Consolidating to a grail?

[djman]

Hi, I'd be very grateful for the forum's thoughts on an imminent watch purchase. I joined only recently and have so far failed to say hello properly and post pics of my collection ... that's because I've sold them all to buy a particular watch I've long been after - a Patek Travel Time (5164) in steel.

I have always liked the Aquanaut range, more so than the Nautilus and I love the second time zone complication on this particular watch. I'm getting it at list and am waiting for the call (most likely late August/early September).

It's quite a lot of money to spend on one watch, however it's a belated 50th birthday present to myself and I feel as I get older like I'm becoming more of a one watch man ... as long as that watch is really lovely. And as much as I used to like the idea of a few watches, most that I'd consider for a collection were SS Rolex - ceramic Daytona, the blue Sky Dweller, the Hulk, the usual suspects - which are obviously impossible to get at anywhere near list and I can't bring myself to pay more than double retail for anything.

My question is this - are there any other watches in roughly the same price range of the Patek (27 - 30k) that any of you would recommend I take a look at? I've already seen some AP Royal Oaks and Offshores (too big) and a VC overseas, both the plain three hander and the chronograph (in the flesh it didn't grab me, slightly to my surprise). I liked the VC Harmony AC until I tried one on, just too big, annoyingly ...

In planning to buy the Patek, I'm not factoring in future value as resale isn't an issue, I plan to keep the watch and wear it. I travel a lot for work, part of the reason for getting that particular model. And after losing a ton of cash over the years, my flipping days should be well and truly over by now.

I'd be very grateful for your thoughts. I've done as much research as my wife will bear, trawling the internet late into the night ... every night ... for inspiration. I've even looked at brands like F P Journe and ALS, which I have to say I don't know much about. Anyway, I'd be very grateful for your thoughts. Like I said, I have lusted after the Aquanaut now for several years, I just want to be sure there's nothing else out there before I take the plunge.

[Evangelos]

This sounds like an 'exit' watch so it has to be something versatile and robust, literally and metaphorically.

myself, I would probably focus on a more classic and complicated Patek i.e a chronograph/perp. calendar, or a Patek world time, without this meaning that the aquanaut is not a very interesting option.

the only other alternative I would have thought for myself, as maybe I am a more flamboyant individual, is royal oak in gold (39mm - all gold or only head in gold)?

Other than that, well done, I am thinking of consolidating one day too. Would be interersted in knowing of your thoughts if eventually pull the trigger.

Evangelos

[crazyp]

Consolidating to 'upgrade' is one of the most popular and accessible ways to go higher up the food chain. What are you planning on selling?

Also note - the 5164 is getting tougher to acquire...

[Omegamanic]

It's a very good choice - you obviously really like the watch, and it is a great buy at list. I really don't think you can go wrong. I'm waiting on my own Aquanaut and with all the hassle of trying to get a new Rolex in the Professional range, I think I'd rather concentrate on Patek for now, or even look at ALS (although not quite in the same long term keeps it's value mould as some, but probably better finished than most).

[paskinner]

With luck, you have forty years of life ahead. With that in mind, for a single watch, I’d go Rolex every time. They lack the ‘hand-finishing’ of a Patek, and the status, but , to me, are, in key ways, better made, more durable and will give you less trouble.
I bought a new 5711 as a ‘grail.’ That soon cured me....now I have a DD40. Right choice for me.

[LeBowl]

When I got my 5167 I thought it was crazy getting a 5164 as it was nearly double the price. Now with the market value it is definitely justifiable!

[Mattius2]

The great buy at list comment had me confused until I looked at the reseller market! But it's still £30k for a watch with a rubbery strap...

Love the time zone function execution though. If it's the one it's the one

[djman]

Thanks all for your comments so far, much appreciated. I suppose this is an exit watch for me, although if I do live for another 40 years I'm not sure I'll be able to resist buying another couple ...

I have tried on yellow and rose gold watches from time to time - both AP and Rolex - and I'm never sure I could pull them off for everyday wear, lovely though they all were.

I did consider a DD, probably white gold with a blue face, but I've had a few Rolexes over the years and feel like I want something slightly more exotic. I totally agree with you on build and reliability, I've lusted after - and loved - all the submariners, sea dwellers, GMT's and datejusts that I've ever had ... but I've never had a Patek and although I've sometimes wondered about practicality - day to day use, wear and tear etc - it feels more like a special watch somehow, at least to me.

I've considered the white gold aquanaut with blue dial and also investigated something more classic in their range ... but I think the travel time is the one. As you say, if it is, then it is ...

I'm very interested to know what you thought of the 5711, what was real world use like for you? And how did it disappoint? If there was another watch that grabbed me right now, it would be the Nautilus 5726 annual calendar, but I imagine very difficult to source and of course, slightly more expensive if you can get hold of one.

