Every time both of these cups (16384 in total now) are full they empty into an eleventh set of cups. (First in the Seiko Cal.3832)

    Every time both of these cups (32768 in total now) are full they sound a gong! (First in the Girard Perregaux Cal.352)

    And in this way, by simply repeating a simple process fifteen times you can divide a 32768hz vibration down to a 1hz pulse suitable for driving a stepper motor.

    Marie Curie discovered that you could vibrate quartz, but making a watch out of it had to wait for the germanium and then silicon integrated circuit. Like most computing and calculating, it's not hard, it's just incredibly repetitive.
    Last edited by M4tt; 7th February 2020 at 19:09.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Marie Curie discovered that you could vibrate quartz,.
    Pedantically, I think that was her husband and his brother.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Pedantically, I think that was her husband and his brother.
    In the same way as Crick and Watson discovered the structure of DNA. As Marie put it some time later:

    ”It is easy to overlook those who have not the active support of influential persons”.

  11. #61
    Thanks!

    So the quartz vibrates really fast (due to an electrical current?) and that super fast buzzing is halved and halved and halved and so on until you have a usable "pulse" at so many beats per minute / hour / second, which is then turned into a mechanical movement, this last bit being similar to way a watch escapement is a regular release that's then geared down? That can be seen in how many tiny increments the seconds hand moves in ("Most modern mechanical watches have a working frequency of 3–4 Hz, or 6–8 beats per second (21,600–28,800 beats per hour; bph). Faster or slower speeds are used in some watches (33,600 bph, or 19,800 bph)"). The higher the number of beats the "smoother" and less jerky or stuttery the hand. But quartz watches "tick" at 1 bps / 60 bph because it can be regulated that down, accurately, to the lowest number, so the hand makes the largest possible jump (1 per second). The rest is then a conventional 1/60 gear train for the other two hands

    Does a quartz crystal always vibrate at the same frequency due to its innate structure? Or does its size, the amount of current etc make it behave differently?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    In the same way as Crick and Watson discovered the structure of DNA. As Marie put it some time later:

    ”It is easy to overlook those who have not the active support of influential persons”.
    She would only have been 13 at the time, but I take your point about women’s contributions being overlooked.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Thanks!

    So the quartz vibrates really fast (due to an electrical current?) and that super fast buzzing is halved and halved and halved and so on until you have a usable "pulse" at so many beats per minute / hour / second, which is then turned into a mechanical movement, this last bit being similar to way a watch escapement is a regular release that's then geared down? That can be seen in how many tiny increments the seconds hand moves in ("Most modern mechanical watches have a working frequency of 3–4 Hz, or 6–8 beats per second (21,600–28,800 beats per hour; bph). Faster or slower speeds are used in some watches (33,600 bph, or 19,800 bph)"). The higher the number of beats the "smoother" and less jerky or stuttery the hand. But quartz watches "tick" at 1 bps / 60 bph because it can be regulated that down, accurately, to the lowest number, so the hand makes the largest possible jump (1 per second). The rest is then a conventional 1/60 gear train for the other two hands

    Does a quartz crystal always vibrate at the same frequency due to its innate structure? Or does its size, the amount of current etc make it behave differently?

    There are a variety of different shapes or cuts of quartz. The two most common are precisely the shape of a tuning fork, which is precisely what it is, holding a precise “musical’ note due to its physical structure. Most modern quartz are tuning forks which are set off by an electronically generated tone that is roughly correct and is refined by the crystal. Yours is lentil shaped, as are most HF examples.

    Quartz is piezoelectric, as it is deformed it generates a precise electrical signal as it vibrates. This is fed through the electric ‘cups’ to the required frequency at which point the signal controls a stepper motor, escapement (oysterquartz) or low frequency metal tuning fork (beta 21 or accuquartz) which converts the electrical signal back into motion and a traditional train, except in the Citizen E510 which just has a stepper motor for each hand. High frequency like yours is thermoinsensitive, the High accuracy stuff from Seiko, for example, is thermocompensated, either by having a thermistor or two separate quartz that regulate each other in a fiendish manner.

