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Thread: Property investment ideas in the Uk

  1. #1
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    Property investment ideas in the Uk

    Evening gents ,

    I’ve been recently looking to invest in a property in the Uk and have been scouring the internet looking at property auctions . Some of the areas I’ve been looking at are Birmingham , Liverpool and Sheffield

    Initially I wanted to invest in london as I’m a Londoner and it would be easier to manage and deal with any issues easier but unfortunately property prices in london would mean I’d have to take out a significant mortgage on a property , which I’ve decided against .

    I’m sure many on here are either property investors or have a few properties that they own on the side , so really I’m looking for some advise .

    I have approximately 100k or just over to invest and would like some ideas , where is a good idea to invest at the moment ? How to go about managing a refurb and ongoing property management on a property where you don’t live close by ? Best areas for capital growth and rental returns on your money ?

    Thanks guys


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  2. #2
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    I think that boat may have sailed. HMRC and letting regs have probably killed the market for new entrants. I've owned several BTLs and would certainly not re-enter the market now. And not with £100k which would require additional lending to buy anything half decent that would attract decent tenants (which are the only sort to have).

    Try posting on this forum - MSE The House Buying, Renting & Selling Board , there are a lot of knowledgable people there.

  3. #3
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    I own a small portfolio as an additional income and in all honesty if I had the knowledge at the time I would’ve invested elsewhere.

    I can’t see 100k getting you far unless your prepared to invest up here in the NE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSlow View Post
    I own a small portfolio as an additional income and in all honesty if I had the knowledge at the time I would’ve invested elsewhere.

    I can’t see 100k getting you far unless your prepared to invest up here in the NE.
    I’ve also looked at Newcastle and Durham , it looks quite possible to get a return of around £500 per month for a property bought for around 80-85k , is that about right ?


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  5. #5
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    £100k is not going to get you much if you include sorting it out to be marketable and you ned to factor in maintenance etc.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlies View Post
    I’ve also looked at Newcastle and Durham , it looks quite possible to get a return of around £500 per month for a property bought for around 80-85k , is that about right ?


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    From experience the 80-85k properties will need around 10k spent on them.

  7. #7
    Master senraw's Avatar
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    If you struggle to find a suitable property..
    I know a man that would quite possibly part with 4 double reds for 100K.. ;)

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  8. #8
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    No sooner had I replied, I saw this post over on MSE. Same question ..

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com....php?t=6035121

  9. #9
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    The glory days of BTL are well and truly over because you no longer get tax relief on the mortgage interest. Buying a £100K will only buy you a shack and the rental and appreciation will be crap. A £100k property is rubbish and will still be rubbish in five years from now. The tenants who chose to live in a place like that will be on a low income and unreliable.

    You best bet is to either invest the money in a tracker or in your own home either by reducing your mortgage or buying a more expensive house.

    That way your standard of living goes up and your asset base also goes up and you won't have a worry in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broxie View Post
    No sooner had I replied, I saw this post over on MSE. Same question ..

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com....php?t=6035121
    I noticed that too but no replies as of yet


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    The glory days of BTL are well and truly over because you no longer get tax relief on the mortgage interest. Buying a £100K will only buy you a shack and the rental and appreciation will be crap. A £100k property is rubbish and will still be rubbish in five years from now. The tenants who chose to live in a place like that will be on a low income and unreliable.

    You best bet is to either invest the money in a tracker or in your own home either by reducing your mortgage or buying a more expensive house.

    That way your standard of living goes up and your asset base also goes up and you won't have a worry in the world.


    I have considered moving and adding value to my property , however the cost of selling a property in london with a value of around 1m and upgrading to anything better will take up most of the 100k in fees , solicitors , stamp duties and selling commission


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    The glory days of BTL are well and truly over because you no longer get tax relief on the mortgage interest.
    That’s wrong information. You do still get tax relief but going forward it will only be at the lower rate. If you are a higher rate tax payer you used to be able to claim it at the highest rate. It’s being phased out from higher to lower over 4 years so if you are higher rate bare that in mind.

