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Thread: Porschâh marketing

  1. #1
    Grand Master
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    Thumbs up Porschâh marketing

    Every other factory would have proudly recognised it but it´s German, Nazi linked and Porschâh depending on US posh buyers so no, it cannot be a Porsche.
    No such qualms when the 356 was introduced but in today´s world and the USA´s politically correct marked involved it´s a no go.
    How petty and sad; history is what it is.
    Anyway, the racing version of the pre beetle is no longer seen as convenient heritage, but whát an impressive car!

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/15/the-...a-porsche.html

    Just imagine it ever so slightly modernised, and I mean SLÍGHTLY (front/rear discs, 55 hp. or so 1300 cc. engine and some minor things) in kit car form so you can get it on a road permit. I would lóve to have/use it!!
    You even cannot sport a ´Porsche´ badge!! What´s not to love??

    https://www.autopista.es/clasicos/ar...a-sobre-ruedas
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 18th August 2019 at 10:43.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

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    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see your brand new with tags bargepole float by right after the swine which choked on the pearls.

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    Cilla, I cover this all at length in my book Adolf Hitler — His Only Crime Was To Love Too Much.

  4. #4
    Reading through Ferdinand's Wiki page is an impressive journey. In fact, there are a lot of engineering highlights that can be classified as 'Porsche's first'. That is: Ferdinand's first. His brilliance was one of the reasons he was hired by the Nazis to come up with the KdF Wagen. Air-cooled engine in the rear? Remember that Hans Ledwinka and Ferdinand Porsche 'looked over each other's shoulders when designing' (Porsche admitted that). The air-cooled Tatra with its rear-mounted engine was a big success.

    Word has it that Hitler was a great fan of the Tatra technology (rear-mounted engine, air-cooled and high-tech looking shape|). Remember that the Czech were widely known for their high-end industrial design. It also shows the Nazi regime's contradictory approach: the Bauhaus Movement was banned by the Germans, on the other hand: they hailed the Bauhaus influenced Tatra!

    Perhaps needless to say that the Tatra was popular among (high ranking) Nazi officers. The 'iffy' road-holding caused many accidents and in 2015 was revealed that the car killed more high-ranking Nazi officers than there were killed in combat!

    Tatra on the left...



    The Louwman Automuseum in Wassenaar (near The Hague) has one of Ledwinka's killing machines on display.

    (I can go on for hours about this subject...)
    Last edited by thieuster; 18th August 2019 at 11:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Reading through Ferdinand's Wiki page is an impressive journey. In fact, there are a lot of engineering highlights that can be classified as 'Porsche's first'. That is: Ferdinand's first. His brilliance was one of the reasons he was hired by the Nazis to come up with the KdF Wagen. Air cooled engine in the rear? Remember that Hans Ledwinka and Ferdinand Porsche 'looked over each others shoulders when designing' (Porsche admitted that). The aircooled Tatra with its rear-mounted engine was a big success.
    The Tye 64 sheet metal construction is reminiscent of Tatra aeronautic effort.

    Back to the hypocrisy: Though technically not a Porsche because is predates the founding of the firm, when Porsche sold T2222 to Mathé they were all too happy to stick their badge on it just like when they unveiled the 356 yet nów they don´t want to know?!

    And to the sad blokes harping about the Hitler link; how many Volkwagens have been sold to the UK? What do you do when you see one or an owner in the real world? Or what about a Fliegeruhr?
    Thanks for highlighting my pint.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    (I can go on for hours about this subject...)
    Please do.
    It´s history; no sujective values need be attached.

    There is a Tatra T87 in the Málaga museum. Mán what stúnning car! Aircooled V8 in the rear WOW!!
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Please do.
    It´s history; no sujective values need be attached.

    There is a Tatra T87 in the Málaga museum. Mán what stúnning car! Aircooled V8 in the rear WOW!!
    If you're ever in Czech Rep. or Brno specifically, its worth passing by Tatra's main museum in Koprivnice, during its heyday pretty much everybody in town was working in the factory making those awesome cars and trucks. I'm not big on vehicles in general but I've always been impressed as a small child seeing those big 8x8 trucks which were common occurence where I grew up, in various roles from fire trucks, to massive cranes or military trucks, so it was nice spending a couple of hours in the museum seeing their whole history, and yes, they do have plenty of passenger car models, I believe its the biggest museum by far of Tatra, as there's one here in Prague to but small in comparison. Czechs in general are very proud of the Tatra brand, and to this day they are involved in pretty much everything linked to transportation in CZ, from trains to trams, buses etc. Its a pity the passenger car brand was not revived somehow but I guess with Skoda being ever so popular here, it did not stand a chance.