    There are also metal tuning forks. I wrote something about them a while back:

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f45/inside-f300-f720-m4tt-298152.html


    Last edited by M4tt; 8th February 2020 at 07:49.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    She would only have been 13 at the time, but I take your point about women’s contributions being overlooked.
    Well, I’ll be damned! You are quite right. I was told that by someone I considered an authority about thirty years ago and have been repeating it ever since. Thanks for correcting me. This must be the third time this has happened recently. I really need to double check some of my received wisdom!

  15. #65
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    Quasar Parts..

    I have (I think) every parts for the Quasar. (they came from the cheltenaham sale).
    I will take some close up photos of the parts today.. I'll be back..
    John Senior..

  16. #66
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    That’s going to be really interesting. Thank you.

  17. #67
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    Quasar spare parts photos

    Here we go,
    let me me know if you need any close ups of any of the other parts etc..
    John























  18. #68
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    Just a few ideas before I head to bed - that's definitely a stepper motor then, but what a stepper motor! The IC is clearly a cmos and not something earlier and looks suspiciously similar to an upside down version of the later Motorola SC1001.
    compared to the

    It's an interesting mixture of a bridge that was both clearly ready for market (and beautiful) and the rotor of the stepper motor which, with blocks of magnet glued on it, has more than a hint of The Shed about it. Why top and bottom though? if they were offset, I'd get it, but top and bottom in the same position? It's a lot of weight for such light spindles; I'd not be banging it about!

    The bedpan shaped quartz covers give a sense of the substantial lenticular crystal inside, but would be near impossible to open without breaking it.

    Compared to the GP 352, from '72:



    (with the earlier Motorola 1001) there's a lot of train going on there - do you have all the wheels and cogs from the train to mock up the train and get a sense of what's going on mathematically there? There's 26 teeth (I think) on that first cog...

    Also note the difference between the lenticular crystal housing and the tuning fork one (to the left).

    How does the watch tick? is it 1 hz like a standard quartz or something a little more arcane - it could be spinning a bit like a slow glide wheel for all I know - that would make sense given the train...
    Last edited by M4tt; 11th February 2020 at 13:23.

  19. #69
    Thanks John & Matt: I really appreciate your knowledge and input here!

    (And thanks for the photos John: more Smiths porn for my personal collection . . . . .)

    Well, this is turning into quite the thread!

    All being well (and at the moment I'm not well -- stomach bug) I shall be picking up my Quasar tomorrow

    I'm quite excited: I think apart from this one and John's there are only three other people known to me who have working examples, so I think that makes maybe half a dozen maximum? Whether more could be made from bits is probably worth exploring: John, David (HookedSeven) and one other person have what I think is probably all the spares and parts in existence. (I'd be very very surprised if any more turn up but who knows what's out there?)

    Oh, and I'll be posting a couple nice Smiths up for sale to pay for the new arrival -- someone please buy them or my wife will kill me.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Thanks John & Matt: I really appreciate your knowledge and input here!

    (And thanks for the photos John: more Smiths porn for my personal collection . . . . .)

    Well, this is turning into quite the thread!

    All being well (and at the moment I'm not well -- stomach bug) I shall be picking up my Quasar tomorrow

    I'm quite excited: I think apart from this one and John's there are only three other people known to me who have working examples, so I think that makes maybe half a dozen maximum? Whether more could be made from bits is probably worth exploring: John, David (HookedSeven) and one other person have what I think is probably all the spares and parts in existence. (I'd be very very surprised if any more turn up but who knows what's out there?)

    Oh, and I'll be posting a couple nice Smiths up for sale to pay for the new arrival -- someone please buy them or my wife will kill me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Thanks John & Matt: I really appreciate your knowledge and input here!

    (And thanks for the photos John: more Smiths porn for my personal collection . . . . .)

    Well, this is turning into quite the thread!

    All being well (and at the moment I'm not well -- stomach bug) I shall be picking up my Quasar tomorrow

    I'm quite excited: I think apart from this one and John's there are only three other people known to me who have working examples, so I think that makes maybe half a dozen maximum? Whether more could be made from bits is probably worth exploring: John, David (HookedSeven) and one other person have what I think is probably all the spares and parts in existence. (I'd be very very surprised if any more turn up but who knows what's out there?)

