Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by oldoakknives
Does someone have to be earning their living selling watches, to be a dealer? Or just someone who sells lots of (normally new) watches for a profit?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Big Al to the rescue 💪
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Raffe, I genuinely think there’s only Kev and I who have declared ourselves as “dealers” in thread titles ( maybe a few more but we are the most prevalent).
You can’t teach people to have manners. It’s sneaky people I don’t like ;)
There are a few others, but I agree the undercover dealers are outnumbering the upstanding ones by a margin. Sad.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Yep, what can you do? It is sad indeed
Let me get this straight, forum owner complains not enough donations are made to FR, yet owner doesn't police forum enough to ensure rules are being followed? If no one is governing the place you may as well not have rules. I've lost count the number of simiilar threads we've had over the years, either sort it out properly or shut the lot down.
Is this part of your official application for moderator?
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Not me, Eddie!
We’re all (supposedly) responsible adults here and should have enough respect for Eddie to follow the few rules he has set.
It shouldn’t need to be policed, we all know the rules and should abide by them.
Hadn’t seen that, pretty clear.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 3rd August 2019 at 23:42.
That was my second question
Anyway, it’s a long (or not) conversation which I leave for another day given the circumstances, just wanted to say that people know exactly how many items they sell per week/month etc so there are no excuses not to declare themselves as a dealer, common sense and decent thing to do innit.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
That’ll be 10% of his selling price
Now you know
Now that's an interesting point, I was told a couple of sellers had an "ok" to stick a set amount in the fundraiser, say a max of £200.
I played by the rules to the letter in the early days with the 10% but these days I'm not sure. I sold a diamond ring to a member on here a few years ago, total price was £9k and I put £900 in the fundraiser. After my costs on that one the fundraiser made as much as I did.
It's a while since I sold anything high value but on if I was selling anything like that now I might be tempted to offer it with a £500 limit. It's all hypothetical, Eddie would need to grant that really.
I’d be happy to pay for access, and would be supportive of a format like this.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
It's a great story, but do a search and tell me how many posts there are of similar nature to this one over the last couple of years? Of course we're all supposed to behave a certain way, but this is human society and it doesn't typically work like that as has been proved on here.
I see a member was recently banned from SC, this is a step in the right direction. How about a sticky with bold letter in SC, 'BANNED MEMBERS FROM SC' so that there is a constant reminder to those that frequent the page of the consequences. We have enough members with their finger on the pulse, a few PM's to Eddie of those taking the mickey and he adds to the list. Very light effort for hopefully a little gain.
Or let's just wait for a similar thread to be posted in 3-6 months time of how the fundraiser is being neglected and we're all terrible people for not following the rules. Or worse still, let's just wait until Eddie closes it down.
I vote the former.
Ref buying the seller, could someone list the dealers for us all? Kev and Alex we know of course by their openness, but the references to the others just leaves us guessing.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Maybe an idea to feature a dealer's thread in SC where all dealers should declare themselves before listing items??
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Seems that many 'dealers' don't see themselves as such.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I can’t see that making a scrap of difference, all dealers are supposed to declare themselves anyway.
We should all be far less reticent about outing those flouting the rules and not have to face barrages of criticism for doing so.
If we all chose not to deal with the covert dealers, that would also help.
I had stopped doing it as it got me nothing but grief or is completely ignored.
Examples:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...f-jackets-bags
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...rch-Oslo-shoes
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Interestingly Robertb00th now posts on SC as a dealer, after (IIRC) admitting he bought clothes from manufacturers' sales or outlets to sell on here. I wonder if any of the people who took you to task have apologised. Or for that matter I wonder if any of them are dealers too!
"A man of little significance"
Just bear in mind that there are grey areas.... Alex and I are both watch enthusiasts separate from being dealers. I reckon three quarters of my sale threads this year have personal sales. If it's something I've bought cheaply through a trade contact I usually offer a fundraiser donation, but I still pay the retail rates on a lot of my Seiko and Citizen stuff.
He might be posting as a dealer, but there are not enough donations to match anywhere near his 30-some hero posts from this year alone. And that doesn't account for sales without hero posts or multiple items to one seller...
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
That’s the trouble; you either get grief from the dealer himself, other dealers who chip in to support and protect their business or satisfied customers who don’t want to stop getting their bargains.
Then of course, you’re referred to in a derogatory manner as the forum police.
True, but both your and my points were in relation to the people who have a go at you when you out a dealer.
"A man of little significance"
Yes, and my last point was that even when you go through it and out a dealer, the fundraiser still gets nothing...
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
unfortunately ive yet to see a forum that has no moderating and has the members behaving in an adult manner , people will always take the piss .
as the above says, either moderate it properly /close it down / or just let ppl have free reign (which is what has been happening for a long time with the odd moan inbetween)
Out of the support squad 100thmonkey is a professional watch dealer. I have zero knowledge of his SC activities and can’t be bothered to find out. Please note that I do not accuse him of any wrongdoings on here or elsewhere, just the fact that he’s a pro.
I`ve stayed out of this till now, but what I dislike is the way that some posters are implying that Eddie's to blame for not policing the forum strictly enough.
He's trying to run his own business with minimal help, he's currently having his own health issues addressed, It's unrealistic to expect him to spend large chunks of valuable time policing this place!
Possible he could help matters by appointing moderators, perhaps that would help, but I understand and respect his desire to avoid this.
