Reply With QuoteCat 6 isn't fragile. Its thicker than cat 5.
Undertaking rewiring of a house, would really appreciate any advice on how to wire network cable in. Thinking Cat 5 is sufficient as Cat 6 is expensive and fragile, is that right?
Also thinking of putting fibre router and wireless hub out of the way in the loft, then running cables throughout the house, terminated by Google Wi-Fi points and ethernet sockets in some rooms.
This is a chance to get it right as currently don't have great reception so would love some advice and ideas based on experience.
Cat 6 isn't fragile. Its thicker than cat 5.
Ok, thought it had trouble bending round corners. So what does Cat 6 do that Cat 5 doesn't? Is it just a case of future proofing? E.g. Could I do one run of Cat 6 to the TV room or does the whole system need to be Cat 6?Originally Posted by D4RK1
A quick browse of screwfix reckons Cat5E is 25p a metre and Cat6 35p a meter so not a huge difference for the sake of the many years you won’t be rewiring your house and there might be more hardware that takes advantage of greater than Gigabit connections in that time.
It sounds like a great plan to get connectivity around the house. Personally I use gigabit routers via Powerlines but Proper Ethernet would be a step up.
Had my house rewired with multiple Cat5e points in most rooms. Best thing ever done, fibre connection and cat5 work great every time, all the time. They go at 70mbit and is perfect, but think they can do better than that with a faster connection
I'm also considering getting ethernet cabling done around the house - more for a CCTV security system and think Cat5e is plenty, but might as well do Cat6 if it's not much more.
(a) Get Cat 6 or 6a.
(b) Also get fibre for 10G Ethernet put in beside it. (Not expensive).
(c) In terms of cabling, make provision for a wifi access point on every floor (at least one).
Yes, you can run 10G Ethernet over Cat6 or Cat6a but fibre 10G hardware is working out to be cheaper.
** edit **
I should add that the fibre you'd ideally need would be OM3 or OM4 suitable for '10GBASE-SR'.
10G switches are now coming down in price. The MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+IN 4 port 10G switch is very reasonably priced.
Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd July 2019 at 11:13.
Thank you, sounds like good advice.
I was thinking for Google wifi access points - two or maybe three on ground floor (which will be extended), two on first floor (3/4 bedrooms) and one on top floor (just two bedrooms).
What I don't get is how to run the cabling - do I run the fibre in from the street up to say the loft, then into a hub/switch, then run separate cables from the hub to each of the wifi access points and each of the RJ45 sockets planned? Or do you have a single cable running from the hub/switch down to another hub/switch on each floor?
Thinking it's worth future proofing by running a cable down to the bottom of the garden in case I ever manage to fulfill my dream of a home cinema there, but then that needs to be armoured cable I believe if it's buried?
Sounds thorough.
If you have a genuine fibre Internet connection (i.e. with fibre actually entering the house) then it will come in either direct to a router or to an Optical Network Terminator (ONT). Which it will be will depend on the type of fibre connection you have. If the fibre comes in to an ONT then this will, in turn, connect to a router (which could confusingly be called a 'Home Hub' or similar).
If it's an ONT then usually the ONT would be somewhere fairly close to where the fibre enters your premises. From there you'd run Cat5/6/6a to your router (since current BT Openreach ONTs only have copper Ethernet internal ports, as far as I know).
For the avoidance of doubt, when I recommend fibre for 10G in-house Ethernet this is (for the foreseeable future) only for 10G data/file transfers within your premises. For most people there is no affordable Internet connection that goes above 1G in the UK (and even that speed is not widely available).
For the further avoidance of doubt, what most people in the UK call "fibre" isn't really fibre. Most "fibre" Internet connections (such as most of those offered by ISPs using BT Openreach, which is most of them) are Fibre To The Cabinet (FTTC). In this, there is a fibre run from the telephone exchange to your nearest street-side cabinet and then your existing copper phone line is used to make the final connection from the cabinet to your premises. In this case, you simply plug a router (once again often described as a 'Home Hub' or similar) into the appropriate telephone socket.
A quick note on terminology: Although BT and other ISPs refer to 'Home Hubs', this is really quite confusing. What they call a 'Home Hub' is actually a router (usually with a built in 4 port switch).