    That said the BTL isn’t anywhere near the great investment it once was, especially with the extra stamp duty, reducing tax relief (as above) and changes in legislation. Property prices are fairly stagnant and will be for some years in my view. I’m not saying don’t buy an investment property but if you do you need to look at it as a 10 year or longer view.

    For what it’s worth this is an area that I’ve specialised in for around 25 years. I’ve got a reasonable portfolio of properties and I have 6 mortgage advisors in my company and the bulk of work is in the BTL/investment property. I’ve personally sold 3 properties in the last few months as I’m taking a more cautious approach to finance than ever before as I just don’t like the global economic climate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonian View Post
    That’s wrong information. You do still get tax relief but going forward it will only be at the lower rate. If you are a higher rate tax payer you used to be able to claim it at the highest rate. It’s being phased out from higher to lower over 4 years so if you are higher rate bare that in mind.

    That said the BTL isn’t anywhere near the great investment it once was, especially with the extra stamp duty, reducing tax relief (as above) and changes in legislation. Property prices are fairly stagnant and will be for some years in my view. I’m not saying don’t buy an investment property but if you do you need to look at it as a 10 year or longer view.

    For what it’s worth this is an area that I’ve specialised in for around 25 years. I’ve got a reasonable portfolio of properties and I have 6 mortgage advisors in my company and the bulk of work is in the BTL/investment property. I’ve personally sold 3 properties in the last few months as I’m taking a more cautious approach to finance than ever before as I just don’t like the global economic climate.
    Thank you for the info , I’m simply looking for a better return than the close to nothing I’m getting from the bank , so a return of £500 per month with no loan or interest to pay is what I’m after , where in the country would you be looking if you were me ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by charlies View Post
    Thank you for the info , I’m simply looking for a better return than the close to nothing I’m getting from the bank , so a return of £500 per month with no loan or interest to pay is what I’m after , where in the country would you be looking if you were me ?


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    I was always told not to hold a rental you can't drive to within half an hour. If you can't, or are looking abroad, make sure you have somebody you trust who can.

  15. #15
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    Perhaps a garage or small warehouse on in a remote farm or commercial estate?

    Fas est ab hoste doceri

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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Perhaps a garage or small warehouse on in a remote farm or commercial estate?

    Excellent idea! I mean it's seasonal but that Christmas tree farm lookss great.

  17. #17
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    I have a few rental properties here in NI, all local to me in Co Down. I recently let a semi valued at 155k for 775 pcm, so a fair return IMHO. Most rentals are in this sort of ball park here, but appreciate that this may be a bit far away for you.

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  18. #18
    I have property in the midlands and live a few hours away - even if i lived round the corner I wouldn’t want to be going round for any reason. Your 100k property would get 5-600 per month but factor in management and (potential) maintenance which is easy to arrange over the telephone or email via a letting agent - Remember it’s not your house it’s just an investment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr G Imp View Post
    Remember it’s not your house it’s just an investment.
    And a fairly illiquid investment too. The problem with cheap houses is generally the costs of running it remain the same, replacement boiler, leaky roof etc compared to a £500k house. Except those running cost bills form a much higher % of your income.

    I'd make sure all your other finances were in place first, ie no expensive debt, a three month rainy day fund in place etc. 6% gross returns might sound attractive compared to the 1.5% you get in the bank but entry and exit costs are high, running costs full of potential risk. That's before you factor in voids, prep costs, non paying tenants etc.

    If you're looking at a ten year plus plan, depending I'd personally bung it in a SIPP and claim some tax back. Long term, the stock market will do you better unless you were gambling on some property price inflation in the meantime?

  20. #20
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    It still seems a pretty solid way to invest if you're looking to get a steady income for, say, 25 years on a lump of money and still have your initial investment to liquidate at the end (hopefully with some appreciation).