    On this local forum link you can see some really cool pics of a beautifully restored T87:
    http://www.tatra-club.com/forum-tema/ecorra-tatra-12858



    Flying snow-mobile anyone? (aka Tatra Aero Luge)






    This last one was probably one of the ugliest Tatras ever made

    Last edited by Dan83bz; 18th August 2019 at 19:19.

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    Thank you.

    About the ugly, it is subjective.
    I mean; look at the Monte Carlo ralley entered one; the reliable aircooled V( in the back!
    In my eyes it has it´s very own cool factor.




    About the beetle Tatra launched a lawsuit against Ferdinand Porsche, but this was stopped when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. At the same time, Tatra was forced to stop producing the T97.
    The matter was re-opened after World War II and in 1965 Volkswagen paid Tatra 1,000,000 DM in an out of court settlement.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  9. #9
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    Whilst on the topic - The Porsche Type 64 - Top Gear.

    And how about Wernher von Braun who's previous background was certainly airbrushed out whilst the Americans raced to the moon.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    LOL. You are add veteran, teetotallar, vegetation, socialist (good at putting people to work), author, stateman, orator, dog lover, and part time drug user,

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  11. #11
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Least we forget that Ferdinand Porsche was the inventor of the first Hybrid car, and was voted Auotmotive Engineer of the century.

    Also that he died in 1951, a long time before Porsche became the company we know today.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


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    All leaving the question why Porsche publicly distances itself from the car they themselves presented to add heritage to the 356 when they launched it.
    The answer is political convenience concerning inconvenient history.
    Next step adding american heritage to it?
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  13. #13
    Not Sold! Reason: the auctioneer mixed up 'seventeen' and 'seventy' million... Weird. No sale. At first it looked as if it was sold, but latest has it that its not sold after all..

    Weird footage:




    And here some info a background: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uction-blunder
    Last edited by thieuster; 18th August 2019 at 22:01.

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    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    I was at the auction in Battersea a few years back when one of the two DB5s used in Goldfinger was sold. The auctioneer said he didn't know how to start it so asked for offers, someone said '10million' or whatever, he asked if they were serious, they said no, he asked for another offer, someone said 2.75million and that's what it sold for, no one else bid. After all they did building up the auction in all the press and then having that car on last of all, it was a complete mess of a sale.

    I wonder if sometimes they big it up so much the actual sale becomes a farce?
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  15. #15
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    All leaving the question why Porsche publicly distances itself from the car they themselves presented to add heritage to the 356 when they launched it.
    The answer is political convenience concerning inconvenient history.
    Next step adding american heritage to it?
    You are right it is an unfortunate and inconvenient history. So just like the skeletons hiding in VW, Auto Union, Mercedes, BMW, Krupp, AEG (who supplied electrical equipment for the concentration camps), IG Farben (who produced the gas), etc, etc cabinets. And we will not even talk about the use of forced labour.

    So a bit like Boeing not advertising the fact they built the B29 which dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan. Or NASA for air brushing out Von Braun (Uber Nazi) from their history. Actually as an aside I am surprised Omega hasn't done a Von Braun special edition of the moonwatch

    However just for clarity and perspective. Porsche was freed from prison in 48 and died in 51. During that time Porsche built approx 500 cars. Even the 550 Spyder was not released until 1954.

    But while you are throwing a bit of mud around why not include Ferrari, who made stuff for Mussolini's War effort during WW2. More inconvenience. Or that the prancing horse emblem was first used on Alfa Romeos, but later found themselves on the sides of Ferrari's, once Enzo set up his own company.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  16. #16
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post

    But while you are throwing a bit of mud around

    Weird perceptions you have. Seems you see black as white and white as black. Are you sure you tick the right box on a ballot ticket?
    I am simply accepting the fact of history without judgement; it´s the hypocrisy of the political correct marketing I object to.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  17. #17
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    a Von Braun special edition of the moonwatch
    If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see your brand new with tags bargepole float by right after the swine which choked on the pearls.

