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Thread: Disappointed by Canon Ixus 180...

  1. #1
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Disappointed by Canon Ixus 180...

    Now don't laugh all you professional and expert photographers....

    I've had a little Ixus 100 IS for some time. It is entirely sufficient for my amateur snaps here and there. But the main thing I like about the Ixus 100 IS is that it has a nice metal body and feels very solid. It feels like it can take some abuse in the real world (and it has done).

    Anyway, I recently bought a secondhand Ixus 180. Same series of camera, much more recent model, higher resolution, more zoom. Ok, sounds nice, but I have discovered that it has a worryingly cheap and vulnerable-seeming plastic case! What the hell, Canon?

    Looking on the bottom, I see that the 100 was made in Japan but the 180 was made in China. Now there's nothing wrong with Chinese manufacturing but, together with the seemingly weaker (and definitely cheaper-feeling plastic case) it does irk me. It just... disappoints me.

    I've not even looked at the image quality yet.

    Maybe I should just get into the mindset of these being throw away items (expensive throw away items though, imo!). Compact cameras like these are on their way out now anyway... being killed off by phones. All the same, disappointed.

    Suppose I want a 20MP, 10x zoom, metal case compact camera (older models are fine), can anyone suggest make or model I should be looking at?

  2. #2
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Canon powershot 'G' series are very robust. I have a old G9 and its a metal body, I don't know if the more up to date ones do though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_PowerShot_G
    Cheers..
    Jase

  3. #3
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Canon powershot 'G' series are very robust. I have a old G9 and its a metal body, I don't know if the more up to date ones do though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_PowerShot_G
    Thanks for that. I've looked at the G series recently and they cover a lot of ground.

    Frustratingly all of the G series appear to be a little bulkier than the Ixus series (or discontinued PowerShot A series) cameras. However, I can see the logic from Canon's perspective: The Ixus series of point and clicks are losing ground to phone cameras. It makes sense therefore for Canon to put effort into differentiating the G series with more sophisticated features, better sensors, lenses, etc. I predict that the Ixus series will join the PowerShot A series in being discontinued fairly soon.

    I note that there is also the PowerShot SX620 HS. This is a compendably compact camera but I'm not sure of it has a metal body.

    Is it just me or are Canon's camera ranges a confused, overlapping mess?

    As an aside, I've noticed that a sure indicator of something going out of fashion in the real world is when its Wikipedia entry is not updated. I saw this with the Ixus range product listing table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Digital_IXUS. The most recent models were not listed at all and there were gaps in the information. If it looks complete now it's because I spent a couple of hours bringing it up to date. ;-)

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    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Have you considered Sony or Panasonic alternatives? Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ100EB looks like a very competent camera, plus it has a viewfinder which is a great help in direct sunshine, not that we have much of it really.. If you're after a long zoom, Canon SX740 HS has 40x which should be handy for shooting wildlife, planes etc
    Is it me or since Jeremy Corbyn came out in support of blocking no deal Brexit, asking EU for another extension and opposing general election he is no longer being portrayed as anti-semite?

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    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    Have you considered Sony or Panasonic alternatives? Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ100EB looks like a very competent camera, plus it has a viewfinder which is a great help in direct sunshine, not that we have much of it really.. If you're after a long zoom, Canon SX740 HS has 40x which should be handy for shooting wildlife, planes etc
    Thanks! Yup, I have considered them, as well as Nikon. Thing is, I'm familiar with Canon and so it feels like a big step to move to another manufacturer. Not as big a step as with SLRs though, of course. ;-)

    It so happens that I've got a Canon PowerShot SX610 HS on its way from eBay. As I understand it, the SX6xx range is similar to the better SX7xx range but without manual controls. In terms of my requirements for a compact camera, lack of manual controls may well be acceptable. The SX610 is an older model but still with reasonable performance.

    My Ixus 180 whinge was specifically in the context of getting a new compact camera to replace my rather old Ixus 100 IS. Maybe the SX610 (or later SX620 model) will do, or perhaps I'll prefer to go for a SX710, SX720, SX730 or SX740. I'll see how I get on with the SX610 first.

    Separately, I also have a requirement for a more general purpose camera (to replace my old PowerShot Pro1 on which I recently damaged the CF card reader pins ) and for this requirement superzoom would be useful and a bulkier bridge-style camera is acceptable to me. In fact I do photograph aircraft quite a lot. For this general purpose/zoom role I have recently acquired a second hand PowerShot SX40 HS. For my purposes so far, this seems to be a very good camera. With no special effort by me image quality is far better than with the Pro1. Newer models in this sub-range are the SX50, SX60 and SX70. In due course I'll upgrade from the SX40 to an SX60 or SX70.

