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Thread: Banning hands free in cars

  1. #351
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    You can carrying on banging the same drum but there’s no way that a handheld call and hands free call carry the same level of distraction....... despite your endless website links
    You are obviously in very deep denial, which may help to explain your meltdowns and you ad hominem attacks (which, of itself, should be a strong indicator to you of how comprehensively you have lost the argument.

    But let's just, for a moment (and to let you try to preserve a tiny shred of your dignity), examine your thesis above.

    Can you please explain what evidence you have to refute all the published material (from many different researchers) in this area? Where have they all gone wrong? Is it in the scientific method employed? The sample sets chosen? The equipment used? The controls? The statistical tools? The deductions drawn from the data? I mean, if you're right and they are all wrong, it will be easy for you to show where they have gone wrong - won't it?

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I would question it. It is better in some circumstances to have two hands on the wheel, but I can't drive everywhere in first so I suspect the difference between one and two hands is actually quite small. Paying attention is much more important.

    Loads of people rest their hands on the gear lever the entire time...
    Wrong - being able to operate the car correctly trumps being a bit distracted. If you cannot operate the car you won't worry about a bit of distracted because you will be trying to change gears and steer at the same time.
    Only an idiot/troll would suggest the difference between driving a manual with one hand and two hands is "actually quite small". Even more so if the left hand is being used for other things.

    Moronic comment from our resident troll.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  3. #353
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    Either this is a false dichotomy or it isn’t.


    Sent from my calculator using a lawnmower.

  4. #354
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    You are obviously in very deep denial, which may help to explain your meltdowns and you ad hominem attacks (which, of itself, should be a strong indicator to you of how comprehensively you have lost the argument.

    But let's just, for a moment (and to let you try to preserve a tiny shred of your dignity), examine your thesis above.

    Can you please explain what evidence you have to refute all the published material (from many different researchers) in this area? Where have they all gone wrong? Is it in the scientific method employed? The sample sets chosen? The equipment used? The controls? The statistical tools? The deductions drawn from the data? I mean, if you're right and they are all wrong, it will be easy for you to show where they have gone wrong - won't it?
    If the studies are so right them how come the auto industry invested millions in fitting hands free kits, why hasn't the government banned them already and why does motor sport permit two way communitication during races. If the evidence is so overwhelming, then surely all these organisation are leaving themselves open to massive law suits down the road (pun)

    Speaking personally, a voice activated hands free system is considerable safer than holding a phone to my ear ( especially when driving a manual). That's a fact and nothing you can say will change that.

    As for whether talking/listening in a car (either its your radio, passenger or on the phone) being distracting, then I would say that's dependant upon the length of the conversation and it's content. Hence is a massive variable which cannot be controlled or measured because it's dependant upon so many factors.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  5. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    You are obviously in very deep denial, which may help to explain your meltdowns and you ad hominem attacks (which, of itself, should be a strong indicator to you of how comprehensively you have lost the argument.

    But let's just, for a moment (and to let you try to preserve a tiny shred of your dignity), examine your thesis above.

    Can you please explain what evidence you have to refute all the published material (from many different researchers) in this area? Where have they all gone wrong? Is it in the scientific method employed? The sample sets chosen? The equipment used? The controls? The statistical tools? The deductions drawn from the data? I mean, if you're right and they are all wrong, it will be easy for you to show where they have gone wrong - won't it?
    Thats so funny 😂

  6. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Speaking personally, a voice activated hands free system is considerable safer than holding a phone to my ear ( especially when driving a manual). That's a fact and nothing you can say will change that.
    Make your mind up, personal opinion or fact?

  7. #357
    Can you please explain what evidence you have to refute all the published material (from many different researchers) in this area? Where have they all gone wrong? Is it in the scientific method employed? The sample sets chosen? The equipment used? The controls? The statistical tools? The deductions drawn from the data? I mean, if you're right and they are all wrong, it will be easy for you to show where they have gone wrong

    Funny how you want that level of explanation from me yet you and Holsterman are incapable of answering the the question I posed regarding the 2 scenarios without referencing once a website...... if you don’t get it now you never will

  8. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Likening this thread and comparing to drink driving was a dick move and you know it.
    The findings are that driving performance deteriorates to the same level as having 80mg/dL alcohol in the blood, so it's easily comparable. But since you don't believe in anything outside your own experience, that won't mean a thing to you.