  18. #18
    Interesting background info from James May. Especially the first 21 minutes.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24ifq1

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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Interesting background info from James May. Especially the first 21 minutes.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x24ifq1
    Thank you.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  20. #20
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    Nice reading, always appreciate a bit of car history especially Porsche related.

    Will watch the video later...

  21. #21
    I always like Hugo Boss clothing, but can never get the SS uniform in my size.

  22. #22
    A little more history lesson than... Perhaps it's going to be too long to read, but I'm sure you'll let me know... (or you can skip it!)

    From 1918 on: The Bauhaus Movement.
    In a way, it's the Belgian painter Van der Velde who started it all. He was the head of an Art School in Weimar and he appointed Walter Gropius as the one who would be head of the school after Van der Velde's retirement. Walter Gropius wanted to incorporate art with design and building technology. It was the period after WWI and the Germans were short on everything. 'Lean and mean' when it came to building houses, designing furniture etc. Everything had to be easy to produce, were foldable and with a minimum of materials used. Strong shapes, repeating structures and furniture with light-but-strong framework started to be 'en vogue'. Remember that the Germans had a lot of knowledge about light-and-strong due to their aircraft and zeppelin industry! Not only German artists and architects were involved, also Dutch, Czech and French names appear on the list of people working and teaching at the Bauhaus.

    Ulitmately, the Bauhaus only lasted 14 yrs. When the Nazi's closed the Bauhaus, most (Jewish) attendants, artists and teacher went abroad. Often to the US where their designs were picked up quickly. Just look at the names of the architects that designed large parts of Palm Springs! Teachers became professors. Often at Harvard.

    Very interesting info about the Bauhaus can be found here: https://www.harvardartmuseums.org/vi...us-and-harvard

    Rumpler's Tropfenwagen
    Enter a long-forgotten name: Edmund Rumpler. He was an Austrian engineer working for Mercedes, Adler and later he owned his own aeroplane company: Rumpler (small compared by Fokker). 1921, he dazzled the world with his Tropfenwagen (Tear Drop Car). He showed the car at the Berlin Auto show. Technically a masterpiece, design-wise very, very important. But no-one bought the car and Rumpler's business went belly-up



    This rear-engined car had a drag co-efficiency of 0,28. Topped by Volkswagen in 1979. Rumpler sold his plans and patents to Mercedes who then developed rear-engined models with the letter 'H' at the end. 'H' stands for 'Heck' (rear). Word has it - but it's not confirmed that all major players of years to come have seen this car: Ledwinka, Tjaarda, Levebre and... Porsche. All producers of interesting cars in the years to come! Only the inventor of the Citroen 2CV: Lefebre had a different opinion: "You don't put a horse behind the carriage!"

    Porsche Typ12
    There's a lot to do about the Typ64 that went under the hammer. However, there were more 'Typs': in 1930/31, Porsche designed a car for Zündapp. A motorcycle and moped manufacturer. This car had a 5 cylinder radial engine! Porsche and Zündapp didn't agree on that and the project was abandoned. Porsche moved on.

    Influences all over the place
    E.g., in the USA, a former Dutch pilot, John Tjaarda was making name for himself. He'd studied aeronautical design in the UK and went to the US in the early 20s. In the US, he starts working for Locke. A coachbuilding company with strong ties to Chrysler. He designs several models of the Touralette. A 2 door coach. Slowly, but surely, those cars get more and more streamlined! He biggest step is when he decides to build monocoques! He joins Briggs and designs the Lincoln Zypher.



    But before that, he's designed this as well:

    Streamlined cars, rear-engined and air-cooled were big hits in those days. Even Le Corbusier, the architect, designed a rear-engined car! And remember that 'air-cooled' had a good reputation back then! All nearly all aeroplanes of that era had air-cooled engines.

    Streamline
    Most European designers came up with streamlined cars following the phrase: 'form follows function': relatively light cars, small engines were capable of impressive performances due to their shapes. The Tatra is a very small car! Not much bigger than the Beetle. Other manufacturers like Duesenburg in the US couldn't care less about small engines. They came up with 'streamline' because it was 'en vogue'. Fokker came up with the Pan Am planes, closely followed by Boeing's DC's. Beautiful shaped and shiny 'birds'. Especially the rich and famous related to that (so were some in Europe: the Zeppelin travels were very expensive).