    However, it is possible that the compact form factor SX7xx range might be able to fulfill my compact camera requirement and my general purpose/zoom camera requirement, all in one. We'll see, depending on my experience with the new cameras I've already got and have coming in soon.

    Simple, eh? ;-)

    As for Nikon, I am also tempted by the bridge form factor P900 and P1000. Whilst both these cameras are criticised for relatively poor image quality, I've seen lots of pics and videos from them on Youtube and it seems good enough for my purpose. However, I think I'll evaluate the Canon models I'm soon going to have my hands on before I try to acquire a P900 or P1000.

    And I still haven't given Sony or Panasonic the attention they deserve. In due course, I hope.

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    The bridge cameras are good, but they are quite big.

    Two I'd suggest looking at, one is the RX100 series of Sony cameras. Very good image quality. pocketable, and more trick modes than you can shake a stick at.
    It's bad that I can remember the RX100, but not the camera I own! I think it's the HX90, which is also pocketable, but has a really long zoon - around 700mm 35mm equivalent I think. It's very handy to pop in a pocket, as it can get wide angle shots, but also close up zooms of wildlife and the like.

    These days I find that the HX90 and the Fuji X70 cover everything I want to photograph, the Nikon kit has been sat in the cupboard.

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    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    The bridge cameras are good, but they are quite big.
    Yes, they are bulky (although not as bulky as SLRs of course) but I can tolerate this in the role I use them in. That is to say say general purpose photography, tripod, long range handheld. I'd say that my compact camera requirement comes in a different mental category. ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    Two I'd suggest looking at, one is the RX100 series of Sony cameras. Very good image quality. pocketable, and more trick modes than you can shake a stick at.
    It's bad that I can remember the RX100, but not the camera I own! I think it's the HX90, which is also pocketable, but has a really long zoon - around 700mm 35mm equivalent I think. It's very handy to pop in a pocket, as it can get wide angle shots, but also close up zooms of wildlife and the like.

    These days I find that the HX90 and the Fuji X70 cover everything I want to photograph
    Many thanks for this. I'm going to evaluate my current crop of Canon cameras but then I want to expand to other manufacturers, and these are some useful leads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    the Nikon kit has been sat in the cupboard.
    DSLRs, I presume? I have a hankering for a DSLR but I too have to admit that I don't have a practical role for it. It's just something I'd like for the sake of fiddling with it.

    I have an old Canon Rebel X S (US equivalent to EOS 500) film SLR and an even older Minolta X-700 and I it is possible that my SLR-ish fettling desire might be fulfilled with these two film SLRs!

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    You could do worse than a Fuji X100......a bit bigger but will fit in your pocket (jacket not trouser.....).
    Image quality (especially JPG) is first class.

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    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
    You could do worse than a Fuji X100......a bit bigger but will fit in your pocket (jacket not trouser.....).
    Image quality (especially JPG) is first class.
    Thanks for the recommendation. A very retro looking range of cameras. :-)

    I'll add these to the list to review.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    DSLRs, I presume? I have a hankering for a DSLR but I too have to admit that I don't have a practical role for it. It's just something I'd like for the sake of fiddling with it.
    Yes, currently D700. I've used everything from D200 to D4 over the years, always Nikon with a dabble in Sony A7 series. They're great, really great, just that the best camera is the one you have - my X70 literally can go in my back pocket, the Sony HX90 also fits there, or in my jacket lapel pocket. So I can always have them, plus a spare battery, and no bag to carry or decisions to make. The Nikon kit is overall 'better', but with the X70 I've never felt lacking anything.

  11. #11
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    the best camera is the one you have - my X70 literally can go in my back pocket, the Sony HX90 also fits there, or in my jacket lapel pocket. So I can always have them, plus a spare battery, and no bag to carry or decisions to make. The Nikon kit is overall 'better', but with the X70 I've never felt lacking anything.
    Yes, I know what you mean. I don't feel I am missing anything in substantive terms by not having a DSLR at present. It's just the geekiness I'd enjoy. ;-)

    Although I am a Canon person (as mentioned above I have an old Canon film SLR), I feel I might try a Nikon DSLR in future. A lot of people seem to think that fundamental image quality due to sensor and processor design choices is better with Nikon than with Canon.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 7th August 2019 at 00:38.