  9. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    If the studies are so right them how come the auto industry invested millions in fitting hands free kits, why hasn't the government banned them already and why does motor sport permit two way communitication during races. If the evidence is so overwhelming, then surely all these organisation are leaving themselves open to massive law suits down the road (pun)

    Speaking personally, a voice activated hands free system is considerable safer than holding a phone to my ear ( especially when driving a manual). That's a fact and nothing you can say will change that.

    As for whether talking/listening in a car (either its your radio, passenger or on the phone) being distracting, then I would say that's dependant upon the length of the conversation and it's content. Hence is a massive variable which cannot be controlled or measured because it's dependant upon so many factors.
    1. How many "millions" were invested by the auto industry? IME Bluetooth has been an (expensive) option, so the customer pays.

    2. Why hasn't the govt. banned them already? Brexit. The govt's done nothing for three years.

    3. In motor sport, drivers accept the risks and usage is kept to a minimum. I've heard drivers telling the pits to STFU.

    Your experience does not alter reality.

  10. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Wrong - being able to operate the car correctly trumps being a bit distracted. If you cannot operate the car you won't worry about a bit of distracted because you will be trying to change gears and steer at the same time.
    Only an idiot/troll would suggest the difference between driving a manual with one hand and two hands is "actually quite small". Even more so if the left hand is being used for other things.

    Moronic comment from our resident troll.
    You can operate the car correctly with one hand on the wheel.

    And thanks for the ad-hom, a proper charmer.

  11. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post

    Funny how you want that level of explanation from me yet you and Holsterman are incapable of answering the the question I posed regarding the 2 scenarios without referencing once a website...... if you don’t get it now you never will
    It's the without referencing once a website bit that I don't get. Why have you introduced this rather strange rule? Is it to try to stop us showing you the data?

  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    If the studies are so right them how come the auto industry invested millions in fitting hands free kits,
    Because the government passed bad legislation, leading people to (incorrectly) believe that handsfree calls were safer than handheld calls. They in turn wanted to buy cars that allowed handsfree communication and the automotive industry responded to a customer demand in order to make money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    why hasn't the government banned them already
    That's what the whole thread is about. MPs are now - quite rightly - suggesting that, based on the scientific evidence, they should also legislate against handsfree calls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    why does motor sport permit two way communitication during races.
    Motor sport has many things which are different to public roads (no speed limits, all cars going in the same direction, enhanced safety equipment, drivers of roughly similar competence, race control, marshals, etc, etc) , so it's not really meaningful to compare the two. And it's not that unusual to hear racing drivers saying "leave me alone" or "stop talking to me, I'm trying to drive" - even at F1 levels of competence, and with a very limited subject matter being communicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Speaking personally, a voice activated hands free system is considerable safer than holding a phone to my ear ( especially when driving a manual). That's a fact and nothing you can say will change that.
    That's certainly a personal opinion. It is most certainly not a "fact" - as mentioned many, many times (with links to the primary sources) all the evidence says otherwise. You're making the mistake of extrapolating from your personal beliefs to a generalised statement (it would be like saying "I like mushy peas, therefore mushy peas are the most popular vegetable in the world. And that's a fact".
    Last edited by PhilipK; 19th August 2019 at 17:04. Reason: Fixed quotes

  13. #363
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    At present it does not matter which is safer since the law is very straightforward; using a handheld mobile phone is not lawful. Using a handsfree mobile phone is in and of itself, legal. However, if it can be shown that your use of a handsfree mobile phone (or any other thing, device, etc) contributed to the occurrence of an incident then there is still a possibility of being prosecuted for not being in proper control of a vehicle.


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  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    You're making the mistake of extrapolating from your personal beliefs to a generalised statement
    Ain´t thát a fact!!

