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Thread: Need some legal help, general help

  1. #1

    Need some legal help, general help

    Hi guys, so, here is the scoop. A long time back i arranged and paid for a deal that involved a lot of jewellery and a Pepsi for me. All was good, jewellery collected and when the Pepsi arrived it was kept in the safe as in the next few week another watch I ordered was to arrive and Iíd collect both.


    Well now the story gets fun. Other watch doesnít arrive, well it does but itís allocated to someone else, and my usual contact leaves the business.... so Iím left. I speak to the team allís well but on trying to collect the watch thats been kept for me and Iíd paid for (jewellery was collected before) they are not keen and say no, want to refund me.

    What can it do? They forced me to a refund but surely that watch was already mine?

    Legal help needed please.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Kash; 24th August 2019 at 09:10.

  2. #2
    I'm not sure you'd have a leg to stand on given they're giving you your money back for what they can no longer provide.

    I'd push for a return and refund on the jewellery just to stick them at their own game.

  3. #3
    Well that have the watch they kept it waiting for me to collect. When I did thatís when they said no. So either they unwind the whole deal or deliver what Iíve paid for and they had in the safe.

    Thatís my point. The watch was in their safe for 8 weeks and they have confirmed it was there

  4. #4
    Craftsman
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    Do you have a receipt for it? If so, itís legally yours and they cannot force a refund.

    If they wonít give it to you, thatís basically theft.

    Speak to branch manager first, then maybe a solicitors letter or call police.


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  5. #5
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    The 'jewellery' wasn't a Lange watch by any chance? Asking for a friend.
    Who not knows how to hit the male on the hat should not hit at all.

  6. #6
    Sue them in the Small Claims Track for specific performance of the contract that you entered into regards the Pepsi.

    You entered into a contract and provided consideration for the watch. They havenít provided it.

    Send them a letter asking them for their address for service of legal or whether they wish to nominate solicitors to accept service on their behalf. Also, advise them that this is your formal notice of your intention to issue legal proceedings if the matter isnít resolved within x number of days in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The 'jewellery' wasn't a Lange watch by any chance? Asking for a friend.
    Erm no, Itís stuff a lady wears, you know in her ears or round her neck.

  8. #8
    If I read it right you’ve bought and paid for jewellery and the elusive Pepsi which they said was yours, and for whatever reason you didn’t collect for 2 weeks, but on trying to collect they said you now can’t have the pepsi and are offering to refund you that part of the sale?

    I don’t know if that’s truly legal or not, but It doesn’t sound fair and doesn’t sound like they ever had the Pepsi to sell you. I would want a full refund on the jewellery too and would never deal with them again. If they do have the Pepsi and won’t let you have what you have paid for that’s on another level. I’m not sure even if they have it in the window and you’ve paid for it that they actually have to let you leave the shop with it. I believe selling it is at their discretion and if they offer you a refund (inc the jewellery) they are being lawful.
    Last edited by tz-uk73; 24th August 2019 at 08:16.

  9. #9
    Master
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    Did they give any reason for not wanting to sell you the Pepsi? Maybe worried about it being flipped?

    Strange behaviour thatís for sure.

  10. #10
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Two sides to every story, would be nice to have the other one as anything else is just speculation.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  11. #11
    My questions was more about legal grounds, not a story.

    They sold and took the money for jewellery and a watch. They had the watch for a few weeks as I couldnít pick it up, but now have refund the watch.

    Given I bought both can they force the refund?

    Thatís all.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Is there anything on paper to suggest that the completely separate deals were somehow linked? If not then it sounds like it was a gentlemanís handshake with someone who has no further say in the matter (and your Mrs gets some nice jewellery).

  13. #13
    I have the WhatsApp messages with the ad manager, who has now left

  14. #14
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Hi Kash

    hope your well

    I think if they had the watch they would let you have it, but they don't IMHO sold by one of the other team members, also the circumstances of 'his' departure might be interesting?.

    If they have taken all of the money and provided invoice / receipts then the goods are yours held by them until collection.

    poor form....ask for another to be sourced within xxxxx

    failing that a full refund but i suspect you would rather have the watch !

    reminds me of this case .

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/new...-sold-his-car/
    Last edited by TKH; 24th August 2019 at 09:37.

  15. #15
    Interesting read, thanks for the info, appreciate it

  16. #16
    Master
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    This made me think of a resent ph thread. A chap who agreed the sale of a car then backs out and sell to another buyer and is now facing action for Ďloss of bargainí.

    Iím not a solicitor, but after reading the thread it seems you could have a similar claim, it sounds like you would need to perchase an equivalent watch (I assume via gray channels) and then raise a claim for the difference in its price to your refund.

    Have a read and perhaps also talk to your legal cover provided on your home insurance?

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=10&t=1826988

  17. #17
    Journeyman
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    Sounds like they either don't have the watch or now that your contact has left, they've reprioritised the order of the waiting list (which would be very unfair to everyone waiting)

  18. #18
    Master
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    Another thought, before starting any action, including the notice prior to action. Iíd consider making a sar for any and all materials relating to your perchase.

    It might throw up some more material for any claim, if not it might just rattle them a bit more, either way if you do it after commencing proceedings they have more scope to refuse / retain materials.

  19. #19
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Another thought, before starting any action, including the notice prior to action. I’d consider making a sar for any and all materials relating to your perchase.

    It might throw up some more material for any claim, if not it might just rattle them a bit more, either way if you do it after commencing proceedings they have more scope to refuse / retain materials.
    Good idea. This sort of thing won't prejudice any later action but it might be informative. It would be especially informative if they claim to have no records when you have evidence that they must have records.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 24th August 2019 at 13:42.

