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Thread: Fundraiser sliding down the pan

  1. #51
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I get that, but it was written 16 years ago when there was a completely different clique to the forum, "any item" in 2003 has now grown into a monster.
    You should PM Eddie immediately and tell him he needs to change the way he runs the forum. Aside from the lack of charity donations, SC works fine as it is.
    "A man of little significance"

  2. #52
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I get that, but it was written 16 years ago when there was a completely different clique to the forum, "any item" in 2003 has now grown into a monster.
    Look, what I mean is the forum runs fine and if Eddie thought it needed changing he would change it, there's no point discussing something that's been discussed again and again and again to no end.
    "A man of little significance"

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Personally I think the discussion about the relative value of the forum misses the point. Eddie does a brilliant job of running it, and all he asks in return is that we chip into his preferred charities. If you are making money from the forum, chip in more.
    This.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    You should PM Eddie immediately and tell him he needs to change the way he runs the forum. Aside from the lack of charity donations, SC works fine as it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    Look, what I mean is the forum runs fine and if Eddie thought it needed changing he would change it, there's no point discussing something that's been discussed again and again and again to no end.
    I agree with a lot that you say here, but going by Eddies OP its either more donations or close SC, I dont want to see SC disappear as I'm sure you dont or the rest of the forum so ideas are being banded around to help the FR and keep SC open.

    A little boost of the FR today is just an Elastoplast to a bigger problem, if Eddie wants the FR to benefit on a regular basis then it needs fixing, and dare I say it the rules might be out of touch with a 2019 TZUK

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Maybe the time for a mandatory donation for every listing? There's a number of people on here using this as a free platform to sell and are clearly making profit, maybe it's time the fundraiser benefited more from that free platform?
    If it's mandatory, it's not a donation.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    If it's mandatory, it's not a donation.
    Thank you for the pedantry, doesn't change the fact there's a lot of p*ss takers on here.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fun...15&isTeam=true

    EDIT: Thats the link if you can't see the big red banner. ;-)

    R
    I suspect as they posted with Tapatalk they can’t see the banner.

  8. #58
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    Or use an Adblocker

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Or use an Adblocker
    Don't think it is an ad.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Don't think it is an ad.
    Adblockers do treat it as such. If anyone can't see it, it looks like this. The link is embedded in the image


  11. #61
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    I have never used Sales Corner (I will be shortly, but that's a different matter). I do however seriously enjoy this forum, on many levels. I've just pop in 15 to the fund as a token of this appreciation. When I hopefully sell a couple of watches, no flip flops, in the near future I will make a donation to the pot as it's the decent thing to do IMHO.
    J

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    Adblockers do treat it as such. If anyone can't see it, it looks like this. The link is embedded in the image

    Ok, when it was near top of page my adblocker blocked it but now doesn't.

  13. #63
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Eddie - how hard would it be to put in some software where any thread anyone tries to open in SC automatically includes a box where you input how much money from or a percentage of the sale you intend to stick in the fundraiser, and that information was included in the sales post? Make it compulsory to stick in a minimum of a quid and a maximum of whatever anyone wanted to put. Absolutely no one would complain.
    "A man of little significance"

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    One is taking the piss right now...

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    One is taking the piss right now...
    Oh yes.
    #plantpot

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    No need, I did it last week.

    Here is a list of all donors in 2019 (until 22 July): https://gofile.io/?c=XMBxim
    I’ve not looked, but does that include sellers donating items to the fundraiser where the purchaser pays the money into the fundraiser?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I’ve not looked, but does that include sellers donating items to the fundraiser where the purchaser pays the money into the fundraiser?
    No. Neither does it include the instigators of fundraiser raffles. There’s lots of single entries which are clearly entries into draws.

    Still, as long as there’s money going into the pot, that’s all that really matters.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Personally I think the discussion about the relative value of the forum misses the point. Eddie does a brilliant job of running it, and all he asks in return is that we chip into his preferred charities. If you are making money from enjoying the forum, chip in more.
    Great post! Just fixed this one detail.

  19. #69
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    Relying on folks voluntarily doing the right thing simply doesn’t work.