Please keep thoughts coming and whatever I do go for, I will eventually post pictures!

[paskinner]

I enjoyed the appearance of the 5711, the quite lovely dial. The elegant simplicity was quite something.
On the wrist it felt light, rather special. But that expanse of steel around the bezel seemed too easy to mark. I suppose I was never able to relax with the 5711. It also felt less robust than a Rolex with a poor clasp which had an awkward press-fit.
All highly personal, and now the price has gone nuts. If I’d kept it.....


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[The Journey]

Have you had a look at any of the Girard Perregaux Laureato. I think I would prefer one of these and spend the extra on another top watch.

Edit. Depreciation needs to be considered.
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[djman]

Very nice looking nautilus. I try to be pretty careful, but that first scratch on something new is really grim isn't it. I don't fancy feeling like I can't relax when I'm wearing it, good job the Aquanaut's got a rubber strap, one less thing to worry about.

Prices have gone mad, although I really wonder whether grey and private sellers are achieving anywhere near their asking prices. I know the internet is already awash with this debate and I don't want to add to it, but it doesn't seem so hard to build a relationship, get on a list - if such a thing even actually exists - and then wait your turn.

[JP28]

Looks like you have done your homework so give it a go. I would be looking at having a Rolex sub/SD/gmt watch as well, not just to give an alternative but to also give something a little less scratchable.
On the 5711/12 front, I found them nice but too light for me and the bezel is a complete scratch magnet which for me means not a daily at all (could be the same issue for what you are looking at hence the sub/SD/gmt point).
If you are buying at retail then you will not loose financially if you have made the wrong call.

[ac11111]

I love the idea of a consolidation piece at some point in the quite far future. The only piece that cannot go is my wedding sub and my 18th birthday tag..everything else is very much expendable really, even though some are labelled “keepers” currently

Big decision OP!

[Skyman]

I aim to have three consolidation pieces.

[ajw232]

Thanks all for your comments so far, much appreciated. I suppose this is an exit watch for me, although if I do live for another 40 years I'm not sure I'll be able to resist buying another couple ...

I have tried on yellow and rose gold watches from time to time - both AP and Rolex - and I'm never sure I could pull them off for everyday wear, lovely though they all were.

I did consider a DD, probably white gold with a blue face, but I've had a few Rolexes over the years and feel like I want something slightly more exotic. I totally agree with you on build and reliability, I've lusted after - and loved - all the submariners, sea dwellers, GMT's and datejusts that I've ever had ... but I've never had a Patek and although I've sometimes wondered about practicality - day to day use, wear and tear etc - it feels more like a special watch somehow, at least to me.

I've considered the white gold aquanaut with blue dial and also investigated something more classic in their range ... but I think the travel time is the one. As you say, if it is, then it is ...

I'm very interested to know what you thought of the 5711, what was real world use like for you? And how did it disappoint? If there was another watch that grabbed me right now, it would be the Nautilus 5726 annual calendar, but I imagine very difficult to source and of course, slightly more expensive if you can get hold of one.

Please keep thoughts coming and whatever I do go for, I will eventually post pictures!

I have 3 watches with a similar finish to the 5164; a 5980r, 5167a and an AP 15400. The AP I've had for about 6 years or so and has seen a lot of use, there are some scratches and dents but nothing that won't be sorted out in a service and the watch is still looking great even with them. These days the 5980r is the one I tend to wear the most and it has picked up the odd light surface scratch and a small dink or two but they are only minor.
The 5167a was the most recent purchase of the three at just over a year old and rather quickly I unfortunately managed to pick up a few scratches to the same corner (between 10-12 o'clock). I'm not sure if it's because the watch is lighter that I'm less conscious of it and that's how they've occurred or if it was just unfortunate. They're only surface scratches really and will come out with a light re-finish at service so I don't worry about them too much. The watch itself is light and incredibly comfortable, although on a negative note the clasp isn't great for a watch at this price level. As long as you go into it accepting the watch will pick up some marks on the bezel and can continue to enjoy it then you won't have a problem.
I recently added a Rolex Daytona 116519 LN on oysterflex and I do feel more relaxed wearing it than the PP's or AP knowing that the ceramic bezel doesn't pick up marks as easily.

In the present market if you buy the Aquanaut and decide it's not the one for you then you won't lose a penny so I'd go for it if I were you.

[Satori]

Whether a particular watch is a good choice is purely subjective, obviously, and in your position, I would look at what my real priorities are. If value preservation and brand recognition are the most important factors then PP and Rolex are really the only games in town. If reliability and robustness are top priorities, then Rolex tops the list for many. If it is fine watchmaking that floats your boat then neither are remotely relevant. Physically handle this..

https://www.alange-soehne.com/en/tim...old-black-dial

Next to the PP 5164 (same price range) and you will have a better idea what you want.