  20. #20
    Sounds good but whatís a sar?

    Many thanks for the advice

  21. #21
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    This made me think of a resent ph thread. A chap who agreed the sale of a car then backs out and sell to another buyer and is now facing action for Ďloss of bargainí.

    Iím not a solicitor, but after reading the thread it seems you could have a similar claim, it sounds like you would need to perchase an equivalent watch (I assume via gray channels) and then raise a claim for the difference in its price to your refund.

    Have a read and perhaps also talk to your legal cover provided on your home insurance?

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...f=10&t=1826988
    I was going to post exactly the same thing!

    OP: time for paid legal advice. Find out how much an equivalent watch will cost to source & you have some idea of how much your "loss of bargain" is. Maybe your dealer will change their mind when faced with a claim for a few thousand pounds.

  22. #22
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Sounds good but whatís a sar?

    Many thanks for the advice
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  23. #23
    Master
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    It allows you access to your personal digital information.

    In your case email/text/WhatsApp records to/from/mentioning you relating to the aborted sale.

    https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ght-of-access/

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    I was going to post exactly the same thing!

    OP: time for paid legal advice. Find out how much an equivalent watch will cost to source & you have some idea of how much your "loss of bargain" is. Maybe your dealer will change their mind when faced with a claim for a few thousand pounds.
    Personally I’d say the time has passed as they have already refunded and presumably sold the watch in question.

    Though I suppose you could look at the price difference and include that in the letter before action, I have a suspicion that the AD will not take the matter seriously until a claim is lodged. That said I would ask for them to confirm where the letter before action should be sent and allow 14 rather than the minimum 7 days in case there legal dept are inclined to consider it.

    All obviously after the sar process.

    I suspect this will take a few months minimum to resolve.

  25. #25
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Sounds good but whatís a sar?

    Many thanks for the advice
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  26. #26
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Personally Iíd say the time has passed as they have already refunded and presumably sold the watch in question.

    Though I suppose you could look at the price difference and include that in the letter before action, I have a suspicion that the AD will not take the matter seriously until a claim is lodged. That said I would ask for them to confirm where the letter before action should be sent and allow 14 rather than the minimum 7 days in case there legal dept are inclined to consider it.

    All obviously after the sar process.

    I suspect this will take a few months minimum to resolve.
    This situation is slightly different though in that since it's a brand new watch from the current range (I think) then the dealer could eventually source/be allocated one & rectify the breach of the original contract. It's not like buying a second hand car where the dealer doesn't have another exact same model to hand.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    This situation is slightly different though in that since it's a brand new watch from the current range (I think) then the dealer could eventually source/be allocated one & rectify the breach of the original contract. It's not like buying a second hand car where the dealer doesn't have another exact same model to hand.
    I get your point and Kash is kiddy that will know for sure but the fact that they have refused to deliver the item in stock and refunded his payment and other points he makes suggest that itís a final offer from the AD.

    Also the open ended timeframe on sourcing a replacement is an unfavourable and unfair expectation should the AD wish to resolve the situation.

    Given the unlikelihood of sourcing a new replacement from another AD in a reasonable timeframe you would have to look at the gray market for a UK bnib alternative should you be keen to own one. If you are not keen enough to own one I believe this impacts (but not rule out) your chance of a successful case.

  28. #28
    Just out of interest, when I bought my SD43 I had to sign an agreement not to sell for a year.....
    Iím not sure if this is now commonplace but if the OP did similar for the Hulks, Sdís And GMTís that were sold at a week old, I imagine the AD may have some redress?
    As Verv has pointed out elsewhere, Rolex are ďon itĒ these days and will have a shrewd idea where the grey stock is coming from.
    OP has , I would say a pretty unique buying profile (and some amazing watches) and I donít think it would take a genius to figure out where some pieces have come from and ended up.

  29. #29
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I get your point and Kash is kiddy that will know for sure but the fact that they have refused to deliver the item in stock and refunded his payment and other points he makes suggest that itís a final offer from the AD.

    Also the open ended timeframe on sourcing a replacement is an unfavourable and unfair expectation should the AD wish to resolve the situation.

    Given the unlikelihood of sourcing a new replacement from another AD in a reasonable timeframe you would have to look at the gray market for a UK bnib alternative should you be keen to own one. If you are not keen enough to own one I believe this impacts (but not rule out) your chance of a successful case.
    Well as the PH thread shows non-laywers are spectacularly bad at knowing the law but the AD would seem to be in breach of the original contract & simply refunding doesn't resolve that breach if the buyer didn't agree to it. They entered into the contract & payment was made & presumably have left themselves open to proceedings for breach of contract.

    Equally the OP has suffered a loss of benefit because he will have to buy on the grey market at a higher price but of course he may well have to do so in order to sue for loss of benefit. However if a solictor sends a letter indicating that's the route he is going to go then the AD might decide to cough up a watch rather than X thousand pounds plus legal fees.

  30. #30
    Thank you all for the comments and pms, I really appreciate the feedback and Iíll have a think and will speak to a professional to kick things off.

    Thanks again tz

  31. #31
    Master Dan83bz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Thank you all for the comments and pms, I really appreciate the feedback and Iíll have a think and will speak to a professional to kick things off.

    Thanks again tz
    Curious how the whole story ended?

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Thank you all for the comments and pms, I really appreciate the feedback and Iíll have a think and will speak to a professional to kick things off.

    Thanks again tz
    Good luck - there are lots of legal cases where a sale was agreed, and then provided to another customer. I'm sure Nigel Mansel hsd to source a sought after Ferrari when he sold one to a second customer after agreeing the sale with the first.
    It's just a matter of time...

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