    £25 annual fee to access SC... okay it’s a set figure and won’t be pro rata fair but it’ll raise £5k a year, maybe a good bit more.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    No. Neither does it include the instigators of fundraiser raffles. There’s lots of single entries which are clearly entries into draws.

    Still, as long as there’s money going into the pot, that’s all that really matters.
    I agree, however some people fundraise without donating so it needs to be considered

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I’ve not looked, but does that include sellers donating items to the fundraiser where the purchaser pays the money into the fundraiser?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    No. Neither does it include the instigators of fundraiser raffles. There’s lots of single entries which are clearly entries into draws.

    Still, as long as there’s money going into the pot, that’s all that really matters.
    No, it doesn't. I should add this isn't meant to be bragging material for those who are on, more embarrassment for those wo are active business sellers and aren't on.
    #plantpot

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I am not sure that's the best idea. Like it or not, but some of the forum's appeal comes from its active sales corner. Closing it down makes the forum as a whole less attractive.

    You have set a number of clear and sensible rules for sales corner, however years of experience have shown that there are no consequences if people show disregard for them. I know that you are busy and have no time to micro-police the forum (and the light moderation has a lot going for it), but this is a conundrum that won't solve itself. I bet you the main perpetrators are not even reading this thread as they never stray out of sales corner. And when one of the other members takes action, they get nothing but grief for it. I had a discussion with another member just last week. He says 'why bother if it only gets yourself into trouble'.

    I am sure there are a number of old forum hands who are more than willing to assist you, but you would need to tell them how you want it done. It doesn't have to be a forum police force, one could create a closed group where such cases can be flagged and discussed. Or, as has been suggested before, just make access to sales corner a subscription model: no pay no access. I am sure there are available tools for vbulletin.
    I think that moderation is safest in Eddies hands rather than the ‘old forum hands’.
    Whether you agree or disagree with him, at least he is consistent.
    Take a look in the BP and ask yourself which ‘old forum hands’ you would rather have as moderators!
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I think that moderation is safest in Eddies hands rather than the ‘old forum hands’.
    Whether you agree or disagree with him, at least he is consistent.
    Take a look in the BP and ask yourself which ‘old forum hands’ you would rather have as moderators!
    No one, the boss knows best and his word is final.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Take a look in the BP and ask yourself which ‘old forum hands’ you would rather have as moderators!
    Lunatics running the asylum springs to mind.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    No, it doesn't. I should add this isn't meant to be bragging material for those who are on, more embarrassment for those wo are active business sellers and aren't on.
    I don’t think that the business sellers who aren’t on the list (and that’s virtually all of them) will even look at the thread, let alone the list.
    Even if they did, I seriously doubt that they’d be embarrassed; they’ll just carry on as normal until Eddie either shuts down SC or bans them.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I don’t think that the business sellers who aren’t on the list (and that’s virtually all of them) will even look at the thread, let alone the list.
    Even if they did, I seriously doubt that they’d be embarrassed; they’ll just carry on as normal until Eddie either shuts down SC or bans them.
    You may be right there.
    #plantpot

  27. #77
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    There is of course another angle to this,
    As a forum we are fortunate enough to have generous members who pick up popular watches on their travels and offer them to the forum at extremely competitive prices, those who manage to bag a hard to get watch in this way ought to consider dropping a few quid into the fund as a sign of appreciation given that the seller is going out of their way to provide an otherwise hard to obtain item.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I think that moderation is safest in Eddies hands rather than the ‘old forum hands’.
    Whether you agree or disagree with him, at least he is consistent.
    Take a look in the BP and ask yourself which ‘old forum hands’ you would rather have as moderators!
    Got to agree, the last thing the forum needs are a few brown shirts...

    SC generally works fine, and it does drive traffic to the forum and therefore is a shop window for TF as well.

    The issue, as pointed out in the OP, is that some (most) dealers aren’t contributing to the fundraiser and that Eddie was expressing his general disappointment that more people aren’t contributing to something that is obviously very important to him.

    Ban the former, and the latter just need to make more of an effort to do it.