    Oh, and I'll be posting a couple nice Smiths up for sale to pay for the new arrival -- someone please buy them or my wife will kill me.
    When it comes to the actual electronics, I'm pushing myself, there's a resistor (and it isn't variable - I'm sure someone can tell me the resistance on sight, rather than needing to dig the code and decode it. I assume that this was functioning as a trimmer for the initial frequency generator, but I note that all the watches have the same value - this is half a guess, but I wonder if production models would have been trimmed by working out the correct resistor to add? It would be great to see if working models have different values...

    The small silver tube looks like a capacitor, which I assume is there to smooth it all out a bit.

    The motor having four magnets on two levels (and being huge and heavy) makes me wonder if it is actually stopping and starting or continually rotating (lets call it 'steady stepping') As such, I'm really interested in whether the second hand is smooth(ish) or has a 1hz tick - the energy involved in accelerating and decelerating that large rotor (and eight magnets) looks significant if it actually stops and starts.

    This would be bad for battery life, not to mention the significant angular momentum going through the pivots. I'm not sure that this will be a popular opinion, but I can't help feeling that the stepper motor might be a serious weakness in this watch as there's a risk of wear if not serviced and snapping under a shock load.

    In many ways the Quasar feels similar to the Seiko 35sq Astron; it's an odd mixture of mature design and hand engineered bits.
    I assume that, had a full production model been developed, these rough edges would have been smoothed and produced what would have been, a couple of years earlier or with a bit more support, a really solid watch that would have stood toe to toe with other unconventional high end quartz such as the Oysterquartz. The development of the 3823 from the 35sq gives a sense of how the Smiths could have developed.

    However, I don't think people are looking at the economics right. the Smiths was late to market for a first generation quartz. But it wasn't a first generation quartz, it wasn't even a second generation quartz, it was a first generation HAQ and thus needs to be compared to other first generation HAQ - the Omega 2.4 (which was far more expensive) or the Seiko 4883 Superior which was merely thermocompensated rather than insensitive and also rather pricey (and rare).
    Against these, it was early and I see no reason why it shouldn't have been competitive.

    To get a sense of this, once you've got the watch, it would be fantastic to run a proper series of daily stability observations on and off the wrist... I'm not sure where accuracy will actually stand, but stability will give us a sense of where it could have stood in a properly set up watch.

    If Smiths had advertised properly, had sold it as a marine chronometer, the sort of watch you'd need on Concorde and so on, then I see no reason why it couldn't have been as successful as the Omega or Seiko (if they'd sorted out the rotor).

    Once again, there's a real sense of just how close the British watch industry came to surviving. If John Delorean had been caught, if Belle Sauvage Yard hadn't been Blitzed, If Wilsdorf had stayed and now, if there had been enough whatever to keep going into a properly realised production model, more accurate than all but the Omega 1500 Series and the Seiko Superior, which was more expensive and rare as Hell.
    Last edited by M4tt; 11th February 2020 at 00:25.

  21. #71
    Just posted a link to this thread over at the Smiths sub-forum of mwr, which may bring in some more information.

    I do like the gilding and rubies combined with slightly Heath Robinson engineering and a "Tomorrow's World" aesthetic (that blocky, "computerised" Q logo is particularly dated!)

    A real oddity but also a proper period piece.

    And now I can trace Smiths from X (1944) to Q (1974). Watches that went up Everest, down to the the Antarctic and (albeit in very limited numbers) flew with the RAF in the '40s, 50s and 60's.

    As I always say: why have a watch from the Swiss Alps when you can have one from the Cotswold Hills?

    And all in-house, too.

  22. #72
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    Gliding?

  23. #73
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    This is a fascinating thread, I've had to read it twice to get my head around the more technical aspects (electronics is not one of my strong points). Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

    Tapatapatapatapatalk

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Gliding?
    I assumed the gold colour was Smiths "epsilon" gilt finish as used from the late 1940s onwards. I might be wrong. You think otherwise?

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I assumed the gold colour was Smiths "epsilon" gilt finish as used from the late 1940s onwards. I might be wrong. You think otherwise?
    Nope, I just can’t tell the difference between ‘gilding’ and ‘gliding’. I was thinking of the movement of the second hand. Does it tick once a second or move in a slightly smoother manner?

