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Thread: Fundraiser sliding down the pan

  1. #1
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Fundraiser sliding down the pan

    £65 donated last week, that's less than a tenner a day from the entire membership. I see Sales Corner is as busy as ever so such a low level of donations is a disappointment.



    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  2. #2
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    That’s a poor show!
    As you say SC is busy!

  3. #3
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    Maybe the time for a mandatory donation for every listing? There's a number of people on here using this as a free platform to sell and are clearly making profit, maybe it's time the fundraiser benefited more from that free platform?

  4. #4
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  5. #5
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    Ban the piss takers instead? It would be a shame to shut SC due to a few bad eggs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Maybe the time for a mandatory donation for every listing? There's a number of people on here using this as a free platform to sell and are clearly making profit, maybe it's time the fundraiser benefited more from that free platform?
    The forum charity is not just for sellers to contribute into, it is for all of us who enjoy the forum.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    Close SC access to the piss-takers would be better, IMO.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    How does one contribute.?


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitz View Post
    How does one contribute.?


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app
    https://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fun...15&isTeam=true

    EDIT: Thats the link if you can't see the big red banner. ;-)

    R
    Last edited by ralphy; 31st July 2019 at 09:16.
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitz View Post
    How does one contribute.?


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app
    Just click on the big red banner at the top of the page, easy.

  11. #11
    Master
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    There's another £30 :-)

  12. #12
    Master tiny73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solwisesteve View Post
    There's another £30 :-)
    Nice work. If only the p*ss takers would contribute more then there wouldn't be this debate. There some high volume, high value sellers on here whose names are permanently missing from the fundraiser.

  13. #13
    Master
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    I'd happily give the FR £25 pa just for forum access, think of it as a magazine subscription.

  14. #14
    Craftsman
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    Regular name and shame list to highlight the piss takers?

  15. #15
    Currently there are 4 multipage sticky threads atop the sales forum. I haven't any of it.

    I'd make one locked Sticky Post with the SC rules that everyone should read and agree and adhere to for access to the SC.

    One rule ought to be:

    1. When an item sells, mark your sales post as SOLD and Donated.

    Obviously following an appropriate donation to the fundraiser.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    I am not sure that's the best idea. Like it or not, but some of the forum's appeal comes from its active sales corner. Closing it down makes the forum as a whole less attractive.

    You have set a number of clear and sensible rules for sales corner, however years of experience have shown that there are no consequences if people show disregard for them. I know that you are busy and have no time to micro-police the forum (and the light moderation has a lot going for it), but this is a conundrum that won't solve itself. I bet you the main perpetrators are not even reading this thread as they never stray out of sales corner. And when one of the other members takes action, they get nothing but grief for it. I had a discussion with another member just last week. He says 'why bother if it only gets yourself into trouble'.

    I am sure there are a number of old forum hands who are more than willing to assist you, but you would need to tell them how you want it done. It doesn't have to be a forum police force, one could create a closed group where such cases can be flagged and discussed. Or, as has been suggested before, just make access to sales corner a subscription model: no pay no access. I am sure there are available tools for vbulletin.
    #plantpot

  17. #17
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Currently there are 4 multipage sticky threads atop the sales forum. I haven't any of it.

    I'd make one locked Sticky Post with the SC rules that everyone should read and agree and adhere to for access to the SC.

    One rule ought to be:

    1. When an item sells, mark your sales post as SOLD and Donated.

    Obviously following an appropriate donation to the fundraiser.
    It should also be obligatory to give the price the item sold for.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  18. #18
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    I'd happily give the FR £25 pa just for forum access, think of it as a magazine subscription.
    Who keeps you from doing it?
    #plantpot

  19. #19
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    not bought or sold anything recently

    but donated as its a small price to pay just to enjoy the forum and of course do some good
    Last edited by TKH; 31st July 2019 at 09:44.

  20. #20
    Annual subscription to the forum like the GS Forum I'm on would be a good idea and I'd happily pay it, the fee would cover Eddies admin/IT costs and he could donate from that amount as he likes to the fund raiser, plus enforcing the dealer tax in SC that I'm sure the some of the known dealers just don't pay would be a good start.