    There is no need, in all honesty, for all the handwringing or root and branch reform as then we risk throwing the baby out with the bath water.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    There is of course another angle to this,
    As a forum we are fortunate enough to have generous members who pick up popular watches on their travels and offer them to the forum at extremely competitive prices, those who manage to bag a hard to get watch in this way ought to consider dropping a few quid into the fund as a sign of appreciation given that the seller is going out of their way to provide an otherwise hard to obtain item.
    Those same individuals sell a lot of watches though and openly stated the making of a profit on a recent occasion. Why should the rules be different for them, it’s got to be a one size fits all approach or it doesn’t work.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    There is of course another angle to this,
    As a forum we are fortunate enough to have generous members who pick up popular watches on their travels and offer them to the forum at extremely competitive prices, those who manage to bag a hard to get watch in this way ought to consider dropping a few quid into the fund as a sign of appreciation given that the seller is going out of their way to provide an otherwise hard to obtain item.
    I was with you 1000% right up to the bit about seller going out of their way...

    These super deals and facilitators should abide by the rules... just because they are doing folks a great deal they still need to do their bit.

    AND (this is where I'm agreeing with you here) buyers should be encouraged to drop a few pennies in if they have benefited from a great deal. Not talking rules and all that... just guidance

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Those same individuals sell a lot of watches though and openly stated the making of a profit on a recent occasion. Why should the rules be different for them, it’s got to be a one size fits all approach or it doesn’t work.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwozza70 View Post
    I was with you 1000% right up to the bit about seller going out of their way...

    These super deals and facilitators should abide by the rules... just because they are doing folks a great deal they still need to do their bit.

    AND (this is where I'm agreeing with you here) buyers should be encouraged to drop a few pennies in if they have benefited from a great deal. Not talking rules and all that... just guidance
    With a little more thought I find myself agreeing with you guys,,
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    With a little more thought I find myself agreeing with you guys,,
    Was that three people agreeing on an SC related discussion... we ought to create a certficate.


  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Those same individuals sell a lot of watches though and openly stated the making of a profit on a recent occasion. Why should the rules be different for them, it’s got to be a one size fits all approach or it doesn’t work.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwozza70 View Post
    I was with you 1000% right up to the bit about seller going out of their way...

    These super deals and facilitators should abide by the rules... just because they are doing folks a great deal they still need to do their bit.

    AND (this is where I'm agreeing with you here) buyers should be encouraged to drop a few pennies in if they have benefited from a great deal. Not talking rules and all that... just guidance
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    With a little more thought I find myself agreeing with you guys,,
    Since these guys are making a profit, as well as ‘helping’ people obtain watches, then contributing would seem the decent thing to do.
    So I agree.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Those same individuals sell a lot of watches though and openly stated the making of a profit on a recent occasion. Why should the rules be different for them, it’s got to be a one size fits all approach or it doesn’t work.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwozza70 View Post
    I was with you 1000% right up to the bit about seller going out of their way...

    These super deals and facilitators should abide by the rules... just because they are doing folks a great deal they still need to do their bit.

    AND (this is where I'm agreeing with you here) buyers should be encouraged to drop a few pennies in if they have benefited from a great deal. Not talking rules and all that... just guidance
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    With a little more thought I find myself agreeing with you guys,,
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Since these guys are making a profit, as well as ‘helping’ people obtain watches, then contributing would seem the decent thing to do.
    So I agree.
    +1
    #plantpot

  35. #85
    Perhaps the dealers that dodge the agreed charity donations should be outed here and a subsequent villain post added. I wouldn't want to deal with somone who doesn't pay up as agreed and would hope most of the membership would be with me.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    Perhaps the dealers that dodge the agreed charity donations should be outed here and a subsequent villain post added. I wouldn't want to deal with somone who doesn't pay up as agreed and would hope most of the membership would be with me.
    --> Draft thread.
    #plantpot

  37. #87
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    SC needs to be moderated better and updated in several areas. If it continues the way it is then Eddie has to take some of the responsibility for the lack of donations. We can't rely on goodwill especially when it comes to money and the internet, that has been proved many times on SC. Threatening to shut it down is disappointing to see. It's the fault of the dealers/profiteers not donating, so ban them and do better at making sure you don't get to the point of having to ban people again.

  38. #88
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    Some of the comments flying around the forum at the moment seem distinctly uncharitable.......the place gets no better in that respect and it's the same minority (Draft Thread Gang)who cause most of the trouble.

