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Thread: French speeding fine - guilty as charged?

  1. #1
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    French speeding fine - guilty as charged?

    Dearest TZers

    Some of you may have seen my Bear Pit rant about an 'enjoyable' day at Disneyland Paris being compounded by being flashed by a speed camera on the way back. Well the fine landed back in Blighty yesterday....90 euro as I was doing 82kph (speed used 77kph) in a 50kph zone. Ouch.

    What has irritated me is that I was consciously sticking to the speed limits (or so I thought!). So, I present you with the evidence and invite you to be judge and jury - should I cough up the Euros, or try to appeal?

    The road was the N31 and I was driving into "Ons en Bray" doing ca. 80kph - here's the outskirts of town:



    oh here's the cheeky speed camera



    200m before the 50kph sign....sigh....



    I guess the question is: does the red boxed town name mean one is entering an urban area, and thus the limit is 50kph? Or is this a naughty trap by our snail eating cousins?
    Last edited by Kirk280; 29th August 2019 at 23:31.

  2. #2
    Master deerworrier's Avatar
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    the blurred out word under the 50kph sign, is it rappel? in which case its a reminder and the limit applied already.
    the red edged town name is the indication of the speed zone, as you suspected.

  3. #3
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Rappel, yes.

    Edit: sigh. At least the exchange rate is good. Oh....
    Last edited by Kirk280; 30th August 2019 at 00:09.

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    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    The town sign is the definitive point where the speed limit starts, Kirk.

  5. #5
    Craftsman
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    As stated above, the town sign is the point at which the 50km/h limit comes into effect.

    I also received a nice letter from the Normandy authorities last week for speeding on the toll road.

    I just paid it to avoid any hassle.




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  6. #6
    Grand Master
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    I really dislike French town speed limits, some of the ones I head through are down to 30 km and it's a one horse town with nobody to be seen!!!

    just pay it though.

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    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    I picked one up near Nancy. The letter urging me to pay was already on the doormat before I arrived back home. What surprised me: it was written in flawless Dutch and it was very easy to pay. A 'webshop-ish' way of paying with my c/card.

    90 euros? Be happy you don't get one here: doing 77km in a 50km zone is 224 euros here in Holland... (215 + 9 euros 'administration fee'!)

    Menno

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    Grand Master
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    Yes, town sign plus rappel; double warning son definitely no trap and the fine is cheap.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    I also confirm that the town panel is the start of the 50 km/h zone, unless there is a supplementary indication (30 or 70).
    No entrapment in this case. The camera was probably installed as too many cars were speeding on this perfectly straight portion of road.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  10. #10
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    Pay up Kirk, unless next time you visit France, you want lots of hassle and be interviewed in a Gauloise smoke filled room. Probably plus a sizeable fine.

    Steve

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    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not

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    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not
    That would be nice, one could disregard foreign traffic rules as much as one wanted with no regards for the consequences. Could even organise European racing tours, which English-speaking guides on the look-out for police.

    But how would you keep them pesky Europeans from doing the same in the UK?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    That would be nice, one could disregard foreign traffic rules as much as one wanted with no regards for the consequences. Could even organise European racing tours, which English-speaking guides on the look-out for police.

    But how would you keep them pesky Europeans from doing the same in the UK?
    All the high-profile traffic cops on the roads in the UK would put a stop to those shenanigans!



    No, wait........

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    Don't do it in Switzerland!

    Sent from my Moto G (5S) using TZ-UK mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not
    That would be fun for the UK; not receiving info about anyone going into Britain either; would make security even more difficult.

    You dó know that all of the EU27 actually know who is inside whereas the UK has no such system?

    Mán; it is just a fine for speeding; no trap and a very reasonable amount. What is your problem?? Being Brit!!
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

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    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not
    Countries in the EU implementing their own rules for speeding - quelle surprise!
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Sign me up for the European racing tour Raffe! I’ll dust off my driving gloves and my driving hip flask.