  15. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    It's the without referencing once a website bit that I don't get. Why have you introduced this rather strange rule? Is it to try to stop us showing you the data?
    I've given you 2 very real life scenarios of mobile phone use but every time you say that the distraction levels are the same because the website says so. You've not driven through the 2 scenarios in your head because if you have had you'd see the blatant difference between them. I will concede that the conversation in itself is probably equally as distracting but you completely ignore the mechanism to get the conversation started in the first place which is the bewildering thing about it. Removing a phone from a pocket, looking down answering the call, driving one handed, trapping the handset between your shoulder and ear, texting, is far more distracting than simply pressing a green button and talking. Youre living in cloud cuckoo land if you don't get that.

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I've given you 2 very real life scenarios of mobile phone use but every time you say that the distraction levels are the same because the website says so. You've not driven through the 2 scenarios in your head because if you have had you'd see the blatant difference between them. I will concede that the conversation in itself is probably equally as distracting but you completely ignore the mechanism to get the conversation started in the first place which is the bewildering thing about it. Removing a phone from a pocket, looking down answering the call, driving one handed, trapping the handset between your shoulder and ear, texting, is far more distracting than simply pressing a green button and talking. Youre living in cloud cuckoo land if you don't get that.
    I think that the point he’s trying to make is that, whilst you’re absolutely right, it only takes a few seconds which, given the length of even a shortish call, is actually insignificant in the overall process.

    Ignore the texting as that’s a completely different issue and not relevant to this discussion.

  17. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I will concede that the conversation in itself is probably equally as distracting
    That's where you're wrong, the conversation is a lot more distracting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    but you completely ignore the mechanism to get the conversation started in the first place which is the bewildering thing about it. Removing a phone from a pocket, looking down answering the call, driving one handed, trapping the handset between your shoulder and ear, texting, is far more distracting than simply pressing a green button and talking. Youre living in cloud cuckoo land if you don't get that.
    The scenario is unrealistic. If I was planning to answer incoming calls, hand-held, I'd leave the phone easily accessible in the little cubbyhole in the centre console, not in my pocket. I'd lift it into my line of sight and locate the the big green button, then apply to ear.

    But it's safer to leave it to go to voicemail, which is what I do now (and yes I have Bluetooth).

  18. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    1. How many "millions" were invested by the auto industry? IME Bluetooth has been an (expensive) option, so the customer pays.
    I don’t understand that statement, BT is integrated into the ASIC and is effectively a freebie to the manufacturer.

  19. #369
    Double post.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 19th August 2019 at 20:25.

  20. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    That's where you're wrong, the conversation is a lot more distracting.



    The scenario is unrealistic. If I was planning to answer incoming calls, hand-held, I'd leave the phone easily accessible in the little cubbyhole in the centre console, not in my pocket. I'd lift it into my line of sight and locate the the big green button, then apply to ear.

    But it's safer to leave it to go to voicemail, which is what I do now (and yes I have Bluetooth).
    Unrealistic, of course is it.

  21. #371
    No it's not a completely different issue, if it was I wouldn't be on here now.....the original Rospa link he supplied states that using a handheld includes using it to transmit written text. So it's very relevant to this thread.

    The definition of a hand-held mobile phone
    The Regulation includes any “device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactivecommunication function by transmitting and receiving data”.
    It states that a “mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held atsome point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactivecommunication function”. "Interactive communication function" includes:
    (i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;
    (iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and(iv) providing access to the internet

  22. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I don’t understand that statement, BT is integrated into the ASIC and is effectively a freebie to the manufacturer.
    Try speccing a new BMW or Porsche 5-15 years ago. It's only recently they've stopped charging £500+ for Bluetooth hands-free.

  23. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    No it's not a completely different issue, if it was I wouldn't be on here now.....the original Rospa link he supplied states that using a handheld includes using it to transmit written text. So it's very relevant to this thread.

    The definition of a hand-held mobile phone
    The Regulation includes any “device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactivecommunication function by transmitting and receiving data”.
    It states that a “mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held atsome point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactivecommunication function”. "Interactive communication function" includes:
    (i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;
    (iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and(iv) providing access to the internet
    It's about hands-free calls. Hands-free texts don't exist, so can't be compared.