[djman]

I have 3 watches with a similar finish to the 5164; a 5980r, 5167a and an AP 15400. The AP I've had for about 6 years or so and has seen a lot of use, there are some scratches and dents but nothing that won't be sorted out in a service and the watch is still looking great even with them. These days the 5980r is the one I tend to wear the most and it has picked up the odd light surface scratch and a small dink or two but they are only minor.
The 5167a was the most recent purchase of the three at just over a year old and rather quickly I unfortunately managed to pick up a few scratches to the same corner (between 10-12 o'clock). I'm not sure if it's because the watch is lighter that I'm less conscious of it and that's how they've occurred or if it was just unfortunate. They're only surface scratches really and will come out with a light re-finish at service so I don't worry about them too much. The watch itself is light and incredibly comfortable, although on a negative note the clasp isn't great for a watch at this price level. As long as you go into it accepting the watch will pick up some marks on the bezel and can continue to enjoy it then you won't have a problem.
I recently added a Rolex Daytona 116519 LN on oysterflex and I do feel more relaxed wearing it than the PP's or AP knowing that the ceramic bezel doesn't pick up marks as easily.

In the present market if you buy the Aquanaut and decide it's not the one for you then you won't lose a penny so I'd go for it if I were you.

Thanks for all your comments, really helpful, much appreciated.

I think I'm just going to buy it and live with it for a while. I always scratch new watches, normally within the first 24 hours of ownership! And although really annoying, I never get too bothered in the long run.

I do really like the idea of a Daytona on oysterflex, are these PM models as difficult to get hold of as the professional range? I must see if I can try one on.

[djman]

Sorry, stupid question. I've just seen the markup online versus the RRP.

[ajw232]

To be honest I think I just got lucky when I got mine as I’d “registered my interest” and then just happened to go in and speak to them about it again when they’d had one in! I think I waited a few months so not bad in the scheme of things! I think the rose and yellow are slightly easier to get than the white gold.

[crazyp]

Sorry, stupid question. I've just seen the markup online versus the RRP.

As I said above - not easy to get anymore at retail....

[qaz4169]

Picked up a 5990 this year and that is a good exit watch. Unfortunately I'm no way close to the exit myself with another 14 on the current wish list.....AAAGHHHH


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[djman]

As I said above - not easy to get anymore at retail....

Hi, yes sorry I was referring to the Daytona, rather than the Patek which I'm getting at list ... but you're right, it seems rather difficult these days to get any desirable watch at retail any more.

I remember being offered an Aquanaut 5167 a few years ago for around 10k by an AD (I think with a discount); I just about remember buying a brand new Rolex 16600 for £2,500 back in the day ... and I was offered a white dial steel Daytona for £6,500 ... wish I'd bought it.

[Tom-P]

The Travel Time is my own grail watch so I have no difficulty in understanding the thinking here. (Indeed I've always been a bit baffled that it doesn't get a bit more love on here, though the price and the waiting list might simply mean that few of us have ever seen one.) Do please as you say update this with your thoughts if and when you land it.

[ekotan]

I did the same thing of consolidating by selling my SS Daytona and two Subs and buying my grail watch, which is a Lange 1. That’s not really a sports watch, so I also got a Panerai PAM796 for diving. Don’t regret it one bit. After several happy years, I was honestly bored of my Rolexes and never wore them any more. When that happens, it’s time for a change. Go for it.


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[ColDaspin]

Umm ...

- sounds like the OPs first preference is to have a collection of 2-3 watches, including some SS Rolexes, and that this was a preference formed over time. Has that really changed now?
- very few watch enthusiasts manage to get their collection down to one so the OP should factor in that he probably won't, even if the current intentions are good ;)
- therefore I'd look to get something that would minimize the hit on re-sale - times change and Rolex availability / the OP's luck may improve :)
- is the OP really in love with this model or is it a way to spend the 25-30k currently burning a red hot hole in his pocket? We've all been there - albeit at different budget points ;)
- can a thirty grand watch, and one not designed primarily with robustness in mind, really be regarded as a do-it-all, certainly for anyone leading an active lifestyle?

Apologies for any mood-dampening on my part but good luck to the OP in any case!

[paskinner]

I like to think I have achieved my destination.......a Rolex DayDate 40mm in White gold with rhodium dial. That’s my main watch, worn most days. Why? Well, because Rolex make tough, every-day watches which will stay the course. However, it escapes the whole “Rolex sports watch’ thing. Which I’m not keen on. And white gold looks like plain old steel so it doesn’t attract attention.
I do have an alternative, a Speedmaster Pro, which I see as one of the best all-round designs.
I do like the idea of an ALS or something similar, but in the end the sheer durability of the Rolex carried the day.
Will it prove to be that rare beast, the ‘final’ watch? Maybe, maybe not.