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    Journeyman rodia77's Avatar
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    About 3 months ago I was looking for a compact/point-and-shoot as a replacement for my phone camera. Apart from acceptable photo quality, I cared about pocketability and wireless connectivity. Long story short, as I had already had Olympus Stylus 1, models like RX100, WX350 or G9X, would have been redundant, and I started considering IXUS/ELPH (can't remember which one exactly, but I remember the EU an US model numbers differed significantly) and Olympus Tough TG-5. I ended up upgrading my phone rather than buying a camera, though. (If you're interested in details of that search and advice I received, I can PM you a link to the short thread I started on another forum).

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    Journeyman Dean Learner's Avatar
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    Iíll ad another vote for the Sony RX100 series.

    I found a custom aftermarket grip for mine (first generation) to give it a more sturdy hold in the hand which was money well spent.

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    Your IXUS was obviously designed down to a price point. Canon had to keep up with the competition in terms of facilities offered but equally had to compete on price. Hence out-sourcing construction to China, plastic body etc. You have had a lot of good suggestions for a replacement and I would give my vote to the Sony RX100 but it's not a budget camera and only you can decide what you want to spend.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Although I am a Canon person (as mentioned above I have an old Canon film SLR), I feel I might try a Nikon DSLR in future. A lot of people seem to think that fundamental image quality due to sensor and processor design choices is better with Nikon than with Canon.
    Time was Nikon and Canon traded the technical top spot back and forward, but these days Sony tends to make the best sensors, and Canon / Nikon about the same but really not much between all of them.

    Added to that I think sensors are like PCs. Remember when you used to have to upgrade your PC every two or three years as they improved rapidly? Then at a certain point they kept improving, but the performance was already good enough for 99% of what people needed them to do. In my opinion sensors are the same, have been for a few years. The new ones are better, but I'm happily shooting with a D700, an 11 year old design, and getting wonderful results. Even the 12mp sensor is better than 4K, why do I need 60mp?

    In my experience 'muscle memory' and familiarity with the camera far outweighs sensor differences. I sold my Sony kit and went back to Nikon as my fingers and thumbs just fall onto the right settings on a Nikon body. My industry is semiconductors, so I should be encouraging people to buy cameras (!!), but actually I think pretty much any camera of the last five years or so I think is already 'good enough' technically. The main issues are portability and handling I think.

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    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryboy View Post
    Your IXUS was obviously designed down to a price point. Canon had to keep up with the competition in terms of facilities offered but equally had to compete on price. Hence out-sourcing construction to China, plastic body etc.
    Oh for sure, but it still doesn't disappoint me any less. ;-)

    Indeed (in terms of compact cameras) as I mooted in #3 above, it made sense from Canon's perspective to cost engineer the Ixus series whilst investing in capabilities (and hopefully quality) with the PowerShot G series and (some of) the PowerShot SX series. It also made sense for them to discontinue the PowerShot A series which seem to me to have become indistinguishable from the Ixus series.

    Clearly Canon need to find a way of differentiating compact cameras from mobile phones, and both capability and build quality are ways to do this, this the G series and SX series are where investment in quality makes sense and it makes sense for the Ixus series to be cost engineered to the bone.

    In fact, as I also mentioned in #3, I reckon the Ixus series will be discontinued. There probably just no way to cost effectively compete against ever-improving camera phones (except by going higher cost, higher quality, and higher capability, which is the field for the G series or (some of) the SX series).

    Quote Originally Posted by Barryboy View Post
    You have had a lot of good suggestions for a replacement and I would give my vote to the Sony RX100 but it's not a budget camera and only you can decide what you want to spend.
    I'm currently evaluating a number of Canon compact cameras (Canon because I am most familiar with Canon). When I've finished, I'll do a mini comparative review here. After that, I'll be on a better position to compare capability vs. usability vs. price on a range of other cameras from other manufacturers, including the RX100. It's certainly noticeable that several people have recommended the RX100!

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    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodia77 View Post
    About 3 months ago I was looking for a compact/point-and-shoot as a replacement for my phone camera. Apart from acceptable photo quality, I cared about pocketability and wireless connectivity. Long story short, as I had already had Olympus Stylus 1, models like RX100, WX350 or G9X, would have been redundant, and I started considering IXUS/ELPH (can't remember which one exactly, but I remember the EU an US model numbers differed significantly) and Olympus Tough TG-5. I ended up upgrading my phone rather than buying a camera, though. (If you're interested in details of that search and advice I received, I can PM you a link to the short thread I started on another forum).
    Your decision to upgrade your phone instead of buying a new compact camera seems to match what a lot of people are doing, from what I can see. Compact cameras (at least in the budget area of the market) just can't compete in practical terms with phones. All the same, I would be interested in seeing the thread.