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Make your mind up, personal opinion or fact?

    Its a fact bases upon personal experience.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  25. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    It's about hands-free calls. Hands-free texts don't exist, so can't be compared.
    Youre an idiot.

  26. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    So youre saying that holding a phone to your ear and operating a mobile phone is as dangerous as having an auto answering phone on handsfree, and you're asking me if I understand what the word distraction means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Listen we won't agree on this, it's pointless. I also won't agree that holding-using and texting with a handheld phone is as distracting as having an auto answering phone on handsfree/Bluetooth and holding a conversation.....it's total bo**oc*.

    Enforce the law more stringently with regards to normal handheld calls, eating and drinking and not banning something which is essentially as proved by your ROSPA website less distracting than sat nav and other in car tech.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    1. Evidence?
    2. The ROSPA website isn't mine and proves no such thing.
    [QUOTE=Franky Four Fingers;5177654]Evidence for what? That holding and actually using a phone which includes texting, calling etc is more distracting that having a phone connected on handsfree, having the call autoconnect and all you have to do is talk?

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're right, it's not rubbish.....it's total pap[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    Yes, evidence for that. Because the available evidence shows you are wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post

    You should re-read the Highway Code about footwear, and this.

    https://www.themotoringlaw.uk/driving-in-heels/
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don't drive in heels and didn't bring that up but thanks I will bear that in mind.

    I couldnt give a rats arse about the evidence....you can make stats and evidence match anything you wish driven by any given agenda. If you just thought about what appears to be hitching your pants up for one second. Operation a mobile phone in your hands, using the keyboard, texting, social media is more distracting than talking on an auto answering handsfree call. The fact you can't get that is quite staggering. In fact id say it's bewildering why you don't get that.
    Time and time again is been hightlighted to you about the meaning of a handheld device and the use there of. In your own admission above you agreed and actually said 'yes evidence of that'

  27. #377
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    In 2017 there were 1793 deaths in road accidents.

    27%, which is 484, were due to not wearing a seatbelt. This is currently law and it is illegal to drive without a seatbelt (unless you are a taxi driver!). The seatbelt law is almost not enforceable and it relies on sensible people having a conscience to wear it. The scrotes and ner-do-well's have a different view.

    The same year there were 33 deaths attributed to mobile phone usage (an increase of 1 from the previous year) - which is currently legal via hands free.

    There is clearly a disproportionate amount of angst here - seat belts are mandatory and the death rate is not good, hands free is currently allowed and the numbers are comparatively low but there is much hand wringing?

    As I said earlier - it's a false flag. It's not high risk, nor does it render the driver unable to concentrate.

    Almost impossible to enforce on the fly. For anybody involved in an accident it is routine to examine the mobile phone records, but this is post accident and hardly positive enforcement.
    Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 19th August 2019 at 23:26.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  28. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    27%, which is 484, were due to not wearing a seatbelt. [...] The same year there were 33 deaths attributed to mobile phone usage
    They aren't really comparable statistics though, are they? Not wearing a seatbelt is not the primary cause of the accident; it's a secondary effect, whereas mobile phone usage is a primary cause of death. In other words, nobody dies just because they are not wearing a seatbelt - they die because they were not wearing a seatbelt AND the vehicle was involved in a collision (possibly even due to mobile phone usage).

    Of course there are lots of other things which could also be done to improve road safety, but the existing legislation on mobile phone usage makes no sense. Currently there are two equally dangerous activities, but handsheld phone calls are not illegal while handsfree one are. So the law needs to either (1) make both handsfree and handheld calls illegal, or (2) make both handsfree and handheld calls legal. I know which of these I would prefer.

  29. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Youre an idiot.
    Third meltdown in three days. You'll look back with pride.

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    Third meltdown in three days. You'll look back with pride.
    Having read the RoSPA link that you posted, there’s nothing about the physical act of actually finding and picking up the phone so I’m that respect, you’re wrong to say the evidence proves it’s equally distracting.