    It's no longer a get rich quick venture, but perhaps a solid one for a pension.

    That said, I wouldn't take a big mortgage (if any) out on a BTL.

  21. #21
    the money being spent in the areas you are looking at is going to get you the type of tenants that will cause you many headaches and money in the long run.
    ...i'd invest it elsewhere as others have said .

  22. #22
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    I had a look at this lately and was surprised by one proposition that the mortgage broker put to me and which evidently is common enough

    Use. the cash as deposit. So for example you could buy 2 x £150,000 properties with £50k deposits and take the rest on interest only BTL mortgages which were cheap. As I recall it was about half the rental income. That makes the remaining half a notional profit.

    I haven’t got my notes with me of the fine details but if you’re getting £250/month profit on your £50K that’s not bad.

    Apparently investors are seeing this as a 10 year plan and it’s not to do with owning property as an asset but using the £50k through these means to do better than the bank.

    Obviously if the property reduces in value when you dispose/redeem then it knocks a hole in the plan.

    I didn’t do it as I wanted to have some diversified investments and I preferred to own the properties as assets.

    The proposition seemed sound to me.

  23. #23
    Have you though about here on Anglesey?

    You'd get the same annual return on a small holiday let as sitting tenant would you in 12 months if not more, and get an agency to look after it.

    A bolt hole for you also!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robsmck View Post
    I have a few rental properties here in NI, all local to me in Co Down. I recently let a semi valued at 155k for 775 pcm, so a fair return IMHO. Most rentals are in this sort of ball park here, but appreciate that this may be a bit far away for you.

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    £500-520 pcm on £70-85k investment if you go a little more rural (Tyrone)

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ichaice View Post
    What type of place could you get there for £100k?
    Take a look on rightmove, you won’t get much in the popular tourist areas like where I live but you could get a small house in one of the quite villages, very popular with walkers. Think Lake District!

  26. #26
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    As someone above mentioned a SIPP, what about that as an option for putting some money in? In this particular case how about commercial property? I know a lot of people who buy industrial units in their pension funds - some to run their businesses from and some to rent out to get a good return. I’ve done it myself as well.

    It’s quite complex to explain in detail but can be very beneficial. One of the biggest advantages is not having to sell it at retirement. Keep it in there and the rent effectively is part of your retirement. To give you a real life example - purchase price 225k - rent 16k per annum - repairing lease over 10 years with 3 year rent reviews. Similar one - two units next to each other bought for 100k each - 7.5k rent on each one.

    There’s LOADS to consider and understand - property is illiquid for example, not finding a tenant, following HMRC rules especially if it’s a connected party transaction (as mine is because I sold a building to my SIPP), spread of assets in your SIPP, you can only borrow 50% of what’s in your pension etc etc but for the right person it’s possibly the best thing you could do with your pension and/or building for the future. The tax relief, tax free growth and benefits in drawdown are really worth exploring. You need to find a competent local IFA who specialises in this area and can explain the negatives as in depth as the positives.

  27. #27
    Wouldn’t bother these days...partly for the hassle, partly because you’ll pay most of your profit away in taxes one way or another.
    I have interests in several properties but will “soft exit”over the next 2-5 years. Consolidate and pull up the drawbridge I think.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by GOAT View Post
    Wouldn’t bother these days...partly for the hassle, partly because you’ll pay most of your profit away in taxes one way or another.
    I have interests in several properties but will “soft exit”over the next 2-5 years. Consolidate and pull up the drawbridge I think.
    There is a 50/50 chance of getting troublesome tenants that’s for sure! Although you can set your own parameters of course. Knowing the area and your client base is useful eg: near a large hospital/university/city centre - aim for single professionals as it’s a small place your buying for 100k and market for that.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSlow View Post
    I own a small portfolio as an additional income and in all honesty if I had the knowledge at the time I would’ve invested elsewhere.
    Can you elaborate a bit on this?