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Nope, I just can’t tell the difference between ‘gilding’ and ‘gliding’. I was thinking of the movement of the second hand. Does it tick once a second or move in a slightly smoother manner?
    I think they tick once per second

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I think they tick once per second
    I think so too - "the movement starts precisely one second after the starting knob is pressed." HJ Jul 73

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    I think so too - "the movement starts precisely one second after the starting knob is pressed." HJ Jul 73
    Well that's one hypothesis sunk then - mind you. given the nature of the system, whatever it was would take one second to start as that's how long it would take to work through the IC...

    That said, the way human perception works, you'd not notice that the first tick had happened until about 400ms after it happened. A fact every quartz owing WIS is familiar with.

    Why does it need so much train if the output of it is unchanged from the input?

  29. #79
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    We need to see one running.
    Don't Panic

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    We need to see one running.
    Here’s a few of my Omega ticking from 1hz to 720hz

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj1GOACnbJc

    Here’s a couple more:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=smfx2F61cSg

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hKEYK4GhsBo

  31. #81
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    I've only just got round to properly looking at the other articles. The second one says that IC reduces f to 0.5Hz.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    I've only just got round to properly looking at the other articles. The second one says that IC reduces f to 0.5Hz.
    Indeed, but with two discrete stators, and four rotor magnets, that offers a far greater range of possibilities than the standard dipole stepper motor. However, as you know, magnetic effects drop off sharply and so such a large and crude motor is liable not to be doing anything too clever. My bet would be both acting in concert, with the leftmost pulling the incoming magnet, while pushing the middle magnet to its partner which in turn would be pulling that magnet while pushing the outgoing magnet. This would generate the most torque of any setup I can think of.

    With four magnets, it also means the motor would rotate half a turn in two increments every second. The idea that we have a four pole, two stator, stepper motor set up that acts half like a conventional dipole two stator motor turning the rotor by half a turn every half a second seems silly.

    The moment you start thinking about motion rather than discrete steps, the possibilities open up a bit - and the power drain drops right off as you are just maintaining momentum...

    (I confess I'm in the middle of a migraine and so this may not make sense. Sorry)
    Last edited by M4tt; 12th February 2020 at 09:00.

  33. #83
    From the mwr thread:


    - it is a one second jump with a merry little bounce (a mechanically poor design)
    - it needs to be set by TIM on the second pip, not third as there is a one second delay
    - (mine) eats batteries... 9 months is about right
    - there is a serious design flaw in the age-hardening flexible pcb. It is repairable by skilled engineers with ingenuity
    - it's a lovely watch which excellent time keeping
    - they're b***y heavy - Charles Atlas course recommended (or 3 Weetabix)!
    - there were a nurse's fob watch and pocket-watch prototypes... and doubtless several others in the pipeline
    - this was a 'sideline' to Smiths' advanced aviation, motoring and marine quartz clock technology... see 'The Golden Years' -parts 1 and 2.

    Enjoy!

  34. #84
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    What are the chances of a YouTube vid rev'd

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    I'd like to see a you tube vid from the side with the back open too so we can slow it down and see precisely how the stepper motor moves, because I'm struggling to reconcile a .5 hz pulse with a one second tick.

    God knows, there's going to be enough lash in that system to give you a jaunty little bounce that a Speedmaster would be proud of, but is there the slightest possibility that we are seeing a series of .5hz ticks and our eyes and brains are reconciling them into a messy 1hz tick?

    Such a tick would not be something we are terribly familiar with and, in the Grand Seiko which has a very complex tick indeed, we see a firm single tick. The phi phenomena is more than capable of confounding what we think we see. Even then, it looks like a stretch.

    But how do two .5hz pulses become a single 1hz tick. Looking at it more carefully, it is quite possible that the train is simply to clear the crystal and is simply carrying the signal rather than modifying it much.

    I'm still migrainous, and bloody stupid to be writing something that's making me feel sick!

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Ok, if my French is up to it, I've got the seminal patent:

    https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...A1&KC=A1&ND=4#

    I also notice that Smiths patented a bloody tuning fork too - now there's a Smiths to be looking out for!
    Hi Matt, a translating option is available on the Espacenet site:

    http://translationportal.epo.org/emt...=fr&TRGLANG=en

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    I also notice that Smiths patented a bloody tuning fork too - now there's a Smiths to be looking out for!
    I sincerely hope that wasn’t this that I forgot to bid on last month:



    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F254481545146

  38. #88
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I sincerely hope that wasn’t this that I forgot to bid on last month:



    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F254481545146
    That looks like an "electric" with an electromagnetic balance wheel, rather than a tuning fork... even though it says "electronic" on the dial.

