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Thread: PayPal friends and family help required

  1. #1
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    PayPal friends and family help required

    Advice from the forum experts gladly welcome.

    I have been selling a watch on eBay that finished at the beginning of the week. The next day someone contacted me about the watch and offered 6k which was nearly the asking price. I am due to meet him tonight, I wanted payment via bank transfer before the meet up. Iíve sent him a copy of my driving license and proof of address. I have asked for the same so far he has only sent a copy of a debit card showing his name.

    He sent me his insta account and asked if I was on insta or omega forums. Instagram shows he is into watches but obviously not much else.

    He wants to do a transfer via friends and family I then withdraw the funds to my bank account he then takes the watch is his suggestion.

    Wasnít my idea and Iím not sure how safe this is?

    As I type this I feel like listing the watch again and let him pay through eBay and swallow the £200 PayPal fee.

    Thanks for any advice.

  2. #2
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    Bacs transfer all day long.

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  3. #3
    No. He has no benefit in using friends and family. Its fee free for him either way... So why insist on it?

    Sell and receive payment via eBay and paypal only, or lose your seller protection.

  4. #4
    Master geran's Avatar
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    No expert, but if you are meeting up with the potential buyer, why cant he do a bank transfer there and then when he is happy with the goods.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Coronet king View Post
    Advice from the forum experts gladly welcome.

    I have been selling a watch on eBay that finished at the beginning of the week. The next day someone contacted me about the watch and offered 6k which was nearly the asking price. I am due to meet him tonight, I wanted payment via bank transfer before the meet up. Iíve sent him a copy of my driving license and proof of address. I have asked for the same so far he has only sent a copy of a debit card showing his name.

    He sent me his insta account and asked if I was on insta or omega forums. Instagram shows he is into watches but obviously not much else.

    He wants to do a transfer via friends and family I then withdraw the funds to my bank account he then takes the watch is his suggestion.

    Wasnít my idea and Iím not sure how safe this is?

    As I type this I feel like listing the watch again and let him pay through eBay and swallow the £200 PayPal fee.

    Thanks for any advice.
    Be very, very careful with PayPal. They appear to always side with the buyer in a dispute.

    I recently sold something on eBay and was paid via PayPal. The buyer lived fairly close so I did him a favour by taking it round to his house that evening. He took the item, was happy with it and shook my hand. Then he put in a claim via PayPal claiming it was not delivered and because I had no proof of delivery they took the money from my account and refunded him. His word against mine but they sided entirely with him. Lesson learned and thankfully not that much money involved.

    PayPal can retract the transaction even if youíve withdrawn the money from the account, leaving you with a negative PayPal balance which they will hound you to bring back to zero. They will take legal action if you donít.

  6. #6
    Could be a scam. The scammers pay you out of a hacked PayPal account and the money will go into your account so all looks good. A few days later the person who has had his account hacked notices a huge payment leaving his bank account and contacts PayPal, who ultimately agree that his account was indeed hacked and they reverse the payment.

    You are left with no Watch or money.

    I always put that I will only ship to the registered PayPal address of the buyer - no exceptions.

    If the guy genuinely has the money, it makes no difference to him between PP and a BT - if he is a scammer the BT is of little use to him.

    Be careful.

  7. #7
    With PayPal normal he can raise a claim after if there is any problem, but with FandF he canít the money is sent and there is no recall. As itís not to buy anything itís just a way to send money fee free, I would suspect he does not have the cash and is using a credit card to buy the watch.

    Double check but I think you are safer the way he suggests.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
    Be very, very careful with PayPal. They appear to always side with the buyer in a dispute.

    I recently sold something on eBay and was paid via PayPal. The buyer lived fairly close so I did him a favour by taking it round to his house that evening. He took the item, was happy with it and shook my hand. Then he put in a claim via PayPal claiming it was not delivered and because I had no proof of delivery they took the money from my account and refunded him. His word against mine but they sided entirely with him. Lesson learned and thankfully not that much money involved.