    Thanks for the advice all....I’m glad I was trying to ‘stick to the speed limit’ and not push on! It’s slightly annoying that it was 01:30 and I’d not seen another car driving for over an hour....but c’est la vie!

  18. #18
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not
    It would be so much fun, seeing Calais and Coquelles with a giant parking where all speeders would be parked until they’ve paid up before being allowed back to Blighty. It probably would only take a few days to have systems set up across the EU to get all offending number plates flagged to all UK-bound ports minutes after they have been flashed.
    They could even use the opportunity for further control, breath analysers, security equipment, the lot.
    Could be a money spinner, too
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

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    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Ask the lorry drivers from countries outside the EU: they have to pay instantly! That's going to happen when the UK cuts off its connection with their Continental colleagues about speeding tickets.

    Other than that: I think that the French are pretty relaxed when it comes to speed cameras and tickets. The Autoroutes/Peages are fantastic: 130 km hr is indeed 130 km/hr. When you're too fast, your license plate number appears on a matrix sign, urging you to cool down a little (Autoroute du Soleil heading down south). There's no speed limit for cars towing a trailer (80km in Germany, 90km in the Netherlands, 100km in the UK). That makes hauling a RIB / boats / caravan down south a lot easier than trotting along between lorries!

    What you see in France: the white and red sign with the city name is repeated in Germany: only a yellow/orange-ish nameplate is enough to lift the throttle and drop the speed to 50kms/hr. There's no round road sign with the allowed speed! And German police isn't easy on those who're speeding! You need to lift before you reach the sign/as soon as you can see it. A well-known trick: a speed camera only 25 mtrs after the town's name sign!
    Last edited by thieuster; 30th August 2019 at 08:13.

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    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Sign me up for the European racing tour Raffe! I’ll dust off my driving gloves and my driving hip flask.

    Thanks for the advice all....I’m glad I was trying to ‘stick to the speed limit’ and not push on! It’s slightly annoying that it was 01:30 and I’d not seen another car driving for over an hour....but c’est la vie!
    That's the spirit mate it was by all accounts a rubbish day, stick the family in the car and try again, kids don't stay young forever.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  21. #21
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It would be so much fun, seeing Calais and Coquelles with a giant parking where all speeders would be parked until they’ve paid up before being allowed back to Blighty. It probably would only take a few days to have systems set up across the EU to get all offending number plates flagged to all UK-bound ports minutes after they have been flashed.
    They could even use the opportunity for further control, breath analysers, security equipment, the lot.
    Could be a money spinner, too
    I am in, would set up a fish and chips there.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB687 View Post
    Don't do it in Switzerland!

    Sent from my Moto G (5S) using TZ-UK mobile app

    Unless you want this to happen €4000 on the spot fine plus trailer bike from the point of conviction to the border, as above the Swiss are serious about speeding.

    https://youtu.be/qL3v-VvmRhs

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post

    I guess the question is: does the red boxed town name mean one is entering an urban area, and thus the limit is 50kph? Or is this a naughty trap by our snail eating cousins?
    Yes this has been the case forever, certainly since I first drove in France in 1986.

  24. #24
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    I blame Brexit....

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    I’d just pay it if I were you


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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It would be so much fun, seeing Calais and Coquelles with a giant parking where all speeders would be parked until they’ve paid up before being allowed back to Blighty. It probably would only take a few days to have systems set up across the EU to get all offending number plates flagged to all UK-bound ports minutes after they have been flashed.
    They could even use the opportunity for further control, breath analysers, security equipment, the lot.
    Could be a money spinner, too
    Not to much fun for them when we all stop driving over there

  27. #27
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    Not to much fun for them when we all stop driving over there

    LOLZ, reminds me of this:



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    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    Not to much fun for them when we all stop driving over there
    Good luck with that one.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    LOLZ, reminds me of this:

    That's superb!
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  30. #30
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    I blame Brexit....
    I’d blame Brexit uncertainty.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  31. #31
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Imagine, someone on TZUK complaining about a foreign driver in the UK exceeding the speed limit by 20mph while driving through their village.

