Reply With QuoteYou've got me wondering - I have never even thought about this!
I declare these on my insurance but other than perhaps a few photos I often have no proof I actually own the watch I say I do.
I’ve had a good search through the forum and can’t find any matches to my particular query so hoping someone can help out. Apologies if this has been covered before!
I’m looking for a watch that costs lets say 10-12k at current market value. If I find that watch via a WTB or via SC how would I “prove” that I owned it for insurance purposes? An original sales receipt I guess would help...but I wouldn’t be the original purchaser.
Do insurance companies generally accept a personal (i.e. non trader) receipt or do you then need to get an independent valuation done ASAP? My insurers are unhelpfully vague...
What do people do in these circumstances? I do plan on insuring the watch on my contents policy and I’d rather pick up what I’m after privately (here ideally) if possible; but very aware I have zero experience in this area - all my previous purchases have been invoiced through dealers etc. with a clear ownership paper trail to me.
Thanks!
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You've got me wondering - I have never even thought about this!
I declare these on my insurance but other than perhaps a few photos I often have no proof I actually own the watch I say I do.
Different companies have different rules, so you need to speak to your own insurer.
My insurer will agree a value per individual watch up to £15K per watch and it has no interest in receipts from private sellers.
They insist on a "qualified" value from a recognised expert such as an AD or well respected jeweller for any watch over £15K.
However this is of no use to you.
To be honest, you are only going to get replies from people based on what their own insurers insist on and it varies wildly.
A Bill of Sale would be sufficient.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
As MickP says, check with your insurers (£10K may be too much for an individual item on household insurance).
My dad worked in General Insurance most of his working life and I know that fraud was/is rife.
A scribbled receipt for a price from some unknown individual might be OK for a £1000 watch, but I can't imagine it being acceptable for a £10K one - I'd expect you would need a documented valuation from a recognised jeweller in the absence of an original receipt.
That would cover proof of 'value' - Proof of ownership? Tricky - Who's to say you didn't sell the watch down the pub for half its face value and then add it to your insurance claim?
Again, this will come down to the insurer.
M
They will accept that you own the watch but different insurance companies want different methods of valuation. The value on a bill of sale may or may not be accepted. The OP needs to contact his insurer on this.Originally Posted by ralphy
Thanks for all your replies - I’ll try my insurer again (M&S) I suspect I ran up against someone who didn’t understand what I was asking initially.
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Why insure luxury toys? The chance of theft or loss is far, far, smaller than people imagine, and you don’t need them anyway. I’ve followed this principle for decades, saved a small fortune on insurance charges.
I speak as someone who routinely wears gold watches. Uninsured. Of course it could all go wrong, but then I could also be run-over by a bus, get a fatal illness or fall in love with the wrong woman......
Last edited by paskinner; 22nd August 2019 at 12:01.
So you don’t have home contents insurance?
I'm with M&S as well. What exactly was your question to them that they couldn't answer?
No . If something gets damaged/stolen I replace it. I insure the property, because I couldn’t afford to replace it, and my car, because it’s required by law...and sensible because of unlimited potential claims.
But just ‘stuff’....no, never.
Incidentally, I just sold a 9.5k watch in SC; the buyer said he wasn’t worried about insurance (RMSD); so I’m not alone.
I asked about what documentation they would require if I needed to make a claim for a watch I had bought privately and not retail. Went in circles trying to explain it might not have been bought in a shop and gave up!
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Last edited by Megatron; 22nd August 2019 at 13:51.
Where have I heard that before??
Hmmm, from you several times. Actually every time the word insurance is mentioned.
I also have no insurance on my home contents, including the watches.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Bill of sale containing name address and watch details will do for 3 years and from then an up to date valuation cert with name, address, and watch details every 3 years IIRC for insurance.
Number of years may vary but mine is 3.
Well each to their own on insuring or not but for me its down to would it involve hardship to replace them. Im in a situation that whilst I have some nice watches I've had to work and save for them so yes they are covered.
Does it cost a lot ?
The last time I added them to my house insurance and the cost was negligible so all is good.
To the OP though don't be afraid to do something simple like a photo of you with the watch and then email that to yourself . Whilst not 100% its a good way of showing you have that watch on and at a date they is provable. That and a pic of the serial number with your passport beside .
You guys with no home contents insurance, what would you do if your house burnt down?
Are you in the lucky position of being able to replace everything from your own resources within a short timescale in order to carry on without disruption?
You don't need it, you still live with your mum.
I think if we should add up the cost of ones house contents with a view to replacement then it might shock .....
Depends on the company.
I bought a Daytona in a private deal. The seller gave me a hand written receipt on a bit of paper.
My insurance company has accepted that I have bought it because I have declared the serial number backed up with pics. However the price on the receipt is valueless to them, they insist on a formal valuation and that started the day I bought it. This has to be repeated annually.
Your insurance company may give 3 years, mine gave none. That is why I keep saying that the OP needs to go direct to his insurance company and seek the relevant details. Our details are irrelevant.
I'll start by saying that I insure jewellery and jewellers for a living.
Proof of ownership is never actually defined exactly what that is, which is the conundrum. To a normal person, it would be a receipt from a shop or a valuation, to a WIS, it's not that straight-forward.
Personally I keep a running spreadsheet of my current watches (including purchase price, serial number and where I've sourced it from) and also ones that I've sold. I also keep copies of PM's, emails and Whatsapp messages along with taking photos of every watch I have. You can also use your Paypal or banking history to show a payment was made and even more kudos to you if it references the watch you're buying. It proves ownership beyond reasonable doubt.