    PayPal can retract the transaction even if youíve withdrawn the money from the account, leaving you with a negative PayPal balance which they will hound you to bring back to zero. They will take legal action if you donít.
    Iíve had PayPal take money back for something I sold on a eBay weeks later due to the buyer committing fraud. I got the money back eventually but hassle.
    Friends and family offers no protection though although reading online the can try a fraudulent claim but not so easy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Could be a scam. The scammers pay you out of a hacked PayPal account and the money will go into your account so all looks good. A few days later the person who has had his account hacked notices a huge payment leaving his bank account and contacts PayPal, who ultimately agree that his account was indeed hacked and they reverse the payment.

    You are left with no Watch or money.

    I always put that I will only ship to the registered PayPal address of the buyer - no exceptions.

    If the guy genuinely has the money, it makes no difference to him between PP and a BT - if he is a scammer the BT is of little use to him.

    Be careful.
    Thanks Ken (wayne🤣). On the face of it he looks very cautious, his PayPal details match his debit card and his address looks like he can afford the watch with no trouble. Too many orange flags I feel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
    Be very, very careful with PayPal. They appear to always side with the buyer in a dispute.

    I recently sold something on eBay and was paid via PayPal. The buyer lived fairly close so I did him a favour by taking it round to his house that evening. He took the item, was happy with it and shook my hand. Then he put in a claim via PayPal claiming it was not delivered and because I had no proof of delivery they took the money from my account and refunded him. His word against mine but they sided entirely with him. Lesson learned and thankfully not that much money involved.

    PayPal can retract the transaction even if youíve withdrawn the money from the account, leaving you with a negative PayPal balance which they will hound you to bring back to zero. They will take legal action if you donít.
    Are you making a return visit ?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by geran View Post
    Are you making a return visit ?
    Lol. Knock knock.

  12. #12
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    6k! Bank transfer all the way imo.

  13. #13
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    The most basic scam would be if he would have a credit card linked to his PayPal account. He could then easily make a claim of unauthorized use through his CC company and PP would refund. I’m not sure how it would be with a debit card but I’m sure there are scams available.

    In any case PP friends and family will incur fees for him, so there are no good reasons for him to want PP. I would never agree to PP in those circumstances.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Could be a scam. The scammers pay you out of a hacked PayPal account and the money will go into your account so all looks good. A few days later the person who has had his account hacked notices a huge payment leaving his bank account and contacts PayPal, who ultimately agree that his account was indeed hacked and they reverse the payment.

    You are left with no Watch or money.

    I always put that I will only ship to the registered PayPal address of the buyer - no exceptions.

    If the guy genuinely has the money, it makes no difference to him between PP and a BT - if he is a scammer the BT is of little use to him.

    Be careful.
    This, every day of the week. I was on the receiving end of such a scam and it boils my p**s thinking about it a number of years later. The buyer is suggesting F&F to give you more peace of mind, however the account will still be hacked and you will still lose your money. 100%.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FazerBoy View Post
    Be very, very careful with PayPal. They appear to always side with the buyer in a dispute.

    I recently sold something on eBay and was paid via PayPal. The buyer lived fairly close so I did him a favour by taking it round to his house that evening. He took the item, was happy with it and shook my hand. Then he put in a claim via PayPal claiming it was not delivered and because I had no proof of delivery they took the money from my account and refunded him. His word against mine but they sided entirely with him. Lesson learned and thankfully not that much money involved.

    PayPal can retract the transaction even if youíve withdrawn the money from the account, leaving you with a negative PayPal balance which they will hound you to bring back to zero. They will take legal action if you donít.
    The balls of the guy when you went to his house! The temptations that would follow...

    On a sidenote I have bought a few watches and even an iPad here very recently using PayPal, one was even for a Rolex Explorer which isn't an insignificant amount of money. I paid using a cashback credit card linked to my PayPal which got me 1.25% back so that was my motivation. The sellers were completely ok with this.

    I would accept payment the same way from a trusted member but from a message on eBay with an Instagram profile as a reference not a chance in hell. Never.