    What would the forum say ? Death by fire, hung drawn and quartered, the stocks, banned from entering the UK until a fine is paid..

    Perspective, it's a wonderful thing.

  32. #32
    Craftsman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    French speeding fine - guilty as charged?

    Your "speed camera" pic is a Google Streets or similar camera car's shadow.
    Last edited by ChromeJob; 31st August 2019 at 08:00. Reason: Misread OP my bad

  33. #33
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    Your "speed camera" pic is a Google Streets or similar camera car's shadow.

    BTW, 90 in a 50 zone, in some places you could lose your license.
    I assume the OP means the grey box against the hedge, not the shadow on the road.

  34. #34
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
    Your "speed camera" pic is a Google Streets or similar camera car's shadow.

    BTW, 90 in a 50 zone, in some places you could lose your license.
    I’m surprised the camera car’s shadow flashed me at 01:30 in the morning.

    I was clocked at 77kph.

    Thanks for your contribution!

  35. #35
    Craftsman ChromeJob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    I assume the OP means the grey box against the hedge, not the shadow on the road.
    Derp. Never seen one that looked like that. :-/

  36. #36
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    I believe the French citizens are burning the cameras a lot more now, but more worrying - is that I believe the French authorities are already handing over fine collection to UK private companies, who pursue the debt with escalating charges. Also seems to be the case that you may not even get an initial fine through from the French Authorities - it is straight over to the debt collectors.

    So - no matter about being in/out EU - the French have stumbled on a cash-cow with brits.

    Maybe it will reduce the tourists to France?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    I believe the French citizens are burning the cameras a lot more now, but more worrying - is that I believe the French authorities are already handing over fine collection to UK private companies, who pursue the debt with escalating charges. Also seems to be the case that you may not even get an initial fine through from the French Authorities - it is straight over to the debt collectors.

    So - no matter about being in/out EU - the French have stumbled on a cash-cow with brits.

    Maybe it will reduce the tourists to France?
    I'll bet we haven't got a reciprocal agreement...

  38. #38
    Master Xantiagib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    I wonder if we will still give the frog, UK drivers info when we are out of the EU, I bleeding well hope not
    ..and even if the uk refuse foreign-land exchange of fines that means the opposite has to be true (they don't get the fines incurred in blighty,) plus believe me, lack of fines being paid will lead to more (and higher) on the spot fines to recoup funds....

  39. #39
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    On the spot fines rely on gendarmes on the street. Not as efficient as a camera hidden in a private car.

    I think they want bigger returns than a gendarme can generate.

  40. #40
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    That would be nice, one could disregard foreign traffic rules as much as one wanted with no regards for the consequences. Could even organise European racing tours, which English-speaking guides on the look-out for police.

    But how would you keep them pesky Europeans from doing the same in the UK?
    I believe this is one of those things that the U.K. opted not to do, chase foreign drivers in their EU country, a bit like opting not to employ EU rules on EU immigration.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  41. #41
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I believe this is one of those things that the U.K. opted not to do, chase foreign drivers in their EU country, a bit like opting not to employ EU rules on EU immigration.
    Another 'cost saving exercise' like not chasing health tourists and cutting back on customs officials.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  42. #42
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    On the spot fines rely on gendarmes on the street. Not as efficient as a camera hidden in a private car.

    I think they want bigger returns than a gendarme can generate.
    You are right... and wrong. The system can easily be upgraded thanks to these wonderful things we have on motorways called “péages”.
    It allows for fixed radars, hidden cameras etc. To be used on a section of motorway, with a welcoming party dressed in blue pulling you over when you have effectively stopped. Limited resources used for a lucrative operation.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  43. #43
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    The police in several French regions are testing drones as a way to catch naughty motorists. They are not currently being used for speeding, although obviously that would be an easy step to take, but for observing dangerous driving, notably overtaking when there is a solid white line which, on the A126 in Essonne, is the root cause of many accidents - usually fatal.