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    OP mentioned Sheffield, can still get a 2 up 2 down here in Rotherham for 50k.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
    OP mentioned Sheffield, can still get a 2 up 2 down here in Rotherham for 50k.
    With correspondingly low rents to match - https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...-73139299.html

    As mentioned by others, you really need to consider the quality of tenant you’ll get at the bottom end of the market.

    Gearing the money with a 60% LTV BTL mortgage gets you £250k to spend. If you can nett more than the mortgage interest rate on the borrowed portion then you’ll have some income but I still wouldn’t go into the market nowadays.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
    OP mentioned Sheffield, can still get a 2 up 2 down here in Rotherham for 50k.

    Talking of Rotherham, I have a large portfolio in the area, some of which I'm about to liquidate owing to impending retirement. How does this sound?....

    TWO two bedroomed flats, each with their own garage and you can have the pair for your £100k. One minute walk from lovely park. Current rents are £350-£375 a month each...so around £750 a month for both. The building is well managed (I also own the freehold).

    Obviously, they're not the best flats in the world, but not the worst either, and decent returns. Let me know if you're interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    Talking of Rotherham, I have a large portfolio in the area, some of which I'm about to liquidate owing to impending retirement. How does this sound?....

    TWO two bedroomed flats, each with their own garage and you can have the pair for your £100k. One minute walk from lovely park. Current rents are £350-£375 a month each...so around £750 a month for both. The building is well managed (I also own the freehold).

    Obviously, they're not the best flats in the world, but not the worst either, and decent returns. Let me know if you're interested.
    Food for thought , will do my homework of the area


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  34. #34
    Coventry. The uni is expanding and so is Warwick uni. Rent to students, you can make a killing on the monthly rent. My brother is looking and Liverpool is high on his list.

  35. #35
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    I still think property investment is a good choice, but it has to be right, remember, as with anything, you make your money when buying.
    A lot depends on what you're looking for out of an investment, returns annually/Monthly or over a set period that you determine.
    Anything is better than a bank, most of them take the P**s with anything they offer.
    I'd go for what you feel most comfortable with, if you're ok with looking after property, if it's close enough, then go for it, if you want to dabble on the stock market, fine, I think you know what I mean.
    We have a few properties here in the Gloucester area, and apart from one, they have all got very good tenants in, ( but we are sorting the rogue one out ), we also have a mixture of shops, flats and houses, so eggs are not all in one basket.
    We are fortunate enough to not have any mortgages outstanding on them so maybe a bit different from most investors.
    I'll throw out a curve ball, have you considered a holiday let, or a future classic car, or is that confusing matters.
    Or GOLD!!!!!

  36. #36

    A thought

    A neighbour of mine has a small property near the NEC - doeswnt rent it out fully - but does it through AIRBNB

    The rates are astounding - and it is usually full - she doiesnt care really if its workmen (often the case)

  37. #37
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    I hear a lot of landlords asking what the maximum return is. Someone like me, in social housing, would be happy to rent the right property in the private sector for a sensible rent. The last place I rented the landlord described me as the best tenant he had ever had. He didn’t want me to go. Had he offered to reduce rent I might still be there now, 15 years later. Instead he has had years of mixed fortunes and months of voids.

    From this side of the fence I would say that the right tenant paying less in the longer term is more important than maxing out the profit.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    I hear a lot of landlords asking what the maximum return is. Someone like me, in social housing, would be happy to rent the right property in the private sector for a sensible rent. The last place I rented the landlord described me as the best tenant he had ever had. He didn’t want me to go. Had he offered to reduce rent I might still be there now, 15 years later. Instead he has had years of mixed fortunes and months of voids.

    From this side of the fence I would say that the right tenant paying less in the longer term is more important than maxing out the profit.
    As an ex landlord, I can only agree with you.

    A good tenant who looks after the property and pays his rent on time is far more important than maximising returns.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by marcus fenix View Post
    Rent to students, you can make a killing on the monthly rent.
    Why’s that? Students have more money and pay higher rents than market would normally bear?