    The cars
    Apart from the Tropfenwagen there are more cars worth a picture:

    Porsche Typ12


    Frist 2CV (Note the corrigated steel - just like the Nazi Juckers planes!



    Tatra V570



    DKW F2


  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I always like Hugo Boss clothing, but can never get the SS uniform in my size.
    Mengele is a well-known and widely used brand overhere when it comes to large agricultural machinery.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I always like Hugo Boss clothing, but can never get the SS uniform in my size.
    Perhaps Ed Balls (were you up for Balls?) can lend you his?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    Perhaps Ed Balls (were you up for Balls?) can lend you his?
    The trousers were very tight, it felt like they were designed for a much smaller...... er, wait?!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I always like Hugo Boss clothing, but can never get the SS uniform in my size.
    Shame, black is so your colour

    M

  27. #27
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    Thank you Thieuster.


    Bottom line is; with the first ´Porsche´ having been the KdF cars built in good old Freddies´ own shop and the Type 64 three race being versions of same built in same shop, the renouncing of the latter is as transparently truthful as Boris Johnson marketing Brexit.
    Thát was my point.

    All in all a híghly informative thread btw.
    Am enjoying it a lot. Thanks for all the serous contibutions.
    Ditto for the illustrations of hypocrisy.

    Will be putting spanners to my Toyoda, oops Toyota. The factory produced trucks, aircraft bits et all for WW2, was carpet bombed flat etc. Now one of the largest car manufacturers and the MR2 a fun sports car with cool and harmless history.
    When designing/developing the MR, Toyota bought all the mid engined not supercars examples in existance at the time, added what they could learn from those to their own lighweight sport cars and came up with a their own design product of the state of the car art of the time.

    Have a nice day guys!
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 20th August 2019 at 09:26.
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  28. #28
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Thank you Thieuster.


    Bottom line is; with the first ´Porsche´ having been the KdF cars built in good old Freddies´ own shop and the Type 64 three race being versions of same built in same shop, the renouncing of the latter is as transparently truthful as Boris Johnson marketing Brexit.
    Thát was my point.

    All in all a híghly informative thread btw.
    Am enjoying it a lot. Thanks for all the serous contibutions.
    Ditto for the illustrations of hypocrisy.

    Will be putting spanners to my Toyoda, oops Toyota. The factory produced trucks, aircraft bits et all for WW2, was carpet bombed flat etc. Now one of the largest car manufacturers and the MR2 a fun sports car with cool and harmless history.
    When designing/developing the MR, Toyota bought all the mid engined not supercars examples in existance at the time, added what they could learn from those to their own lighweight sport cars and came up with a their own design product of the state of the car art of the time.

    Have a nice day guys!
    Its a point, but a massive so what. Porsche doesn't consider the type 64 to be a real porsche because it pre dates the Gmund car and the creation of Porsche Konstruktionen GesmbH. Just in the same way Porsche doesn't consider the Beetle, the Mercedes SS and Tiger Tank to be "Porsche" cars. They may have been designed by F.Porsche, but they did not come out of Porsche Konstruktionen.

    What you are suggesting is akin to suggesting that the Pontiac GTO or Firebirds are actually DeLoreans, because he designed and built them (for GM) or that the Triumph Dolomite 8 was actually a Healey because it was designed and built by Donald Healey (for Triumph).

    As for the Toyota MR. Lol, unless of course you are suggesting they were also responsible for the Fiat X19 and Pontiac Fiero, and who can forget Lotus or Simca Bagherra. BTW the Fiat X19 predates the MR2 by about 11 years. So it's much more likely that Toyota copied the European design, just as Maxda did with the MX3, but made it better.

    Cilla, the definition of a revisionist.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  29. #29
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    I have a Krups egg boiler. I believe they made bombs during the war.

    "Yes well, forgive and forget, eh Major? God knows how, the bastards."

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    They may have been designed by F.Porsche, but they did not come out of Porsche Konstruktionen.
    Do read what I write please.
    As I wrote, strictly speaking they have a point.
    My opínion about that point is that I find it opportunist.

    Regardsless their point, Í find the Type 64 a perfect example of the thinking; of a racing KdF-Wagen, which using later tech. created the first branded Porsche.

    As to the MR2; that is a perfect example of évery modern car being a product of its time; directly or indirectly interbred with the rest of the state of the art.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  31. #31
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    I have a Krups egg boiler. I believe they made bombs during the war.

