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Thread: New Land Rover Defender revealed...

  1. #101
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Apologies, I was talking Merc Gs. I would imagine the ratio for Defenders, rebuilt or otherwise, would be much less.
    No, 80% Defenders still on the road sounds about right. The remaining 20% made it home.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    No, 80% Defenders still on the road sounds about right. The remaining 20% made it home.
    Indeed!

  3. #103
    Hot off the press from Land Rover.




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  4. #104



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  5. #105
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Should be great for bumping over the kerbs in Chelsea, that's if the engine is not doing its Mr frothy impression..

  6. #106
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    It just looks..............odd.

  7. #107
    I don't think they look too bad. Be better to see one in the flesh. That front (valance?) looks a bit low and exposed though.

  8. #108
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    Well, it's not a 'Defender/Land Rover" as we know it and never was going to be, it's more a macho'd up Discovery but it could have been a lot worse. As a utility Landy lover and user for 20 years I'm just pleased there are enough old ones about for the rest of us to enjoy.


  9. #109
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    Makes my soon to be handmade G Wagen look cheap! I very much like the look of the X, but not at over £85k for the spec I would want. Ludicrous pricing policy by JLR.

  10. #110
    What was wrong with the old defender?!

  11. #111
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    Very impressive specs but it isnít a car you will buy for its looks.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    What was wrong with the old defender?!
    It wasn't selling. It was expensive to build. It didn't conform to modern safety and emissions standards.

  13. #113

  14. #114
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    The Hamster's on it


  15. #115
    Its the Talbot Rancho mk 2

  16. #116
    Elegant arrival mode. A Defender?

  17. #117
    Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    New Land Rover Defender revealed...

    Quote Originally Posted by davide View Post
    Yes indeed. The new one is not aimed at that market although its aims are durability and unbeaten off-road capability.

    Time will tell us if they’ve achieved that but I suspect most buyers won’t get it muddy despite its abilities.


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    Thats the crux of it. Having seen the release videos today I have to say it is a lovely vehicle and clearly has the capabilities (and more) of it's predecessor. It's clearly not being targeted at it's original Defender market but will clearly be an attractive alternative for LR owners.

    This vehicle in all honesty should have been the reincarnation of the Discovery, as this will most probably be it's biggest demographic of buyers imho. It isn't a "working" vehicle in the true sense, being far more refined and seriously expensive. As it doesn't draw on the Defender's heritage and utilitarian function the LR 2020 "Pretender" would have been a more apt name.

    I like it nevertheless but not as a Defender "upgrade", and maybe 5 years down the line I will consider a secondhand model, once it has proven it's worth, seriously depreciated and had all the recalls sorted (so many JLR ECU's in one vehicle, what could possibly go wrong after wading through a river!), as I was always a fan of the older Discovery, but for now I will happily enjoy the charms of my original TD5.

    Last edited by Chinnock; 10th September 2019 at 14:12.

  18. #118
    Master Caruso's Avatar
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    Lego have released a technic model of the new Defender

    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...er-model/40939



    Looks like a challenging and fun build.

  19. #119
    Master Swissz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    Lego have released a technic model of the new Defender

    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...er-model/40939



    Looks like a challenging and fun build.
    The Lego model looks 10 times better than the Kia Soul LR has called a Defender

  20. #120

  21. #121
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    I think it looks a bit boxy.




    Oh wait, that's the Honda Element.

  22. #122
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    I owned a new 1990 Land Rover Defender 90 for towing the horse box and other work around the place.

    I loved it for 40k miles and 5 years, cramped interior and all, then the engine went bang. It had been serviced on the button but still the dealer and LR didnít want to help with the costs of rebuilding the engine.

    I recovered it to a specialist, paid for the rebuild and then sold it.

    Iíve kind of missed it ever since, and you can see the DNA in this new ĎDefenderí, but as others have said a totally different market is now being aimed at.

    I often look at the price the original defenders are being offered at on Auto Trader etc, and wish Iíd hung onto it!

  23. #123
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    I think it looks a bit boxy.




    Oh wait, that's the Honda Element.
    This got me thinking...



    ... and the new Toyota 4Runner looks even better.

  24. #124
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    The line of Defence regarding reliability...

    https://www.caradvice.com.au/792278/...t-reliability/

  25. #125
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    Seen the base 90 in the flesh at Goodwood and to be honest I like it. I should add I have had a number of the previous iterations including several 80inch series 1.
    Whether I like it enough to replace my Navara which was half the price, Iíll wait and see what they are like in the real world.
    Last edited by MonkeyBoy; 13th September 2019 at 19:22.

  26. #126
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    Does anyone know which models will be commercial vehicles from HMRC perspective?