    The actual discussion on the phone is equally distracting whether by hands free or not though so in that part you are correct. What it also mentions is that there is a variation in distraction levels dependent on the technical level of the conversation.

    There is also no mentioning of any research regarding texting, although I don’t think anyone will disagree that texting whilst driving is far more distracting/dangerous than holding a telephone conversation.

  31. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Its a fact bases upon personal experience.
    Not how facts ‘work’.

  32. #382
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    What exactly is the problem?

    Something is currently not legal; don’t do it.

    Something else is currently legal; you can do it, even if it’s not necessarily a great idea.

    If that thing becomes illegal, stop doing it.

    That seems pretty straightforward to me.


    Sent from my calculator using a lawnmower.

  33. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Having read the RoSPA link that you posted, there’s nothing about the physical act of actually finding and picking up the phone so I’m that respect, you’re wrong to say the evidence proves it’s equally distracting.
    Anybody with any common sense will leave their phone somewhere handy so they can pick it up without having to look or rummage for it. Centre console seems a likely choice, but it could be a door pocket. The effect is clearly negligible because it turns out that hands-free calls are equally dangerous.

  34. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    Anybody with any common sense will leave their phone somewhere handy so they can pick it up without having to look or rummage for it. Centre console seems a likely choice, but it could be a door pocket. The effect is clearly negligible because it turns out that hands-free calls are equally dangerous.
    There you go again- if it’s in a door pocket or console you have to find the bloody thing, pick it up, place it in your field of vision and operate it- where as clicking a button and talking for handsfree- you’re dilusional.

  35. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    There you go again- if it’s in a door pocket or console you have to find the bloody thing, pick it up, place it in your field of vision and operate it- where as clicking a button and talking for handsfree- you’re dilusional.
    I can find the gear lever without looking for it. I'm also pretty handy with the wipers, btw.

    If finding and picking up a phone (also putting it down again afterwards) had any significant effect on safety, hand-held calls would be more dangerous than hands-free. But they are not, so it doesn't.

  36. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I can find the gear lever without looking for it. I'm also pretty handy with the wipers, btw.

    If finding and picking up a phone (also putting it down again afterwards) had any significant effect on safety, hand-held calls would be more dangerous than hands-free. But they are not, so it doesn't.
    Of course you do because you know how to drive, you put your hand down and change gear. Totally different scenario with a phone and to believe otherwise clearly suggests you’re grasping at straws

  37. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post

    If finding and picking up a phone (also putting it down again afterwards) had any significant effect on safety, hand-held calls would be more dangerous than hands-free. But they are not, so it doesn't.
    As I said previously, the evidence YOU linked to, only studied the actual distraction due to the conversation. It makes no mention of finding and picking up the phone. That wasn’t part of the study!

    You constantly repeating the same thing over and over doesn’t make it any more true, particularly when the evidence you’ve provided doesn’t support it. It only supports it during the actual conversation.

  38. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Of course you do because you know how to drive, you put your hand down and change gear. Totally different scenario with a phone and to believe otherwise clearly suggests you’re grasping at straws
    I'm grasping at phones, in a virtual world. What fun this has been.

  39. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I'm grasping at phones, in a virtual world. What fun this has been.
    Everytime you’re faced with something which blows your point apart you revert to this type of thing.
    From the very start you’ve missed the point time and time again.

  40. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    As I said previously, the evidence YOU linked to, only studied the actual distraction due to the conversation. It makes no mention of finding and picking up the phone. That wasn’t part of the study!

    You constantly repeating the same thing over and over doesn’t make it any more true, particularly when the evidence you’ve provided doesn’t support it. It only supports it during the actual conversation.
    Read this from the WHO:



    https://www.who.int/violence_injury_...ng_en.pdf?ua=1

    Page 26.

  41. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Everytime you’re faced with something which blows your point apart you revert to this type of thing.
    From the very start you’ve missed the point time and time again.
    You will have to find data showing that hand-held calls are actually more dangerous. Simply saying "it stands to reason" over and over isn't doing much.

    Groundhog thread.

  42. #392
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    Let´s look at it from a different angle.