    "Yes well, forgive and forget, eh Major? God knows how, the bastards."

    An egg boiler! Commonly know as a saucepan in most worlds. AKA a potato boiler or pea boiler .

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  32. #32
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Do read what I write please.
    As I wrote, strictly speaking they have a point.
    My opínion about that point is that I find it opportunist.

    Regardsless their point, Í find the Type 64 a perfect example of the thinking; of a racing KdF-Wagen, which using later tech. created the first branded Porsche.

    As to the MR2; that is a perfect example of évery modern car being a product of its time; directly or indirectly interbred with the rest of the state of the art.
    This is what you originally wrote

    Every other factory would have proudly recognised it but it´s German, Nazi linked and Porschâh depending on US posh buyers so no, it cannot be a Porsche.
    No such qualms when the 356 was introduced but in today´s world and the USA´s politically correct marked involved it´s a no go.
    How petty and sad; history is what it is.
    Anyway, the racing version of the pre beetle is no longer seen as convenient heritage, but whát an impressive car!

    Note the use of the words "petty", "sad" and "cannot be recognised as a Porsche".

    Alas the simply fact is that it cannot be recognised as a Porsche because it's isn't a Porsche. It doesnt carry a Porsche VIN number for starters, it was never built at Gmund or Zuffenhausen or any Porsche factory and was built BEFORE the Porsche company was formed in 1947. So no more a Porsche than a Mercedes SS or T80 or a VW Beetle.

    No qualms about the 356, etc, because these were built in Porsche Factories.

    So you are entitled to an opinion, but it seems to be based upon personal prejudice, not actual fact.

    As for the MR2 I was simply pointing out that Fiat built a mass produced, small, mid-engined, non-supercar a full 10 (TEN) years before Toyota. But perhaps you think that honour should also go to Porsche given they built the Beatle derived 550 in 1953. So the MR2 is hardly cutting edge, unless of course you are a hair dresser.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  33. #33
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    An egg boiler! Commonly know as a saucepan in most worlds. AKA a potato boiler or pea boiler .
    Boiling eggs in a saucepan, like an animal! What are you, some kind of throwback?

  34. #34
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    Boiling eggs in a saucepan, like an animal! What are you, some kind of throwback?
    Boiled eggs give me gas.
    If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see your brand new with tags bargepole float by right after the swine which choked on the pearls.

  35. #35
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post

    As for the MR2 I was simply pointing out that Fiat built a mass produced, small, mid-engined, non-supercar a full 10 (TEN) years before Toyota. But perhaps you think that honour should also go to Porsche given they built the Beatle derived 550 in 1953. So the MR2 is hardly cutting edge, unless of course you are a hair dresser.
    Typically confusing things and/or not reading; state of the art is not the cutting egde. Even though the MR2, especially Mk2 and 3 based race cars, were more successful in racing than widely known, none of the versiosn were anywhere nar the cuting edge nor intended to be. Toyota was/is after all catering for the mass market. It being a ´Runabout´ says it all.

    With your hairdresser stab you are illustrating how misinformed you are. That was the Mk.1. The Mk.3 one is that it is for homosexual couples, which, generalising, is not a bad one at all as those usually have more spending power than average and better taste than average.

    Funny you mention the 550 as beetle derived as the beetle derived Porsches have a rear engine layout; píng. The 550 is not beetle derived. The Type 64 is KdF-Wagen derived and the KdF-wagen the pre-beetle thus the Type 64 a pre-beetle derived crace car designed and made in the Porsche workshop before that was registered as Porsche brand.

    The Porsche 914/6 is beetle mid éngined rwd, well before the X1/9...
    As a concept the mid engine rwd goes a little further back. The 1900 NW Rennzweier (forerunner of Tatra!!) may have been the first such (race) car.
    After that a whole host of race cars and few off´s saw the light.
    After WW2 the first road car was the 1962 (Rene) Bonnet / Matra Djet which cannot really be dubbed mass production so the 914 could be given that honour, so yes it goes to Porsche indeed.
    Typical though, many Porsche ´purists´(read snobs) do not consider the 914 to be real Porsche. A bit nuff as they do count the Volkswagen engined 912 as a Porsche.
    The Porsche denial is, as Í see it, simply to accomodate the snobs; by fár their largest market, hence my Porschâh.