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  27. #127
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    Land Roverís site says there will be a commercial option later in the year, I signed up for notification last week.

  28. #128
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    New Landrover, TZ version, unveiled!


    Cuidich 'n Righ

  29. #129
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    I read the in-depth Defender article in Car Magazine over the weekend. I think it's extremely fussy and hugely overpriced. I'm also very surprised that JLR doesn't see the need to have their entry level vehicle at a lower price point from a commercial point of view (but what do I know). If I was going to put £45k into an SUV (which is all the defender really is now) there are loads of more slick options at that price range.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkJS View Post
    I read the in-depth Defender article in Car Magazine over the weekend. I think it's extremely fussy and hugely overpriced. I'm also very surprised that JLR doesn't see the need to have their entry level vehicle at a lower price point from a commercial point of view (but what do I know). If I was going to put £45k into an SUV (which is all the defender really is now) there are loads of more slick options at that price range.
    and a telling note from LRO along the lines that it's too expensive as a workhorse and it's really a more macho disco with the comment 'why'?

  31. #131
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    My understanding is that commercial versions will be available in 2020.


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  32. #132
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    Saw one of these yesterday (I live near Graydon). From the rear it looks like a really bad Lego Technic version!!! Very, very square but definitely unique-looking.

    Was filling up with fuel so didnít get a chance to snap it unfortunately.

  33. #133
    Apprentice Scott594's Avatar
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    When it was first revealed I really disliked it after loving the old Defender so much. But I saw one on the road around Milton Keynes a couple of days ago and it looks a hell of a lot better in the flesh! Like some other posts on here, it's definitely unique!

  34. #134
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Order books now open apparently for the Defender 90 for late summer delivery. Coming to a country pub near you!
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  35. #135
    Master raptor's Avatar
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    Its a yeti after a bee attack

  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by raptor View Post
    Its a yeti after a bee attack
    I prefer the look of the Yeti.




    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  37. #137
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    I prefer the look of the Yeti.




    R
    Older people probably will!
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  38. #138
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    I prefer the look of the Yeti.




    R
    Agreed as that lump isn't a Defender.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  39. #139
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Agreed as that lump isn't a Defender.
    You're right, it's not.

    This is though.......

    Cuidich 'n Righ

  40. #140
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    The product is way too pricey. I specced a launch edition 110 to within £10k of my G. At that point, it became a no brainer. JLR are just not that good. Sorry. I may consider a CV for a cheap runaround though - 90 with steels.

  41. #141
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    This really is the Land Rover Walt
    It is called Defender, styled to look like one, and includes all the little "design cues" to make you think of the old one, like the trough across the dash, the shoulders above the rear lights, exposed spare at the back and so forth.
    But it isn't a Defender.
    It is not a sturdy farmer, who lives outdoors and can do anything because he does it every day.
    It is a city commodities trader who can do all the stuff because he spends so much time in the gym.
    Both equally capable, but one only does to work when the money's right.

    It is a minimum of £15k too much for the market the Defender used to own.
    Land Rover is cannibalising its own market share rather than re-opening the segment occupied by the oriignal Defender.
    Apart from the butch (Walt) looks, what maked this different from the Discovery?

    From Land Rover's own website

    Discovery - from £47, 745
    Defender 110 - from £45,560
    Even the RR Velar - from £45,260

    Huh? This is not 3 different spec levels of the same model, this is 3 totally different cars of the same design brief (large, high 4wd off-road capable 5-7 seast estate) from the same manufacturer, offered with (mostly) exactly the same engines, driver assistance, luxury levels etc etc. They need their heads read.

    D

  42. #142
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    This really is the Land Rover Walt
    It is called Defender, styled to look like one, and includes all the little "design cues" to make you think of the old one, like the trough across the dash, the shoulders above the rear lights, exposed spare at the back and so forth.
    But it isn't a Defender.
    It is not a sturdy farmer, who lives outdoors and can do anything because he does it every day.
    It is a city commodities trader who can do all the stuff because he spends so much time in the gym.
    Both equally capable, but one only does to work when the money's right.

    It is a minimum of £15k too much for the market the Defender used to own.
    Land Rover is cannibalising its own market share rather than re-opening the segment occupied by the oriignal Defender.
    Apart from the butch (Walt) looks, what maked this different from the Discovery?

    From Land Rover's own website

    Discovery - from £47, 745
    Defender 110 - from £45,560
    Even the RR Velar - from £45,260

    Huh? This is not 3 different spec levels of the same model, this is 3 totally different cars of the same design brief (large, high 4wd off-road capable 5-7 seast estate) from the same manufacturer, offered with (mostly) exactly the same engines, driver assistance, luxury levels etc etc. They need their heads read.