    Plus the continued support on here from people just making donations or raffling/selling items for the fundraiser etc

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ben4watches View Post
    Just click on the big red banner at the top of the page, easy.
    I imagine part of the problem is the banner doesn’t appear in mobile mode and if you browse via new posts you don’t see sticky’s. We should all try and remember to drop a bit in now and again, myself included!

    Edit: donation made.
    Last edited by dougair; 31st July 2019 at 09:49.

  22. #22
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    I love that the forum is unregulated but if you want donations driven from SC sales then something has to change, I personally don’t think shutting it down will help at all, there will be no donations coming from it then!

    I would start by making a strong banner at the top of SC asking for a donation if you wish to use this platform to sell, it’s up to the individual to abide by that but it would point out the piss takers.

    I don’t think you would have to police it as others here will happily point out the members flouting donations.

    Either way, SC is the best platform on here to boost the fundraiser.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It's quite easy, I'll monitor donations vs SC activity and if there are people taking the piss (and I know of a few) SC will close. I don't make a penny out of it so it won't affect me.

    Eddie
    What about a sticky that any buyers can fill in saying how much they paid and to who, then it would be easy to compare, I bought a watch for £5200 listed on SC on 6th July, first thing I have bought for ages. on the other hand I am happy to pay a subscription or annual donation to be a part of TZ.

  24. #24
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    The main problem with the SC is that anyone selling a decent watch stands a massive risk of getting attacked by the self appointed police. It must induce a feeling of "why should I pay into the system after having the micky taken out of my sale in such a bloody spiteful manner".

    Therefore keep the BP but charge an annual fee for anyone who wishes to enter it and a much larger fee for those who want to write into it. Also charge, say £25, for an entry in the SC. That way the vipers in the BP subsidise the rest of us, as well as donating to charity, in return for being allowed to conduct themselves in the way that they do. Also by charging a fixed advertising fee of £25 it will put an end to the smelly old sandal for £30 type of advertisements.

    That would generate an income for the Fundraiser.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Who keeps you from doing it?
    I don't need to, I donate when I sell and put stuff for the FR on SC.

    But how about an annual charge for those who go round picking fights with anyone and everyone.

  26. #26
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    And when one of the other members takes action, they get nothing but grief for it
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    the self appointed police
    QED

  27. #27
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Ban the piss takers instead? It would be a shame to shut SC due to a few bad eggs.
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Close SC access to the piss-takers would be better, IMO.

    R
    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Nice work. If only the p*ss takers would contribute more then there wouldn't be this debate. There some high volume, high value sellers on here whose names are permanently missing from the fundraiser.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBowl View Post
    Regular name and shame list to highlight the piss takers?
    Agree with the above. I can’t see that closing SC would achieve anything other than reducing forum traffic, so it would almost certainly be counterproductive from a TF perspective.

    I would target the piss takers.

  28. #28
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    30 more quid in now ...

  29. #29
    Master
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    I've just emptied my PayPal account to the tune of £15, I'll come up with some more when I have it spare.

    As a regular SC user I have to say that just because stuff is listed doesn't mean it sells - more often than not I end up giving a few days on here then stick it on ebay.
    Every couple of months I try a thread with a few bits of jewellery from the shop - sometimes it's low value silver and sometimes high value Diamonds - and the uptake (compared to a couple of years ago) is practically zero.


    **Note** I try and avoid pot/kettle scenarios but the piss takers are blatantly obvious, there are a couple of guys quite clearly making their living buying crap Antiques at charity shops and car boots to sell on SC. Why not just come out as dealers and chuck a few quid at SC? Even if you just tot up the £1 and £2 sums and throw an even tenner in at the end of the month?

    P.S. I'm not that bothered about naming and shaming. If someone has the time then by all means round up "the usual suspects" in a H&V thread.
    Last edited by kevkojak; 31st July 2019 at 10:59.

  30. #30
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    I don't need to, I donate when I sell and put stuff for the FR on SC.

    But how about an annual charge for those who go round picking fights with anyone and everyone.
    Not wanting to pick a fight, and not targeting you - I know you donate plenty of items.