    Btw. Cúrrentlty the average/typical MR2 Mk.3 owner does not have enough hair to warrent a hairdresser ;-)
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 22nd August 2019 at 13:17.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post

    With your hairdresser stab you are illustrating how misinformed you are. That was the Mk.1. The Mk.3 one is that it is for homosexual couples, which, generalising, is not a bad one at all as those usually have more spending power than average and better taste than average.

    ;-)
    How much heroin can you take before overdosing?

    You seem to be high as F%#k with comments like that! Or have you just been measured up for your Hugo Boss suit?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    How much heroin can you take before overdosing?

    You seem to be high as F%#k with comments like that! Or have you just been measured up for your Hugo Boss suit?
    Baffling how this again turns into Brits throwing an insult fit.

    Nope, no suit; did get a Boss perfume from charming company though. Maybe I should ask them for SwissNavy.

    Have a nice day too!


    Btw. there was a Porschâh Cayenne broken down at the side of the road down to the village. They are rather common here. Rather a snob thing too. Another pointer about the Porschâh buyers and marketing behind unhooking the heritage.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post

    Btw. there was a Porschâh Cayenne broken down at the side of the road down to the village. They are rather common here. Rather a snob thing too. Another pointer about the Porschâh buyers and marketing behind unhooking the heritage.
    I've been driving Porsches (it's pronounced Porsch-uh) for the past seven years, they are utterly fantastic cars and generally known for their very good reliability and value retention. They are much cheaper to buy and run compared with their competition, and the engineering behind them is extremely impressive.

    Much more important than all that guff is that they are a complete hoot to drive. I'm currently driving a Cayman 981 GTS, utterly sublime and highly recommended.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxXrDIevmlY

  39. #39
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    I had a Boxster S 2007 for 6 years. Paid £19k for it at an independant, sold it for £13,500 last year. Servicing was £1,000 every other year so total servicing and depreciation cost me £18 a week. Cheap fun!

    Replaced with newer 981S model with PDK. Even more fun (but more money!). Last of the 6 cyl until Porsche decide to go back to understanding there ain't no replacement for displacement.

  40. #40
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Typically confusing things and/or not reading; state of the art is not the cutting egde. Even though the MR2, especially Mk2 and 3 based race cars, were more successful in racing than widely known, none of the versiosn were anywhere nar the cuting edge nor intended to be. Toyota was/is after all catering for the mass market. It being a ´Runabout´ says it all.

    With your hairdresser stab you are illustrating how misinformed you are. That was the Mk.1. The Mk.3 one is that it is for homosexual couples, which, generalising, is not a bad one at all as those usually have more spending power than average and better taste than average.

    Funny you mention the 550 as beetle derived as the beetle derived Porsches have a rear engine layout; píng. The 550 is not beetle derived. The Type 64 is KdF-Wagen derived and the KdF-wagen the pre-beetle thus the Type 64 a pre-beetle derived crace car designed and made in the Porsche workshop before that was registered as Porsche brand.

    The Porsche 914/6 is beetle mid éngined rwd, well before the X1/9...
    As a concept the mid engine rwd goes a little further back. The 1900 NW Rennzweier (forerunner of Tatra!!) may have been the first such (race) car.
    After that a whole host of race cars and few off´s saw the light.
    After WW2 the first road car was the 1962 (Rene) Bonnet / Matra Djet which cannot really be dubbed mass production so the 914 could be given that honour, so yes it goes to Porsche indeed.
    Typical though, many Porsche ´purists´(read snobs) do not consider the 914 to be real Porsche. A bit nuff as they do count the Volkswagen engined 912 as a Porsche.
    The Porsche denial is, as Í see it, simply to accomodate the snobs; by fár their largest market, hence my Porschâh.

    Btw. Cúrrentlty the average/typical MR2 Mk.3 owner does not have enough hair to warrent a hairdresser ;-)

    Comic genus

    MR's had their own race series I believe. So yes, hopefully the odd MR2 won those.

    As for the 550, yes I know it was mid-engines, hence the comparison to the MR2 (which it pre-dated by 30 odd years), but although it was mid engine, it was still derived from the 356 which in turn was derived from the the Beatle. Plus it used a similar (but souped up version of the 356 air cooled flat 4 - which was derived from the beatle power unit).