    One of the big advantages for the police is that it is hard to spot a drone operating and thus hard to share the knowledge on Waze or Coyote.

    And in terms of return on expenditure, during a two hour test on the A126 the police issued over 60 penalty notices in 2 hours, a pretty good revenue to cost ratio I'd say.
    Last edited by SimonK; 2nd September 2019 at 23:51.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Another 'cost saving exercise' like not chasing health tourists and cutting back on customs officials.
    And continuing to pay benefits and housing benefit to EU nationals After the initial 6 months payments they are obligated to do. Had they enforced the rule that if after 6 months you cannot support yourself you need to leave then we may not have had Brexit...

  45. #45
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    And continuing to pay benefits and housing benefit to EU nationals After the initial 6 months payments they are obligated to do. Had they enforced the rule that if after 6 months you cannot support yourself you need to leave then we may not have had Brexit...
    Cripes, I had no idea about that one.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    And continuing to pay benefits and housing benefit to EU nationals After the initial 6 months payments they are obligated to do. Had they enforced the rule that if after 6 months you cannot support yourself you need to leave then we may not have had Brexit...
    Had British citizens taken the small effort to read the easy to find EU info in english, they would have found the whole scope of such limitiations not implemented by their own gvt.
    But then if they could have been arsed to look up ánything, the fabled big bad EU would not have existed in their minds, quite the reverse.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  47. #47
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Asking around among friends and colleagues shows that the French have posted a lot of these speeding ticket letters this year. In flawless Dutch as well (how's the English version?) Some letter arrived at the 'offender's' house before the family had returned from holiday. A new source of income, I suppose.

    On the other hand, driving up and down the Route du Soleil (roughly the route between Luxembourg and the Spanish border) during Spring and Autumn shows that the French all drive very well-behaved when it comes to speeding, the traffic signs are clear as well and a lot of those speed cameras are easy to spot and in plain sight.

    (Yes, I had my fair share of fines as well - all my own fault. Thinking: "90 km/hr. is only a suggested speed limit...")

    Menno

  48. #48
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Had British citizens taken the small effort to read the easy to find EU info in english, they would have found the whole scope of such limitiations not implemented by their own gvt.
    But then if they could have been arsed to look up ánything, the fabled big bad EU would not have existed in their minds, quite the reverse.
    Had the government's of the time made the public aware and maybe implemented the available law's - but they didn't, presumably because that would have required additional staff which as ever they were trying to cut back.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  49. #49
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    We use the French Autoroutes several times a year, (as Nigella Lawson quoted : 'an inconvenience to get to your final destination' ), although must admit the Auvergne, (with its BRITISH designed bridge at Millau), is amazing !

    The ones overtaking us (whilst at 90mh) are the Belgians and the SWISS (... FREEEDOM.... !) - consistently !

    Had a few smallish fines, and asked the copper taking payment at which level their gear was calibrated: 148KPH on their mobile units (hairdryers), and 138 on the static ones (on which there are pre warnings), hence our CC is set at 90mph.

    Amazing roads though, built for speed....

    Also, the UK does not have reciprocal arrangements with the EU, hence very very few foreign drivers get penalised here in the UK, as HMP are not allowed take payments on the spot ! (Hence a German Porsche driver, flashed at 190kph, walked away 'with a warning'....!)
    Last edited by ingenioren; 19th September 2019 at 09:55.

  50. #50
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingenioren View Post
    The ones overtaking us (whilst at 90mh) are the Belgians and the SWISS (... FREEEDOM.... !) - consistently !

    Had a few smallish fines, and asked the copper taking payment at which level their gear was calibrated: 148KPH on their mobile units (hairdryers), and 138 on the static ones (on which there are pre warnings), hence our CC is set at 90mph.
    Agreed re Belgians and Swiss, very much my experience.

    And, interesting re the margins the cameras are set to, I have always wondered that. The very precise warning signs re the static ones are pretty sporting.

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