    D
    Just progress really. Probably not so much call for uncomfortable, slow, noisy works vehicles these days.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  43. #143
    Master mondie's Avatar
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    I think it looks hideous but then I dont buy into the whole JLR British heritage thing. Our business runs a commercial Defender and it never ceases to surprise with its unreliability and poor engineering. However, customers comment positively on it when it rolls up onsite for those 3 weeks in a month when it's not in the garage. Cars should be evolving and becoming more efficient but the popularity of SUV's has completed cocked right up that opportunity for progress.

  44. #144
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Just progress really. Probably not so much call for uncomfortable, slow, noisy works vehicles these days.
    Not progress really, at all.
    Loads of companies can do a 4x4 utility with considerable speed, capability and comfort at about £28k.
    JLR apparently can not.
    So they bloat the new Defender with all sorts of stuff it doesn't need, and hey presto, they end up with exactly the same specification as they already make, which is not intended for the utility market, as it is too expensive.

    But they have called it a Defender, so it has to look utilitarian. Ao they pitch it at the Walt market, the people who want to look tough but can afford not to actually get dirty (or only do so by choice).

    It's a roleplaying vehicle. A pretend utility for wealthy people.

    I have no problem with them doing this, but like I said before, I fail to see how this increases their market share. It nicks sales off themselves, not anyone else. And ultimately, that doesn't help the company.

    D

  45. #145
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    I really want one of these - just a little bit bigger, but then I don't buy something because of the badge.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  46. #146
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    I really want one of these - just a little bit bigger, but then I don't buy something because of the badge.
    You can even add a kit to make it look even more like a mini-G
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  47. #147
    The last defender has been outdated for decades and needed to be chucked. The new defender seems to be capable, but looks a bit pricey for it's traditional market.

    The people who used to buy defenders for work have been using Mitsubishi and Toyotas for years and will never go back to LR st this price point.

    Given LR can't make a car to compete in the £20k market, for the defender to actually have a chance of existing, it needed to make it a more luxurious car to appeal to those who can afford it.

    It might be disappointing for the weekend walt, but they aren't a big enough community to have an entire production line for themselves.

  48. #148
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Not progress really, at all.
    Loads of companies can do a 4x4 utility with considerable speed, capability and comfort at about £28k.
    JLR apparently can not.
    So they bloat the new Defender with all sorts of stuff it doesn't need, and hey presto, they end up with exactly the same specification as they already make, which is not intended for the utility market, as it is too expensive.

    But they have called it a Defender, so it has to look utilitarian. Ao they pitch it at the Walt market, the people who want to look tough but can afford not to actually get dirty (or only do so by choice).

    It's a roleplaying vehicle. A pretend utility for wealthy people.

    I have no problem with them doing this, but like I said before, I fail to see how this increases their market share. It nicks sales off themselves, not anyone else. And ultimately, that doesn't help the company.

    D
    Progress, as in it will undoubtedly be quieter, nicer to drive and more capable than the old Defender.

    I find it strange that you refer to it as a 'Walt' vehicle. A title I would say fitted the old Defender better, with all the poseurs with snorkels and winches on their Lara Croft lookalikes who never go further than the pub or Tescos. Now thats real role playing. Almost as good as the 4x4 double cab crowd with big shiny roll bars and posh wheels. (although I quite like them myself)
    What sort of stuff would you say it is 'bloated' with that it doesn't need? Air con, sat nav, reversing camera perhaps?

    As for a pretend utility for wealthy people, the G Wagen must surely take that title!
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  49. #149
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    The last defender has been outdated for decades and needed to be chucked. The new defender seems to be capable, but looks a bit pricey for it's traditional market.

    The people who used to buy defenders for work have been using Mitsubishi and Toyotas for years and will never go back to LR st this price point.

    Given LR can't make a car to compete in the £20k market, for the defender to actually have a chance of existing, it needed to make it a more luxurious car to appeal to those who can afford it.

    It might be disappointing for the weekend walt, but they aren't a big enough community to have an entire production line for themselves.
    I think the point made earlier is that there is hardly any competition at the new price point other than LRs. There is no denying that those who used one for work have probably moved on anyway, and would not come back at this price. There is no denying either that the traditional Defender, while immensely capable, was a relic of a bygone age.

    The question is: What should LR have done?
    - Let the Defender die and not replace it (cue: Much lament)
    - Build one that would fit in the £20K price bracket (cue: LR can't compete with £20K utilitarian at twice the price)
    - Build the Def as it is, and continue to move upward the Disco and RR

    There is already a clash within their range between Discos and RR so they may be very good at making off roaders but no so good at creating a range (lame pun intended)
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  50. #150
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    Isnít Suzuki pulling the Jimny from sale due to the high emissions?

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