So whether you have genuine fibre coming into your house (possibly via an ONT) or a FTTC connection, it will come in to a router first of all. From the router you connect via your network cabling to switches.
The physical topology of wiring up your switches, wifi access points, and other devices is really quite flexible. You can connect everything direct to the router, or you can put multiple switches in place, or some combination.
In my own case for example, I have a copper Internet connection into my house. This is plugged into my main router. From one of the Ethernet ports on the router's built in switch I run another cable that goes to the area in my house where most network-connected devices are located. In this location I have three switches with various devices plugged in.
So the physical topology you choose is determined by your house's physical layout, space available and your needs.
Note also that almost all routers you either buy or are supplied by your ISP will only have 1G copper Ethernet (RJ45) connections for the internal network. Once again, I must make it clear that 10G fibre internal networking is only, for the time being, for in-house high speed data/file transfer.
Yes, if buried needs to be armoured. Personally I'd prefer to run an armoured fibre cable for that scenario. This, https://www.fs.com/uk/products/70402.html, is the stuff you need (you need OM3 or OM4 cable, two fibres for a single connection, and duplex LC connector at both ends). It's not expensive.
Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd July 2019 at 16:22.
I assume you are having a professional install of the cable runs?
Are you looking to install the network infrastructure yourself or bring someone else in?
Have a look at ubiquiti unifi options they are potentially more flexible and robust/powerful than the more home based offerings.
Assuming you have FTTP then yes you need to terminate the incoming fibre somewhere and it makes sense to do this as close to the central node as posable.
The network connection stack should look like
In-coming fibre --> Fibre Modem --> Router / Switch --> Wireless Access Points (Each AP is cabled back to the Router)
Something like
If you went via the google options then I expect more like this:
In-coming fibre --> Fibre Modem --> Google Router --> Switch --> Google Access Points (Each AP is cabled back to the switch)
Either way some kind of 24 port switch is reasonably cheap to allow you to manage for wired devices.
Re the garden room run the power for sure run armoured conduit with multiple draws so that when/if you decide to use the room you can pull in the most suitable cable and not have it sat there in the open degrading of years.
Some other things to consider at this point:
Public/Private/Guest networks: Do you want/need to section off some traffic e.g. home work / business traffic from the hue lights, smart thermostats, av controls etc (IoT Internet of Things) these are devices that are considered inherently insecure and can compromise network security
Guest network again do you want a networks friends can use that doesn't allow access to your main network?
Node zero location: Mine is in my loft too but if I had the option to located elsewhere in say the garage or utility room I think I would its a pita to have to go into the loft every time a device hangs or I want to cable/recable devices, fault find slow connectivity etc etc.
What areas to flood with cabling:
Our TV port has four cat5 I thought this would be plenty but still had to buy a small switch to give me additonal capacity, some of these devices might not have a long lifetime these days (My connections: TV, AVR, Blu-ray, TV Box, Fire TV, Now TV, HTPC, Sonos) but think about port density as its cheap to install as part of the initial deployment much more expensive elsewhere and not every location suits the installation of an additonal switch.
Just food for thought...
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd July 2019 at 12:09. Reason: Detail
Ignore the nonsense about running fibre around the house: it will never be used, cost a fortune & be a nightmare to keep working.
Cat 5e is perfectly adequate for domestic installations & much easier to work with that Cat6 or 6a. While Cat6/6a has a higher theoretical bandwidth you're only going to see that if you use Cat6/6a jack modules, patch panels & patch cables AND you make off the cabling perfectly, which isn't particularly easy to do. Any fool (almost) can make off Cat5e & get gigabit speeds down tha cable. Cat6/6a is also a much stiffer cable so harder to install & needs care taking to keep a much bigger bend radius or the cable can be damaged.
Make sure the cable you buy is good quality & avoid anything that has the letters CCA in it (copper clad aluminium).
The only reason to use CAT6/6a is if the circuit is being used for HDMI extension - then the additional bandwidth can be useful & provide better results.
The cabling shouldn't run direct to your router: in the rooms it's terminated onto modular jacks which clip into facia plates while at the router end you should make it off on to a patch panel. Then you use patchcords to connect the required points onto the router or to a network switch. If you use a PoE switch you can power devices like CCTV cameras & access points. Run spare cables for future use for things like CCTV etc.