    My observation however is that most of the 'I would pay amount xx for access' crowd and those who continously give smart advice and attack 'forum police' are prominent for their total absence from the fund raiser.
    #plantpot

  31. #31
    Master
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    Stuck a twenty in too. If only some of the SC piss takers would follow suit.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    Stuck a twenty in too. If only some of the SC piss takers would follow suit.
    But how would they know? Do you think only one of them reads this?
    #plantpot

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    What about a sticky that any buyers can fill in saying how much they paid and to who....

    Good idea in principle but I have found over the years quite a few buyers who want to stay anonymous - to the extent of asking me NOT to leave H&V. It'll be a hit and miss system.

  34. #34
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    Surprised no one's suggested tiered membership yet.

    Basic (free) membership allows access to certain parts of the forum such as WT, G&D.

    Premium (paid) membership allows site-wide access including SC..

    Also, separate out SC to Private and Dealer sub-forums, as is done on some other watch fora
    Last edited by gcleminson; 31st July 2019 at 11:06.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    But how would they know? Do you think only one of them reads this?
    I guess so. Not really sure what the answer is to be honest - sad state of affairs.

    There was a discussion a few weeks ago about a member wanting to make a profit on a Rolex, but not too much of a profit (so he was considering selling here for the above RRP dealer offer). However he stated that if he did this he wouldn’t contribute to the fundraiser. It’s this sort of attitude I really don’t understand. You’re considering selling a multi-thousand £ watch on a completely free and safe platform, and you happily state that because you’re not maxing out the profit (and aren’t a dealer) you will not contribute a penny.

    I considered responding but thought ‘seriously, what’s the point?’. I just will never understand how some people’s minds work.

  36. #36
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcleminson View Post
    Surprised no one's suggested tiered membership yet.

    Basic (free) membership allows access to certain parts of the forum such as WT, G&D.

    Premium (paid) membership allows site-wide access including SC..
    Was literally about to type something similar. I’d still expect dealers to cough up a percentage, though.

  37. #37
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    To me the only way really is to make the SC a subscription based part of the forum for sellers, either monthly for those selling occasional items with a limit on sale number or a higher annual fee for those who move larger volumes. Say £20 / month with max 2 sales or £200 / year.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Was literally about to type something similar. I’d still expect dealers to cough up a percentage, though.
    Yup Tony, I edited my post above to take that into account. OF for example separate out the Dealer and Private sales posts using separate sub-forums.

    Obviously, dealers here would be expected to contribute after a sale exactly as they are now, but it would be much more transparent and easier for members to cry foul on - we have to remember with any suggestions like this Eddie's probably not looking for a ton of additional admin and any changes need to fit within the largely self-regulating format
    Last edited by gcleminson; 31st July 2019 at 11:20.

  39. #39
    Master animalone's Avatar
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    You know how I do the monthly Friday watch list ?
    Would you like me to compile a list of the biggest donors over the next couple of months ?

  40. #40
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    A rather timely arrival in the post this morning, this is one of the charities which benefits from the fundraiser.



    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  41. #41
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animalone View Post
    You know how I do the monthly Friday watch list ?
    Would you like me to compile a list of the biggest donors over the next couple of months ?
    No need, I did it last week.

    Here is a list of all donors in 2019 (until 22 July): https://gofile.io/?c=XMBxim
    #plantpot

  42. #42
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcleminson View Post
    Surprised no one's suggested tiered membership yet.

    Basic (free) membership allows access to certain parts of the forum such as WT, G&D.

    Premium (paid) membership allows site-wide access including SC..

    Also, separate out SC to Private and Dealer sub-forums, as is done on some other watch fora
    Similar scenarios have been mentioned in the past, myself included came up with some ideas, Eddie probabley has his reasons for not making changes, if its to keep everything free bar the goodwill of the membership then fair play to him but I feel the membership has changed over the last 2+ years.

    There is now more people that just want SC access and and dont want to involve themselves in other threads, SC is where the main donations should come from, charge a fee to see the forum and the membership will drop massively and will have a negative impact.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by gcleminson View Post
    Surprised no one's suggested tiered membership yet.

    Basic (free) membership allows access to certain parts of the forum such as WT, G&D.

    Premium (paid) membership allows site-wide access including SC..

    Also, separate out SC to Private and Dealer sub-forums, as is done on some other watch fora
    This has been suggested previously when Eddy's flagged the issue, and I think the primary issue is the tax implication. If they're paid to Eddie who then has to transfer into the fundraiser, it's a tax headache for him, and the other way around it is if the funds get paid by members directly into the fundraiser, but then the account 'upgrades' would need to be manually performed by Eddie.