  39. #89
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    That looks like an "electric" with an electromagnetic balance wheel, rather than a tuning fork... even though it says "electronic" on the dial.
    Agreed, transistor controlled ESA Dynotron I suspect.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Agreed, transistor controlled ESA Dynotron I suspect.
    I thought it probably was. I like them - pretty good for £30.

  41. #91
    Yes, I think those watches used bought-in modules / movements are are nothing special

  42. #92
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    Invitation for Matt.

    Matt, I am getting on a bit now & not computer savvy nor electronics savvy, I would gladly make a video to post but dont know how to post one, or have the patience to learn! I'm also far too busy with other things at the moment.. So if you would like me to loan one of my Quasars (that is working) & any other parts for detailed inspection you are more than welcome.
    john.

  43. #93
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    quasar video


  44. #94
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Really appreciated, John. It's great to see one running.

  45. #95
    Craftsman
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    Brilliant videos John and a really distinctive and 70's futuristic watch. The movement video is almost, very nearly, in time with the music!

    Thanks for posting those, this thread needed some visuals for those of us technically deficient.

  46. #96
    I am now the proud owner of a Quasar!

    But I’ve yet to fit a battery as the screw that fixes the retainer / contact is very small and I am very clumsy!

    I might have a look at my tweezer and screwdriver collection and see if can find tools that look suitable but even then do I trust myself?

  47. #97
    Thanks John.

    Is it just me or does the stepper motor move in time to the Michael Jackson beat?

    Q for Quasar and Quincy Jones.

    Quote Originally Posted by tokdok View Post

  48. #98
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    its fiddly Ollie, do take care!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I am now the proud owner of a Quasar!

    But I’ve yet to fit a battery as the screw that fixes the retainer / contact is very small and I am very clumsy!

    I might have a look at my tweezer and screwdriver collection and see if can find tools that look suitable but even then do I trust myself?

    Ollie Don't worry too much about losing the screw, I have plenty..
    If you loosen either screw slightly & take out the other, slip the cell under the contact clamp (pointy end/positive of the cell down) & then you
    will need to press the loose bridge/contact arm over with a toothpick or similar to align the holes, & then insert the screw (you will need tweezers to place it in position before screwing down) Hopefully it will then start ticking.. any problem let me know..
    john

  49. #99
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    Yes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Thanks John.

    Is it just me or does the stepper motor move in time to the Michael Jackson beat?

    Q for Quasar and Quincy Jones.
    Unintentional of course!

  50. #100
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    First, tokdoc, cheers, pm sent...

    Second. As I'm finally not seeing spots in front of my pain for the first time in days, I celebrated by doing maths. I'm not good at maths, but I think I've found an elegant solution by the simple expedient of dividing back from 1,548,288 - 7 is the highest unique division before ten and so makes a decent sized division without being too physically large or power draining for the tech of the time.

    It makes sense to do the largest division first as it means that all the other circuits are charging and discharging at a much slower rate, clawing back the power spent on this first division.

    This gives 221184. Dividing this by 2,3,5 and 7 gives nothing exciting, so divide by 2,3,5 and 7 again, nothing particularly divisible (by which I mean a power of two or three) and so divide by 2,3,5 and 7 again and bingo: dividing by 3 gives 8192: it's division by two all the way to .5.

    I bet there's a prettier way of saying this, but I'm no good at maths. I'm not going to admit how many discrete calculations I've done today, but I reckon that, unless they are using a circuit that divides by more than ten, which I confidently don't expect, then this is how they did it.
    If anyone can think of an algorithm that will take up less space on the chip and consume less electricity I'll tip my hat.

    So seven cups
    into three cups
    into three cups
    into three cups
    into two cups (thirteen times)

    I also worked out that there must be four coils, which tokdoc has confirmed by PM, and that it will therefore move by a quarter turn, as his fine new video confirms, so that's four coils wired in series and something like a square wave pulse so that .5hz gives a 1hz movement. That explains the capacitor, which must also be in series and is doing the precise opposite of smoothing. It's amazing how it all falls into place!
    Last edited by M4tt; 19th February 2020 at 08:27.

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