People who buy watches (or anything else) with the intention to sell them and make a few bob should be prepared to pay for the privilege of using SC as a sales platform. Whether 10% of selling price is fair or not is open to debate, but we all agree that 0% is taking the piss!
Hopefully, having raised the profile of this issue, the level of donations will improve and those who trade regularly on SC will be a bit more generous towards the fundraiser. Those who sell the 'hot watches' and crystalise their good fortune into hard cash should be particularly generous.....enough said.
There's a grey area between being a watch enthusiast who swaps and changes, an enthusiast with an eye for a bargain and the contacts to help find bargains (which may or may note be kept) and a fully fledged dealer who makes his living from trading. A witch-hunt isn`t the best way forward, more generosity from those who inhabit this 'grey area' is a better outcome for everyone.
I suggest the pitchforks are parked temporarily, lets all see how things pan out over the next few weeks. Now is the time to support this forum and quit the bickering, lets not forget that.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 5th August 2019 at 12:34.
Given that dealers don't wish to flag themselves as such it would be helpful if their status were changed from Journeyman/Master/Troll etc to "Dealer" as at least that would highlight who they are. Any sales would need a matching Fundraiser contribution & this can be easily monitored.
It should be obvious that none of them are going to donate voluntarily, especially if the expected donation is 10% of the sale price.
I think that you will find that he was on here for a long time before he Became a watch dealer and doesn't mix his job with this place.
+1
Not being pedantic, your comment is a contradiction. It's along the lines of being volunteered for a task. Also, if you have to pay, how is SC a "free" platform?
As to the pee takers, just ban them.
I think you’re missing the point by a country mile. I run a benign dictatorship in my organisation, same principle.
I have no fight with you, I only want to see the FR benefitting from those that take the piss routinely.
Do the forum's active watch repairers get much business from the forum and do they (should they) donate?
No, they don't. Actually, their workbench is so full that they don't accept any new work. Some of them even have to insult the membership in order to keep them from throwing more work at them.
Last edited by Raffe; 6th August 2019 at 20:10.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Can’t speak for other repairers (professional or hobbyist) but I’ll clarify my own position.
I have donated anonymously to the fundraiser, albeit not frequently. The bulk of my charity donations have been to other charities that I choose to support for personal reasons related to my own health problems in recent years.
Given the amount of mud- slinging that’s arising from the fundraiser issues my future donations will now be clear to see, this will make life easier for those who enjoy analysing the data.
As for workload, I take on very few jobs thesedays because I don’t like having to work hard, I’m retired and my priority is to enjoy my leisure time to the full. Watchwork has no significant impact on my income, I do NOT earn a living at it, that’s taken care of from pension and investments. If I wanted to make money from watches I’d become a dealer, there’s far more to be made from buying and selling especially if you can add value by working on them.
With regard to dealers selling on SC, Eddie has made the position clear but has never mentioned repairers. I’ll raise this next time I see him, which hopefully will be fairly soon if his recovery goes well. However, this could never be policed and the onus would inevitably fall on the individual to behave with integrity and make the appropriate donation.
If all TZ members made a regular monthly donation the situation with the fundraiser would be a lot healthier, maybe that’s what ought to happen and hopefully it will improve.
Oh I get your point, even if it was so badly made. And' I agree with you, so that's that settled.
I use SC a fair bit. It's miles better and loads less hassle than eBay.
I've made a few donations to the fundraiser, but admit I've probably been a bit remiss at times.
I make regular donations to a couple of other charities that I support, but that's no reason not to give to Eddie's fundraiser.
I've sold a few items on SC this week, non for profit I may add, and have increased the fundraiser by £35 as a result.
It's less than I would have been charged on eBay and I feel much better knowing it's gone to good causes.
Don't be stingy - you'll feel much better for it.
I find it rather disappointing that so many people seem to see the Sales Corner as the basis for contributing to the forum fundraiser.
Eddie never intended it to be so, it was set up to encourage all of us forum members to contribute into and raise monies for the selected charities.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I think many forum users agree with the principle of donating, but it's all too easy to forget. I'll admit I`ve been guilty on this score, and I`m sure I`m not alone.
I don`t know how this can best be addressed, maybe once/month we have a 'donations day' to jog folks' memories?
Having recent first-hand experience of what walkerwek1958 charges I agree he doesn’t make a living out of the excellent service he provides!
Edit: 1958, not 1968. He just looks young!
Last edited by Kirk280; 7th August 2019 at 20:57.
Nor do most of the dealers.
You really are sad. I’m trying to be constructive on this thread whilst simultaneously fighting all- comers in the Bear Pit.....get yourself over there, it must be your turn soon!
Don’t flatter yourself please! You’re fighting no one in the BP because you were told you were being petulant and boring!
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Not sad at all, your recent post have made me laugh.
That may well be the case in an ideal world. I’ve made donations without selling on SC and hopefully others do the same, but it’s easy to forget. The fact that you’ve sold something with no fees should hopefully prompt you to remember and bung a few quid in. If everyone who sold something did that, the fundraiser would be in a much better position than it is now.
An underappreciated advantage of selling on TZ-UK rather than on eBay: one flies under the radar of HMRC.
I am sure this is one of the reasons some of our resident dealers prefer TZ-UK.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
A very interesting point. Most members aren’t hard to find in the ‘real world’ (myself included).
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