I have often wondered about getting a signed receipt but what would that prove in reality? If you wanted to commit fraud, that piece of paper could have been cobbled together at any point in time and doesn't really prove anything.
As for value, that's down to what your policy says but I note that you haven't asked that question.
Steve
Last edited by SteveHarris; 22nd August 2019 at 14:13.
I am with LV who have never asked for any proof of purchase before insuring my watches... approximately £14 per month for 3 watches with a total value of £24000...cover 60 days worldwide etc.
However the crunch comes when you or if you make a claim.
Always take numerous photos including serial number etc just in case.
I agree. If you ever do a complete contents inventory, and work out replacement costs, it can be very frightening. It's easy to include the big things (watches, TV, furniture, etc) but it's all the small stuff that you have around your house that really adds up.
(In my case, I'd never really thought about clothes as having any real "value", until I started to work out how many shirts, jumpers, etc I own and what the replacement cost would be if I had to buy them all over again!)
I have the most basic level of home insurance, both building and contents, with a big excess. Really only need cover if the place burns to the ground. I don't do expensive tech and the like, and with 3 kids under 8 I totally DON'T do expensive furniture.
You pay your money and you take your choice.
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You should get a photograph of you holding the watch, along with the papers if possible.
i've always insured my watches regardless of value-never more than £6k each though-I unfortunately have made two claims in14 years, I was not asked for proof of ownership on either claim merely a valuation letter from an AD for the brand, this of course may change on the value of the item in the claim. Maybe I was lucky?
I wonder if that would have been an interesting thread if the watch had gone astray.
Did you get proof of posting at least?
I can't recall ever claiming on my household insurance, but in the grand scheme of things, the peace of mind knowing that it's covered is worth the small amount it costs (It would take a long time to cover the loss of a 9.5K watch by skipping the insurance premium...)
M
Last edited by snowman; 22nd August 2019 at 16:11.
Your point about 'don't have luxuries if you can't afford to replace them' I understand but I'm definitely in favour insuring home contents however rare incidents may occur. Some people in Yorkshire Dales last month have lost everything in their homes due to flooding, unbelievably rare given that it was summer, and they weren't on the banks of the river, yet these things can and do happen.
In 2000 many of my friends were flooded out when the Ouse burst it's bank in York. That's not uncommon if you know the city, but in 2000 water reached homes well away from the water's edge.
Ultimately many of us could afford to replace a watch, or laptop if stolen, but when everything you own goes at once, insurance is worth having.
I could replace everything vital immediately. As to watches: are they important to carry on without disruption? Not for me.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I insure my watches.
I work in an industry that makes me a target for having them grabbed off my wrist or during a robbery.
I can afford to replace them, but that would sting more than paying an extra couple of quid a month to insure them on my contents as walkabout items.
Dont insure them because don't have them if you can afford to lose them argument is just posing imo.
I,too, insure my watches on an all risks basis. For the minimal sum required its a no brainer imo.
What I can’t get my head around is having no home contents insurance whatsoever. That seems a high risk strategy to me as total loss is likely to represent a substantial sum indeed.
Horses for courses. I have a generally critical view on insurance, my point is that most people over-insure.
Now I am aware that I probably under-insure as the value of my watches has certainly crossed a threshold were I would call the risk of losing them a tail risk which makes it worth considering insurance. I even looked at insurance, but they attached onerous condictions in terms of additional security (certified alarm, bigger safe) to their suggested policy, so I decided to skip it and look into reducing the collection instead. Which was a year ago, and I haven't really done anything about it. I think more than half of my watches haven't seen daylight in at least a year, so selling some would make sense - I just can't decide where to start.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It's very "considerably richer than you".
Got nothing to do with it.
I just don't believe that certain risk are worth insuring. Replacing my watches would certainly hurt, but the likelihood of it happening is so low and the cost of insuring so high that it just doesn't make sense to me. As I said, the logical answer (at least for me) is to sell some watches. Just need to do it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Very true.
That would apply to many, many home owners that woefully underestimate the cost of replacing their contents should the worst happen....
I am am with m and s and did read the policy booklet before getting insured. There is 2 images from the policy booklet not really that clear about ownership.
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Last edited by bokbok; 22nd August 2019 at 19:53.
If a loss would have a serious impact on your lifestyle then insure against it. For most this would include fire insurance for their home. If a loss would have a minimal impact then don’t insure against it, e.g. if my TV breaks down I can afford to buy a new one so I don’t need an extended warranty.
The theory behind this philosophy is that every time you insure somebody needs to cover all of their admin. costs and is looking to make a profit. I need to accept this if I really need the protection but, otherwise, I might as well keep the premium and take the risk myself.
Where the threshold sits will vary depending upon your circumstances and your attitude to risk. Some people will need no insurance at all other than required by law.
I've found that photos have been accepted and failing that, get a VAT registered jeweller, preferably an AD, to value it.
That’s pretty much how I read it too; it’s all a little vague which made me a bit twitchy
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I include my driving’s license in photos although that only really shows i had that watch near my licence at some point!
Make sure the EXIF data isn’t removed on photos as they definitely check that as it contains lots of information about the photo eg date / time, even location if you have that enabled.
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EXIF can be easily edited/faked.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Bill of purchase and proof of payment
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