    As for the 914/6 being available long before the X/19 - the 914 was released in 69 and the X/19 in 1970. So hardly "long before"

    As for Porsche "snobs" not considering the 914 or 916 a real Porsche - laughable, but provide your proof please. Most will know that it was originally intended to be JV with VW, with VW selling the 1.8 version and Porsche selling the 914/6 version. In the US both were sold as Porsche, but in the ROTW they were sold as VW Porsche. However you will be pleased to know that both the POCA and PCUK both have 914/6 registers, so as far as they are concerned they are Porsche's.

    The 914/6 are fantastic cars and fetch big money. The problem in the UK was that very few were made RHD, and engines varied from 1.7 to 2.0, and they rust - very badly. The mid engine configuration also made them a bugger to work on. Now days, people in the market for "poverty Porsche" tend to look at the 924 and 944 models because they are more reliable, easier to fix and much better that 914 - and these are Porsche's as well.

    As for the MR2 not been state of the art or cutting edge - you are not wrong. Toyota made/make some great cars, but the MR2 isn't one of them. You should have got a Celica ST or GT (Mk1)

    I am sorry that you seem to have a problem with Porsche, (perhaps a bit of a Porsche envy) and some of their owners, but it seems to me, you are trying to project your own bigotry as facts, which they aren't. Plus it makes you appear a bit sad.

    Better you stick to your MR2, great little cars for older people wishing to own a "sports" car in which to keep their crimping irons and hair dryers. Hopefully yours isn't White. That would be so funny.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by broxie View Post
    Whilst on the topic - The Porsche Type 64 - Top Gear.

    And how about Wernher von Braun who's previous background was certainly airbrushed out whilst the Americans raced to the moon.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ9HrZq7Ro

  42. #42
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    I’m curious, at which point you (as in fellow forum members) knew that this thread will be about Porsche v Toyota MR2?
    If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see your brand new with tags bargepole float by right after the swine which choked on the pearls.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I've been driving Porsches (it's pronounced Porsch-uh)
    ...and Í am fluent in German.

    Hilarious how you. I hope deliberately, miss the pun.
    Sad how you also totally miss the crux of the thread and feel the need mention that you have been driving one for seven years; good for you; ánd snob alert. A pointer to the marketing reasons to renounce the Type 64.


    @VDG
    I am delighted to not having read that you think the English invented Porschâhs.
    No, mine is grey, black and red and unlike Porchâh owners don´t take it, nor myself, seriously*. Now there is agaín a pointer to the marking resaons behind renouncing the Type 64.
    * yes, retired, strugling to keep the weight down, grey&bolding and my other c-company ís a nurse so no worries to get in/out of the car. Blond too btw.

    Enjoy your day. I am trying to get on my race bicycle nów; breaking the routine of the MTB (weight control), and finger crossed nothing more :-)
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post

    Sad how you also totally miss the crux of the thread and feel the need mention that you have been driving one for seven years; good for you; ánd snob alert.
    I don't care about the crux of the thread. I'm a Porsche driver, not a Porsche historian and I couldn't care less what this antique car is called because I have no interest in it.

    The reason I mentioned that I've been driving Porsches for seven years is that I have the ownership experience (a 911, then two Caymans), and you clearly do not. Trying to characterise Porsches as unreliable, and the owners as "snobs" is incorrect, and looks like sour grapes. IMO, Porsche make the most cost-effective and fun sports cars, and that's the only reason I drive one.

    https://penlighten.com/summary-meani...ble-fox-grapes

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Comic genus




    I am sorry that you seem to have a problem with Porsche, (perhaps a bit of a Porsche envy) and some of their owners, but it seems to me, you are trying to project your own bigotry as facts, which they aren't. Plus it makes you appear a bit sad.
    Was the same with cilla and bikes (pedal) tried to tell everyone his was the pinnacle of frame building/steel tubing, ignoring the achievements of Columbus tubi/Reynolds and the hands of Ishiwata, Pegoretti, Sachs and others sat at the top table.

    Reminds me of an Arsene Wenger quote: “everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home”

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    I’m curious, at which point you (as in fellow forum members) knew that this thread will be about Porsche v Toyota MR2?
    I didn't. Is this a repeating pattern?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I don't care about the crux of the thread. I'm a Porsche driver, not a Porsche historian and I couldn't care less what this antique car is called because I have no interest in it.