    A 'tax' on Bear Pit posts might help the Fundraiser, especially if it could be automated.

    As for SC, I don`t think anyone could object to a listing or selling fee going automatically to the Fundraiser. That would be hard to administer, but an automated PM 'reminder' might be possible. Possibly a buyer's premium too? These could be set and capped at modest levels, anyone who felt obliged to put more in could do so.

  39. #89
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    Trying to get a dealer to donate is unfeasible. They'll just put the extra on top of the buying price. Of course the fundraiser will get the money which is the ultimate goal but it will be the buyer paying the donation while the dealer walks away with another free deal. I guess it depends on whether the fundraiser is more important than the thought of a trader being slimey.

  40. #90
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    This isn’t a commercial sales platform, despite some treating it like one.

    If it starts being treated as such, ie a sales platform with a forum attached, it won’t just be fund raiser donations sliding down the pan...

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud767 View Post
    Trying to get a dealer to donate is unfeasible. They'll just put the extra on top of the buying price. Of course the fundraiser will get the money which is the ultimate goal but it will be the buyer paying the donation while the dealer walks away with another free deal. I guess it depends on whether the fundraiser is more important than the thought of a trader being slimey.
    I seriously doubt that. We’re a tight bunch on here and are unlikely to pay over the top; in fact it’s quite a struggle to get a decent price sometimes. Just look at the number of sales threads where the item goes to eBay and sells st a higher price.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud767 View Post
    Trying to get a dealer to donate is unfeasible. They'll just put the extra on top of the buying price. Of course the fundraiser will get the money which is the ultimate goal but it will be the buyer paying the donation while the dealer walks away with another free deal. I guess it depends on whether the fundraiser is more important than the thought of a trader being slimey.
    Fair point, but I disagree, I think the price is what it is, if a 'dealer' asks more he won`t necessarily get it.

    Hopefully, as a result of this thread, things will get better. Best way for the forum to support Eddie at the moment is by improving standards of behaviour and that includes donations, it's a matter of respect really.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    No need, I did it last week.

    Here is a list of all donors in 2019 (until 22 July): https://gofile.io/?c=XMBxim
    Not that I've donated loads but I won't show on there as I never donate publicly to any charity or page. I always tick the anonymous button. Just so we don't assume no name = no donation for me and others.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Not that I've donated loads but I won't show on there as I never donate publicly to any charity or page. I always tick the anonymous button. Just so we don't assume no name = no donation for me and others.
    No need to defend yourself. The list is meant to be compared against the actions of known SC chancers.
    #plantpot

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Fair point, but I disagree, I think the price is what it is, if a 'dealer' asks more he won`t necessarily get it.

    Hopefully, as a result of this thread, things will get better. Best way for the forum to support Eddie at the moment is by improving standards of behaviour and that includes donations, it's a matter of respect really.
    Well I don't know how much a dealer is expected to donate but how would anyone know if it's £20 or £30 added to a £1000 watch? Watches going for a grand can vary within hundreds.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud767 View Post
    Well I don't know how much a dealer is expected to donate

    That’ll be 10% of his selling price

    Now you know

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    That’ll be 10% of his selling price

    Now you know
    What is current eBay commission/listing fee rate?
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  48. #98
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    No listing fee generally these days and 10% of final value fee and postage. 3.9% PayPal fees too.

    There is an upper limit of £250 (unless that’s changed recently)

    Often though, as this weekend, there’s a £1 maximum final value fee offer.

  49. #99
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    No listing fee generally these days and 10% of final value fee and postage. 3.9% PayPal fees too.

    There is an upper limit of £250 (unless that’s changed recently)

    Often though, as this weekend, there’s a £1 maximum final value fee offer.

    Fee limit of £250 is in place (it was gone for a while a couple of years ago).

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/...g-fees?id=4364
    #plantpot

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    No listing fee generally these days and 10% of final value fee and postage. 3.9% PayPal fees too.

    There is an upper limit of £250 (unless that’s changed recently)

    Often though, as this weekend, there’s a £1 maximum final value fee offer.
    Thanks, so correct me if I’m wrong, you reckon that a dealer selling say a watch for 6K on the SC should pay 600 quid to the fundraiser which seems a bit steep..
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

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