    By the way, I realise it doesn't matter for you now but I updated the Wikipedia Ixus article with all the US/Europe/Japan model number cross references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Digital_IXUS



    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Learner View Post
    Iíll ad another vote for the Sony RX100 series.
    Thanks. :-)

  18. #18
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    Time was Nikon and Canon traded the technical top spot back and forward, but these days Sony tends to make the best sensors, and Canon / Nikon about the same but really not much between all of them.

    Added to that I think sensors are like PCs. Remember when you used to have to upgrade your PC every two or three years as they improved rapidly? Then at a certain point they kept improving, but the performance was already good enough for 99% of what people needed them to do. In my opinion sensors are the same, have been for a few years. The new ones are better, but I'm happily shooting with a D700, an 11 year old design, and getting wonderful results. Even the 12mp sensor is better than 4K, why do I need 60mp?
    Yes, quite. I've bought a number of second hand cameras recently to test them and I have come to essentially this conclusion. Above a certain level, they are all 'good enough'.

    Nevertheless, there are still certain things where zoom and resolution do matter, e.g. very distant objects such as aircraft (which is one of my interests for my general purpose camera role).

    Quote Originally Posted by Senninha View Post
    In my experience 'muscle memory' and familiarity with the camera far outweighs sensor differences. I sold my Sony kit and went back to Nikon as my fingers and thumbs just fall onto the right settings on a Nikon body.
    I know what you mean.

    In this respect I am quite looking forward (in due course) to seeing how I get on with Nikon and Sony. Can I re-learn? Will I want to re-learn? We'll see.

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    Journeyman rodia77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    By the way, I realise it doesn't matter for you now but I updated the Wikipedia Ixus article with all the US/Europe/Japan model number cross references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Digital_IXUS
    Cool. If memory serves, it would be 285 HS / 360 HS that I was looking at.

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    Journeyman Dean Learner's Avatar
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    I've always used https://www.dpreview.com/ to research my camera purchases. Lots of in depth reviews and comparisons, making for easy decisions on purchases.

    Yet to be disappointed with anything recommended from this site.

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    Interesting read, I'm also looking for a new camera, a 'point and shoot', looking for something with half decent image quality for holidays

    The smaller the better for me, sometimes I don't want to be carrying my bag and DSLR around with me.
    I have a Fujifilm XP for taking to the beach and where it may get wet etc. but image quality isn't brilliant.

    I'd rather carry a decent camera than my phone on holiday, currently swaying towards a Canon G9 X mkII

  22. #22
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna1138 View Post
    I'd rather carry a decent camera than my phone on holiday, currently swaying towards a Canon G9 X mkII
    I now have the following compact cameras sitting on my desk awaiting the comparison review I promised: Canon Digital Ixus 100 IS, Canon Digital Ixus 180, Canon PowerShot A4000 IS, and Canon PowerShot SX610 HS.

    I'd have liked to to have a representative of the PowerShot SX7xx range and PowerShot G series in the line up but that hasn't happened so far. Sadly I don't have any non-Canon cameras either; they will come in the future.

    I have to say that of the four I have here they all provide perfectly fine and adequate image quality for (as far as I can see) the vast majority of holiday point and shoot photography. The smallest of the cameras I have is the Ixus 100 IS (from 2009) and if the smallest size was really your main concern then I'd recommend getting a ten year old second hand Ixus 100 IS!

    However, if you require higher sensor resolution, more zoom capability, more modern AI-inspired feature modes, more fiddly camera settings, touch screen, and things like wifi or NFC, then newer will be better in general. I believe the G series would win out on fiddly bits but not necessarily on resolution or zoom.

    The PowerShot G Series is the premium PowerShot range but, for the most part (for my purposes at least) they seem to lack specification compared to the PowerShot SX6xx and SX7xx range. I find it hard to believe that a G series camera would genuinely take a better picture than any other modern Ixus or PowerShot camera (fiddly settings stuff aside).

