Reply With QuoteIt is indeed the country in which the passport was issued - UK in that case.
Edit: The passport would have been physically made in the consulate and issued there, not shipped from France
Afternoon,
I'm trying to find out the "Country of issue" for a French colleague, as we are both somewhat unsure as the passport was ordered and collected in the UK. It is for airline check-in, Ryanair, hence the desire to make sure it's absolutely correct so they have no grounds to insist on paying to change later.
The passport simply states:
Authority: Londres-Consulat General de France
Does this mean the country of issue was France or the UK? Lots of contradictory info online about this, with some stating that it was issued by France and sent to the UK, or issued in the UK by France!
Any pointers would be much appreciated.
Hugh
Last edited by hughtrimble; 15th August 2019 at 14:15.
It is indeed the country in which the passport was issued - UK in that case.
Edit: The passport would have been physically made in the consulate and issued there, not shipped from France
This is what's unclear - whether it was made in the UK or shipped here from France.Originally Posted by Senninha
A little ridiculous that there is no ''Country of Issue" field on passports, when that is the information requested!
Says here https://uk.ambafrance.org/Passport-21815
It can take up to 4 weeks to issue passports as they are produced in France.
Not sure if this helps you at all, but my OLD (2001) UK passport was issued by the British High Commission in New Delhi and that is what is recorded as the 'Authority' within the passport, but there is no Country of Issue stated.
My new (UK issued) passport still does not have the Country of Issue stated either, but it does still show the Authority, this time it is shown as IPS (identity and passport service).
Are they not actually asking for the 'country who allows you to hold the passport', rather than where the passport was actually handed over to you? ie, in your (friends) case he is travelling under a french passport, so the country of issue would still be France, even though it was actually produced at the french embassy in London.
Last edited by Maysie; 15th August 2019 at 14:29.
IMO:
Country of issue: France
Place of issue: London
After all, it is a French passport.
Similarly, my British one has no mention of "Country of Issue" either, and the "Authority" states "HMPO" with no definition for that initialism given (though I know what it means!). Just very odd that they ask for info that isn't provided, and of course their FAQs don't mention it and their online chat system does not function.
Issued in UK, produced (not that this is important) in France.
Quite! But they don't ask 'Place', just 'Country'.
It's clearly not a bra cause of confusion as there are lots of threads online about this question, but no concrete answers.
Going with France as it was printed there.
That's kind of my thinking too.
Clear as mud but I'm now suspecting if it did cause more issues they're would be more information of an official nature available.
- - - Updated - - -
Interesting - I've gone with the opposite now.
So much faff and confusion for what appears to be important information, but equally can't be that important as the passports don't even have a dedicated field for it.
Yes, but if the concern is officiousness, the best is to answer the question asked, which is “where was it issued”, rather than where it was made.
Passports usually do say the issuing authority - my UK one certainly does. Maybe depends on the age or country?
EDIT; if answering “France” for a French passport, it’s basically asking the same question twice. The fact that a second question is asked means there must be the possibility for there to be another answer.
Last edited by Senninha; 15th August 2019 at 14:42.
Don't forget that British passports will soon be made (produced) in France!
Think of it the other way round. If you answer that the country issuing the passport was the UK, you might think that it was issued by the British Government. I'd go with France because it was issued by the French government, albeit from their office in London.
You may be reassured a little by the concept of Extraterritoriality...link...and France in the United Kingdom.
I don't interpret 'Country of Issue' as the same as 'Place of Issue' though? The former is - to me - the country that issued the passport, and the latter is where it was issued. I don't see how the UK could issue a French passport, but of course the UK can be the place where it was issued. If you get me?
This kind of thing really shouldn't be down to interpretation though, it should be a defined field (a bureaucratic impossibility though, most likely!).
Very true. I'll cross that bridge/tunnel/ferry/barbed wire border post when it happens.
A french passport issued by the French Consulat is essentially issued by a small piece of France, which happens to be located on British soil.
I think there is only ONE question being asked by the airline here (unless I have misunderstood); which country issued you with the passport on which you will be travelling, not 'whether England or France issued your French passport'.
From the airline there are two questions - which nationality passport you have, and the place of issuance.
My Japanese colleagues have this a lot, as they have Japanese passports, but all issued here in the UK. They have to answer Japan and UK respectively.
If there’s a concern the best is to phone Ryanair and see what, in this specific circumstance, they expect as answers!
I would have though that if that was the case in this (OP's) particular instance, then there is no question that the OP needs us to help him to answer, as the answers to the questions on your example are blindingly obvious.
As Maysie notes, that is not what the airline were asking for (at least from my understanding).
Nationality is a defined field, and was indeed asked, but as it's a specific field in the passport, that's easy to sort.
The issue relates to the airline asking for information that is not a defined passport field: 'Country of issue'. I appreciate you, Senninha, are interpreting 'Place of issuance' as synonymous with 'Country of issue', but I am not of the same mind.
I did try and contact Ryanair but gave up waiting. Their online chat, which is preferable as I can then screenshot and provide evidence as to what they stated if there is an issue on the day of travel, simply would not open to even begin a chat with a real person (the AI one works, but doesn't have the answer to this question).
I'll report back if there is an issue. But equally, if they don't say anything, that really isn't evidence that I input the correct thing as they may not care!
Hedge your bets?
Enter 'Londres RU-Consulat General de France'. Or does it say that all answers must be in English?
It's a drop down field, unfortunately. But also understandable.
^^^ this.
De jure, French Embassy is a territory of France. /sigh/
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I’m just smiling that OP asked here for clarity after the murk of the internet, and I think we’ve succeeded in making things even murkier :-)
I thought that was a common misconception? They are not sovereign territory of the state they represent, rather they're under the state they represent's jurisdiction.
Also it's a consulate rather than embassy, which is different, but I did not think either counted as sovereign territory.
I had rather hoped there would be a frequent traveller who has dealt with this issue before. But with hindsight that would only really show their experience and not necessarily be what we will face when travelling!
This has been, and indeed still is, very interesting to read though.
Ha, that me told then :blackeye:
Notwithstanding, the passport country of issue would be France.Contrary to popular belief, most diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and – in those cases – are not sovereign territory of the represented state.[11] Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions usually remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Diplomats themselves still retain full diplomatic immunity, and (as an adherent to the Vienna Convention) the host country may not enter the premises of the mission without permission of the represented country, even to put out a fire.[12] International rules designate an attack on an embassy as an attack on the country it represents.[citation needed] The term "extraterritoriality" is often applied to diplomatic missions, but normally only in this broader sense.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
This has all been very interesting! I agree with your summary, and indeed have France as the country of issue.
Posting Permissions