    The reason I mentioned that I've been driving Porsches for seven years is that I have the ownership experience (a 911, then two Caymans), and you clearly do not. Trying to characterise Porsches as unreliable, and the owners as "snobs" is incorrect, and looks like sour grapes. IMO, Porsche make the most cost-effective and fun sports cars, and that's the only reason I drive one.
    Ah well, they are like Rolexi. If you don´t want one and explain why, it´s sour grapes about not being able to afford one.
    Both very much market heritage as it sees them fit; ignoring the inconvenient bits.
    Another parallel is that you don´t have to be a diver or driver to bask in that image; desk diver, desk driver ...
    Porsche though is modern state of the art tech but nevertheless, bóth also come with a véry strong brand image having two sides to the medal.


    When buying the last three cars, every time I looked at the Boxster. Last time I could buy an early one with low mileage, garaged, religiously ad maintained at a shárp price; cheap even, because the colour was ´wrong´. Í loved the colour and the car but it simply does not suit my purpose so; although a very much better car in every aspect, bought the MR. Now, almost a year later still having fun with it, making it lighter and have not lost a single point off my licence.
    It is horses for courses mister Holsterman and even the Boxster is several steps away from the light delight the early 911 (and even more the 912) was. Yes I have driven those too. At that time it was the closest you could come to a motorcycle on four wheels!!
    That observed I am happy for you that you enjoy your car!
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Was the same with cilla and bikes (pedal) tried to tell everyone his was the pinnacle of frame building/steel tubing, ignoring the achievements of Columbus tubi/Reynolds and the hands of Ishiwata, Pegoretti, Sachs and others sat at the top table.

    Reminds me of an Arsene Wenger quote: “everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home”
    lets not forget the "expertise" (Google fu) on hats, then umbrellas, then dafs, wonder what will be next!!

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Ah well, they are like Rolexi. If you don´t want one and explain why, it´s sour grapes about not being able to afford one.
    Both very much market heritage as it sees them fit; ignoring the inconvenient bits.
    Another parallel is that you don´t have to be a diver or driver to bask in that image; desk diver, desk driver ...
    Porsche though is modern state of the art tech but nevertheless, bóth also come with a véry strong brand image having two sides to the medal.


    When buying the last three cars, every time I looked at the Boxster. Last time I could buy an early one with low mileage, garaged, religiously ad maintained at a shárp price; cheap even, because the colour was ´wrong´. Í loved the colour and the car but it simply does not suit my purpose so; although a very much better car in every aspect, bought the MR. Now, almost a year later still having fun with it, making it lighter and have not lost a single point off my licence.
    It is horses for courses mister Holsterman and even the Boxster is several steps away from the light delight the early 911 (and even more the 912) was. Yes I have driven those too. At that time it was the closest you could come to a motorcycle on four wheels!!
    That observed I am happy for you that you enjoy your car!
    There's any number of German companies still in business today which collaborated w/ the Nazis, but this is 80 years ago. You sound a bit like a Brexiter - let it go.

    I'm not saying Porsche is for everyone, but in the scheme of things they're very good value and are attainable for the ordinary guy, unlike Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens etc. If you genuinely prefer driving an MR2 to a modern Cayman or 911, that's a good result for you. The Boxter is mildly floppier, IME.

  50. #50
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    ...and Í am fluent in German.

    Hilarious how you. I hope deliberately, miss the pun.
    Sad how you also totally miss the crux of the thread and feel the need mention that you have been driving one for seven years; good for you; ánd snob alert. A pointer to the marketing reasons to renounce the Type 64.


    @VDG
    I am delighted to not having read that you think the English invented Porschâhs.
    No, mine is grey, black and red and unlike Porchâh owners don´t take it, nor myself, seriously*. Now there is agaín a pointer to the marking resaons behind renouncing the Type 64.
    * yes, retired, strugling to keep the weight down, grey&bolding and my other c-company ís a nurse so no worries to get in/out of the car. Blond too btw.

    Enjoy your day. I am trying to get on my race bicycle nów; breaking the routine of the MTB (weight control), and finger crossed nothing more :-)
    Take it easy P and enjoy your motor, last thing you want is to persuade Porsche owners to sell their 911s and Boxters 'cuz MR2 is a better car, you'd then have to buy Porsche to be different ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I didn't. Is this a repeating pattern?
    Yep, Cilla loves to propel highly irrelevant topics into the limelight..
    If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see your brand new with tags bargepole float by right after the swine which choked on the pearls.

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