    Anyway, I'll proceed with a comparison of the cameras I have here and we'll see what emerges. (Don't hold your breath as I'm very busy at the moment so can't guarantee exactly when I'll get round to it).
    Last edited by markrlondon; 14th August 2019 at 05:09.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I now have the following compact cameras sitting on my desk awaiting the comparison review I promised: Canon Digital Ixus 100 IS, Canon Digital Ixus 180, Canon PowerShot A4000 IS, and Canon PowerShot SX610 HS.

    I'd have liked to to have a representative of the PowerShot SX7xx range and PowerShot G series in the line up but that hasn't happened so far. Sadly I don't have any non-Canon cameras either; they will come in the future.

    I have to say that of the four I have here they all provide perfectly fine and adequate image quality for (as far as I can see) the vast majority of holiday point and shoot photography. The smallest of the cameras I have is the Ixus 100 IS (from 2009) and if the smallest size was really your main concern then I'd recommend getting a ten year old second hand Ixus 100 IS!

    However, if you require higher sensor resolution, more zoom capability, more modern AI-inspired feature modes, more fiddly camera settings, touch screen, and things like wifi or NFC, then newer will be better in general. I believe the G series would win out on fiddly bits but not necessarily on resolution or zoom.

    The PowerShot G Series is the premium PowerShot range but, for the most part (for my purposes at least) they seem to lack specification compared to the PowerShot SX6xx and SX7xx range. I find it hard to believe that a G series camera would genuinely take a better picture than any other modern Ixus or PowerShot camera (fiddly settings stuff aside).

    Anyway, I'll proceed with a comparison of the cameras I have here and we'll see what emerges. (Don't hold your breath as I'm very busy at the moment so can't guarantee exactly when I'll get round to it).
    Cheers for your thoughts Mark,
    I agree when looking at specifications the Sx series certainly looks better on paper and obviously the Zoom is a big plus, I hadn't really looked at the SX6's as I had a 'budget' so automatically looked at the price range I was considering
    The SX7's are a bit bulkier than the G which is why I was swaying that way.
    The best compact i've had was probably my Pentax optio s5i tiny bit of kit but took cracking photo's.
    It's a minefield with so many options to consider in the point and shoot market even with the quality of phone cameras these days.
    I could end up researching forever and probably even talk myself out of getting one, but as I've ordered some Currys vouchers on a work discount scheme I'm as good as committed to getting something...

  24. #24
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, two new Canon PowerShot G-series compact cameras:

    G5 X Mark II
    20.1MP, 5x zoom, pop up EVF, 4K movies, tilting LCD
    https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/powershot-g5-x-mark-ii

    G7 X Mark III
    20.1MP, 4.2x zoom, 4K movies with mic input, tilting LCD
    Focussed on bloggers/vloggers, supports live streaming to Youtube
    https://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/powershot-g7-x-mark-iii


    Just for information as they could be relevant here.

  25. #25
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    Picked up my G9 X mkii this afternoon.
    first impressions are good, size and weight were my preference and it comes up trump's on those. Build quality appears good, battery charged and ready for action.
    Definitely could have got better specifications for the money but hopefully this will fulfill my (current needs)

    Last edited by Tuna1138; 18th August 2019 at 21:04.

  26. #26
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna1138 View Post
    Picked up my G9 X mkii this afternoon.
    Looks good. A very retro looking camera with the silver and brown colour scheme.

    Enjoy yourself with it. :-)

    Is the case all metal?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Looks good. A very retro looking camera with the silver and brown colour scheme.

    Enjoy yourself with it. :-)

    Is the case all metal?
    Agree it looks good, available in black also but price was the same so went for silver.
    Yes the majority of case is metal the rear and screen plastic

  28. #28
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna1138 View Post
    Yes the majority of case is metal the rear and screen plastic
    Thanks.

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    It's about 9 years young, slow in operation, cost £1500 when new, does not have an electronic viewfinder, just about pocketable, and takes wonderful snaps in fully auto mode

    https://www.ffordes.com/p/SOR-18-021...x1-grip-silver

    https://www.macfilos.com/?s=leica+X1

    dunk
    Last edited by sundial; 23rd August 2019 at 09:42.
    "My friends, as I have discovered myself, there are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters ..." Ö Boris Johnson Ö After being sacked from the Tory front bench, 2004

  30. #30
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    It's about 9 years young, slow in operation, cost £1500 when new, does not have an electronic viewfinder, just about pocketable, and takes wonderful snaps in fully auto mode

    https://www.ffordes.com/p/SOR-18-021...x1-grip-silver

    https://www.macfilos.com/?s=leica+X1
    Thanks. :-)

    It's an interesting camera.

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