  16. #16
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    He has sent pictures of 2 bank cards now both the same name and both opened a month ago, I think my gut is telling me to avoid. Iíve tried to do a reverse image search for his Instagram photos on my iPad but no luck.

    I havenít heard back from him yet! ďNo offence but 2 pieces of plastic proves nothingĒ

  17. #17
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    Just to play devil's advocate, some bank accounts only allow a maximum of about £500 to a new payee on mobile apps. When I was in London and needed to do a transfer to a member it entailed an hours walk to the bank and back. Because of this, I'd initially asked for PayPal if possible.

  18. #18
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronet king View Post
    He has sent pictures of 2 bank cards now both the same name and both opened a month ago, I think my gut is telling me to avoid. Iíve tried to do a reverse image search for his Instagram photos on my iPad but no luck.

    I havenít heard back from him yet! ďNo offence but 2 pieces of plastic proves nothingĒ
    My gut would tell me they're two brand new bank cards intercepted in the post and I'd rather sell it for less to someone else.

    Saying that you send me a load of money before leaving the house not too long ago!

  19. #19
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    It's quite simple really, you are the seller, he's the buyer, you determine how you get paid, otherwise you keep the watch, simples.

  20. #20
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    If in doubt leave it out....... And in this instance you definitely seem doubtful.

    Good old fashioned cash into the bank is the best solution, meet at your branch, let him check the watch and pay the cash into your account. If the cash is all kosher then give him the watch.

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  21. #21
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    Your sale Your rules!!!!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Coronet king View Post
    He has sent pictures of 2 bank cards now both the same name and both opened a month ago, I think my gut is telling me to avoid. Iíve tried to do a reverse image search for his Instagram photos on my iPad but no luck.

    I havenít heard back from him yet! ďNo offence but 2 pieces of plastic proves nothingĒ
    Cancel the transaction if it happened, otherwise just cancel the listing, relisted it today on the £1 offer and tell him that you are happy to deal normally through e-bay following their rules. Take the PayPal fees on the chin, but at least you won't get ripped off.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    The balls of the guy when you went to his house! The temptations that would follow...
    Never fear, I will in due course succumb to temptation! Just want to leave enough time to pass so that itís not absolutely obvious who has slashed his tyres...

  24. #24
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    Do not do it, you have no protection with friends and family, he can just recall the money even after you have withdrawn

    And even paying the fee wonít help you unless you deliver via a signed for delivery service




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  25. #25
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    Bank transfer! BT or no deal, the only way you are safe.

    IF he has the funds then he can pay you by BT, if he will not then do not just walk, RUN!

    If you try to be agreeable and end up losing both the watch and the payment then it will be a sour cloud in your life forever.

    I donít care how many pics of debit cards he has, just donít take the risk and why the hell should you?

  26. #26
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    That amount of stick to either full eBay listing and swallow the fee or bank transfer as they are so many scams out there nowadays


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  27. #27
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Could be a scam. The scammers pay you out of a hacked PayPal account and the money will go into your account so all looks good. A few days later the person who has had his account hacked notices a huge payment leaving his bank account and contacts PayPal, who ultimately agree that his account was indeed hacked and they reverse the payment.

    You are left with no Watch or money.

    I always put that I will only ship to the registered PayPal address of the buyer - no exceptions.

    If the guy genuinely has the money, it makes no difference to him between PP and a BT - if he is a scammer the BT is of little use to him.

    Be careful.
    This is your biggest risk

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate, some bank accounts only allow a maximum of about £500 to a new payee on mobile apps. When I was in London and needed to do a transfer to a member it entailed an hours walk to the bank and back. Because of this, I'd initially asked for PayPal if possible.
    What you do in that instance is to transfer £1 as an opening transaction just to get him into your payees list and then you will be able to transfer larger amounts with no problem.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3w3ll3r View Post
    Do not do it, you have no protection with friends and family, he can just recall the money even after you have withdrawn

    And even paying the fee wonít help you unless you deliver via a signed for delivery service