    Would you make a phone call when setting a fast lap on a track day? Handheld perhaps?

    Now, a track is ever so much less complicated than the public road.

  43. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    Yes, but once again it’s referring to the distraction of the conversation (and holding the phone to one’s ear which is probably negligible), it fails to mention what, if any, studies were carried out on the differences of getting into and out of the conversation ie. whether finding the phone and answering it is any more distracting than pressing the answer button on the steering wheel.

    The studies make no mention of this part of the process.

  44. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    You will have to find data showing that hand-held calls are actually more dangerous. Simply saying "it stands to reason" over and over isn't doing much.

    Groundhog thread.
    From the very start you’ve missed the point time and time again.

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    I can find the gear lever without looking for it. I'm also pretty handy with the wipers, btw.

    If finding and picking up a phone (also putting it down again afterwards) had any significant effect on safety, hand-held calls would be more dangerous than hands-free. But they are not, so it doesn't.
    Ffs, answer this question. Forget about ‘the reports’ I’m asking YOU, your opinion. Is reaching down, picking up a phone, looking at the screen to unlock it, then holding it against your ear with one hand (making the changing of gears more difficult) then ending the call and placing the phone back where it was, MORE distracting or LESS distracting than simply pressing a button on your steering wheel?
    Now please don’t deflect, give me your opinion.

  46. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Ffs, answer this question. Forget about ‘the reports’ I’m asking YOU, your opinion. Is reaching down, picking up a phone, looking at the screen to unlock it, then holding it against your ear with one hand (making the changing of gears more difficult) then ending the call and placing the phone back where it was, MORE distracting or LESS distracting than simply pressing a button on your steering wheel?
    Now please don’t deflect, give me your opinion.
    Why speculate when there is data?

    From the WHO document:

    Althoughthis may seem counterintuitive, evidence showing that it is the cognitive distraction that has the most impact upon driving performance may explain why using a hands-free mobile phone may be as likely to cause a crash as using a hand-held mobile phone
    Isn't science wonderful? We used to think the earth was flat (it stood to reason), but then we found out that it isn't.

  47. #397
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    You will have to find data showing that hand-held calls are actually more dangerous. Simply saying "it stands to reason" over and over isn't doing much.

    Groundhog thread.
    But I think this is the point, sticking rigidly to the study without making a common sense approach to it is a bit odd, I’m sure there are no specific studies to say driving when juggling hamsters whilst wearing a red shirt exist, but you could take it on yourself to believe it to be a dangerous distraction, similarly you should be able to use common sense to admit that using a handheld mobile to be more of a risk than a hands free phone. Statistically the accident rate for people having a incident whilst using a hands free phone call that is a direct cause of that call must be statistically tiny considering the millions of hands free calls that are made daily. I think ‘it stands to reason’ is a perfectly valid view when you use common sense in a situation.
    The bigger picture is that there are so many more contributors to accidents than using a hands free mobile phone, crap driving, driving in the rain, at night etc.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  48. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Statistically the accident rate for people having a incident whilst using a hands free phone call that is a direct cause of that call must be statistically tiny considering the millions of hands free calls that are made daily. I think ‘it stands to reason’ is a perfectly valid view when you use common sense in a situation.
    Statistically, you are four times more likely to crash when talking on the phone. Hands-free or hand-held, there is no statistical difference. This is the entire point of this tedious thread. You might expect hand-held to be worse, turns out that it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The bigger picture is that there are so many more contributors to accidents than using a hands free mobile phone, crap driving, driving in the rain, at night etc.
    Of course, but let's tackle the dangers that we can influence. Or do we just give up?
    Last edited by Holsterman; 20th August 2019 at 12:24.

  49. #399
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    Why speculate when there is data?

    From the WHO document:



    Isn't science wonderful? We used to think the earth was flat (it stood to reason), but then we found out that it isn't.
    MAY BE AS LIKELY...

    Even the WHO document you’re referencing doesn’t state it’s s fact!

    Your not a member/ex member of the police force by any chance are you?

  50. #400
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    He's winding you up and will not ever answer your questions as I'm sure you know.

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