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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Why’s that? Students have more money and pay higher rents than market would normally bear?


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    I’d guess it’s turning every available room into a bedroom and running it as an HMO. Four students will pay a lot more than one family.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    As an ex landlord, I can only agree with you.

    A good tenant who looks after the property and pays his rent on time is far more important than maximising returns.

    Absolutely. We have some tenants who haven't had a rent increase in well over a decade. A bad tenant can wipe out a years rent easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Why’s that? Students have more money and pay higher rents than market would normally bear?


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    I don't rent to students but suspect it's because you can cram more of them into squalid conditions than normal people would put up with!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    I hear a lot of landlords asking what the maximum return is. Someone like me, in social housing, would be happy to rent the right property in the private sector for a sensible rent. The last place I rented the landlord described me as the best tenant he had ever had. He didn’t want me to go. Had he offered to reduce rent I might still be there now, 15 years later. Instead he has had years of mixed fortunes and months of voids.

    From this side of the fence I would say that the right tenant paying less in the longer term is more important than maxing out the profit.
    100%. I rent my flat out for less than market value as the tenant is decent and crucially, hassle free.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post

    I don't rent to students but suspect it's because you can cram more of them into squalid conditions than normal people would put up with!
    Like HMO's. My father in law does this and it's a full time job just keeping the places serviceable.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    Like HMO's. My father in law does this and it's a full time job just keeping the places serviceable.
    We've considered HMO's in the past but decided that long term tenants who see their houses as homes are the way forward for us, we're playing the 'long game' on this, our rents in any given area aren't the highest and we encourage tenants to talk to us about any issues including them investing time and effort into improvements of their homes, we benefit from stability of tenants, clean tidy maintained houses, continuity of rents and when properties do come empty personal recommendations for new tenants.
    Last edited by number2; 13th August 2019 at 08:30.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  45. #45
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    We looked at buying properties to let out but in the end decided it would be more work than we wanted, especially given one bad tenant could easily wipe out a years income.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    We looked at buying properties to let out but in the end decided it would be more work than we wanted, especially given one bad tenant could easily wipe out a years income.
    This is true and the reason we've decided upon our particular model,
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  47. #47
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    Good to see some enlightenment amongst the landlords. In a previous private rent I was living in not much more than a semi-detached wooden shack. The heating was controlled by the estate manager, and even as someone who doesn’t like it hot, it really was at the edge of uncomfortable. The grass was rarely cut when it should have been, and the rent was increased every 6 months no matter how well you kept the place. It was a lovely location though in the countryside, but next to a small industrial estate of small units doing quiet artisanal work. In the end it was the rent rises that made me move away to Shetland in the hope of property ownership.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    This is true and the reason we've decided upon our particular model,
    If we were younger, then perhaps looking for reasonable long term tenants would have been the answer. A friend in Rugby has around 20 lets and has a similar philosophy, even having a couple of tenants who will do some maintenance work on them in return for cheaper rents.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    Good to see some enlightenment amongst the landlords. In a previous private rent I was living in not much more than a semi-detached wooden shack. The heating was controlled by the estate manager, and even as someone who doesn’t like it hot, it really was at the edge of uncomfortable. The grass was rarely cut when it should have been, and the rent was increased every 6 months no matter how well you kept the place.
    If you have a decent amount of private rented (or any rented) supply, bad landlords shouldn't be able to survive; competition and tenant choice should support a market that works for all. Recent changes in legislation (as well as local councils introducing licensing) are more likely to drive out the good landlords than the bad.

    I don't think that my business partner/friend and I have ever increased the rent for an existing tenant. An occupied and well looked after property is worth a lot more that a few extra £ and high turnover.

  50. #50
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    706
    Quote Originally Posted by Weirdfish View Post
    I'll throw out a curve ball, have you considered a holiday let, or a future classic car, or is that confusing matters.
    Or GOLD!!!!!
    I think the classic car bubble has probably burst

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