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Is that really true, surely he is the one with no protection, my understanding is that if you pay by F&F you can not retrieve the money?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjkerfoot View Post
    What you do in that instance is to transfer £1 as an opening transaction just to get him into your payees list and then you will be able to transfer larger amounts with no problem.
    Not necessarily, in some instances this triggers fraud systems as it matches the test a small transaction, leading to a larger fraudulent transaction behaviour.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Not necessarily, in some instances this triggers fraud systems as it matches the test a small transaction, leading to a larger fraudulent transaction behaviour.
    Good point.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Not necessarily, in some instances this triggers fraud systems as it matches the test a small transaction, leading to a larger fraudulent transaction behaviour.
    Bought a car once by transferring £1 first. When I transferred the rest it went through every fraud check possible and took nearly 6 hours to be approved. Apparently fraudsters often do a very small amount and if that works raid the rest of the account. Absolute nightmare.

  34. #34
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    As has been said already, if he wants the watch that bad he'll pay on your terms, if not, it's goodbye!

  35. #35
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    How much is the watch worth, is the offered amount generous, is it a hard to get hold of watch?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAmATeaf View Post
    How much is the watch worth, is the offered amount generous, is it a hard to get hold of watch?
    About £6k if he expected to pay £200 PP fees?


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  37. #37
    So OP, what was the outcome here?

    One thing you can be sure of, if you relist it on eBay at £6k and he doesn’t buy it then he probably was planning to scam you...
    Last edited by FazerBoy; 24th August 2019 at 19:04.

  38. #38
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    I do know of someone that received a F&F payment for PayPal to take it back.

    Apparently they had sold computer hw on a forum, the transaction was funded by a skimmed card, PayPal somehow knew it was for G&S, that's against the then ToS agreement, so the seller lost the monies.

    This was a good 18 months ago & PayPal are constantly updating their ToS, it may no longer apply.

    Anyhew, completely agree with the earlier posts, your sale, your rules. If they are a watch collector true to their insta profile, it is not their first rodeo & shouldnt be a problem to BT if they really want the piece.



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  39. #39
    Master Guz's Avatar
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    I got scammed out of £30 on the watch forum paying a Ďtrusted memberí using PayPal family and friends as he requested. He deleted his add from the forum and then disappeared, this despite a few of the other members claiming he was a good guy.

    Not a big amount of money admittedly, but a big lesson learned to stay away from family and friends. A year later and it still annoys me, I wouldnít be gambling with £6000.

    Good luck and hope it turns out well.

  40. #40
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    I will update this thread late next week when Iíve sorted bits out, but I think Wallasey runner was spot on with his reply. 👍

  41. #41
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    In the mean time letís just say if anybody contacts you after the item has ended and shown no interest before donít bother replying.

  42. #42
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    I donít wish to worry you but you said youíve sent a copy of your driving license and proof of address. Thatís very valuable data to a fraudster. I hope you obscured some of the details?

    Keep an eye on your credit report for any newly opened accounts.

  43. #43
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    Go with your gut feeling on this and donít sell. Every scammer has a great reason why they canít do a BT


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  44. #44
    Craftsman Crispin's Avatar
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    I would not be doing any form of Paypal without evidence of posting and receipt and in this case bank transfer if it is outdside of ebay rules

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  45. #45
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    If thereís a 1% risk at 6k avoid.

    You could list item here ? .....take a torrent of abuse from people with no interest in buying it (hehe)...but eventually sell it and have a smooth transaction...

    Or ask your buyer to bring cash if he wonít do BT itís still legal tender but pain in neck checking notes and counting in Starbucks.

    As Ken says cancel re-list.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    I donít wish to worry you but you said youíve sent a copy of your driving license and proof of address. Thatís very valuable data to a fraudster. I hope you obscured some of the details?

    Keep an eye on your credit report for any newly opened accounts.
    Just done 👍

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    I donít wish to worry you but you said youíve sent a copy of your driving license and proof of address. Thatís very valuable data to a fraudster. I hope you obscured some of the details?

    Keep an eye on your credit report for any newly opened accounts.
    Luckily we had moved a few weeks ago so itís an old address, but yes will keep an eye. Thanks

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