    And probably a whole host of other issues too!

  44. #44
    Master mrwozza70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    £65 donated last week, that's less than a tenner a day from the entire membership. I see Sales Corner is as busy as ever so such a low level of donations is a disappointment.



    Eddie
    That is a real eye opener... and prompted action I didn't want to chip in to a discussion about how Eddie runs his forum. BUT I'll just say this...

    For the majority of sellers that are not 'dealers' but more than likely just 'facilitating a habbit' they are not profiting from SC. Yes, it's currently free... so there's a benefit. But the real benefit is the trust that this forum allows freedom to comment, a healthy feedback system, and some hoops to jump before gaining privilege. This makes it a safe and interesting place to enjoy the hobby, which for most involves experiencing many watches, and hopefully quite a few from Eddie's shop front

    Any views about sellers not ponying up do apply, but also there are many buyers benefits too... not least some great, and some amazing deals... and the other side of all the other forum benefits enjoyed by sellers. Why don't people ever lay any guilt on the buyers to chip in!?

  45. #45
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    There'll be a nice chunk coming in any day now from Ryan for selling his new Hulk to pay for his holiday.

    I'll be starting a clear out of stuff in the next few months and will throw a few things in for auction.
    "A man of little significance"

  46. #46
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrwozza70 View Post
    For the majority of sellers that are not 'dealers' but more than likely just 'facilitating a habbit' they are not profiting from SC. Yes, it's currently free... so there's a benefit. But the real benefit is the trust that this forum allows freedom to comment, a healthy feedback system, and some hoops to jump before gaining privilege. This makes it a safe and interesting place to enjoy the hobby, which for most involves experiencing many watches, and hopefully quite a few from Eddie's shop front

    Any views about sellers not ponying up do apply, but also there are many buyers benefits too... not least some great, and some amazing deals... and the other side of all the other forum benefits enjoyed by sellers. Why don't people ever lay any guilt on the buyers to chip in!?

    But there in lies the problem, watches (straps/winders etc) are the only items which is a direct link with this forum which should be an interest to most of us, everything else is OT and still being advertised for free.

    An example is 3 pimped up Landrover Defenders advertised in the last week with a combined value of over £35K, some of the sellers might chip in to the fundraiser, but there is no guarantee the fundraiser would benefit from such high value items..

  47. #47
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    But there in lies the problem, watches (straps/winders etc) are the only items which is a direct link with this forum which should be an interest to most of us, everything else is OT and still being advertised for free.
    Absolutely nothing is 'OT', see the first line of the first sticky on SC:

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Sales corner is for the use of forum members to sell or trade any item
    "A man of little significance"

  48. #48
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    No need, I did it last week.

    Here is a list of all donors in 2019 (until 22 July): https://gofile.io/?c=XMBxim
    Interesting to see the typical levels of contribution from those who do give, and some of the bigger numbers.

    Also, the German column headings lend a strange sense of authority, at least to this Brit. :).

    Personally I think the discussion about the relative value of the forum misses the point. Eddie does a brilliant job of running it, and all he asks in return is that we chip into his preferred charities. If you are making money from the forum, chip in more.

    If the fundraiser had £1 for every suggestion made to Eddie about subscriptions, sub-forums and bans, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    Some people give to charity, plenty don’t. Those who don’t, aren’t going to start now, so I can quite understand shutting down SC as a response.

    Rather than give Eddie more suggestions, I can think of two things we as a membership and individuals can do.

    1. Put more money in ourselves, even if the dealers don’t, so the issue doesn’t arise.

    2. Don’t buy from dealers who don’t contribute. I know some already do that. If the ‘forum police’ want to provide ‘guidance’ somewhere, so be it. Individuals can either follow it or not.

  49. #49
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    ^ Good post Al. I will contribute more regularly from now on. I see the Fundraiser has had a decent morning too which is great 👍

  50. #50
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    Absolutely nothing is 'OT', see the first line of the first sticky on SC:
    I get that, but it was written 16 years ago when there was a completely different clique to the forum, "any item" in 2003 has now grown into a monster.

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