The maximum length for a copper Ethernet cable is 100m so if the garden run is more than that you'll have to consider fibre. If you can do it in copper then use exterior grade cable & cheap conduit - I've seen heavy duty hosepipe used quite sucessfully. Armoured conduit is overkill. Run at least one spare cable.
It is not nonsense.
(a) If ever the householder wants 10G networking (which is of course inevitable in the longer run), fibre is the cheapest way to do it as things stand. Fibre 10G switches are actually cheaper than copper 10G switches right now.
(b) It does not cost a fortune. Fibre itself is not expensive at all. And, as I pointed out, fibre (SFP+) 10G switches are coming down in price and are only going to get cheaper.
(c) Why do you think it will be a "nightmare to keep working"? There is no magic about it. It doesn't magically stop working. It plugs in and works, much like copper Ethernet.
Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd July 2019 at 16:18.
Interesting points about fibre in the home. As Mark points out there are zero current domestic available providers or services to utilise 10Gb bandwidth.*
If I look back in my commercial roles I can recall token ring at 4Mb being superseded by Ethernet at 10Mb then 100Mb through 1Gb and now 10Gb is common.
In the same way that in the early 2000’s domestic dial up @ 56K was the norm and isdn and leased lines were in the main commercial offerings and today homes with 30-100Mb are plentiful.
With the decline in over the air broadcasting and dvd/Blu-ray sales, and with the increase in our content coming via the internet and our ever increasing resolution standards I’d not argue against future proofing any installation as far as is economically sound.
*I am referring to domestic ISP’s or streaming services providing or requiring 10Gb.
The need for 10Gb for home data transfer is still an interesting one, power users or home workers creating a significant amount of video content is the case that springs to mind I’m sure there are others.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd July 2019 at 15:25. Reason: * clarifying 10Gb need.
10G is available on Macs (though copper) and NAS devices now. Ideal for back-up streaming etc.
10G is also ideal for VM management/backups/failovers and, as Kingstepper mentioned, general data backup.
Whilst the former might seem a bit esoteric for most home users and the latter might seem a little extreme, these are not necessarily so nowadays. Data volumes are ever increasing and backup speed is ever more critical, and more and more people are beginning to run VMs of various types at home.
And even if one does not think that one needs 10G today, it will be de rigeur tomorrow. As you say, might as well future proof now if the opportunity arises.
The switch would also need SFPs, which will increase the price substantially.
You on can get a 10 port 10G switch for around £200 which would make much more sense.
The domestic market usually lags well behind the commercial and we’re far from running fibre to the desk.
Cat5E cabling is all you need. Cat6 allows for longer runs of cabling for signal strength and unless you live in a office building it's not going to provide anything better than Cat5E in short runs. The cost difference between the two is minimal as well unless you're installing miles of cables and many data jacks.
The difference in cables is the twists per inch and Cat5E was the original Cat6 go figure.
Yes, the switch will need SFP+ transceivers but it certainly won't increase the overall price substantially. A four-pack of 10GBASE-SR SFP+ transceivers can be had for £68 on Amazon, for example.
Do you mean a copper 10GBASE-T switch, non-SFP+? I've not noticed any that cheap. Do you have the make/model for this?
Speak for yourself. ;-)
Apologies, I'd misinterpreted my search! Cheapest copper I could find would be 8-port (all 10G!) for about £400.
I still wouldn't advocate fibre in the home - when you look at the port price (passive, active & endpoint), I'd still think the copper would be a cheaper and more flexible solution. Termination (and testing) of fibre is still very specialist and comparatively expensive.
The only time I'm providing FTTD is for security, not bandwidth.
Ah, yes indeed.
My impression is not. Fibre for 10G seems to be beating copper as far as I can see. It might change, copper might get cheaper, but I still don't think that putting in 10GBASE-SR fibre now if you are re-cabling a house will be a wasted investment.
Good grief, no one at home or SOHO needs to do their own termination. Just buy pre-built cables. As I've been saying, it really is not expensive! You don't have to worry about termination -- it's been done. As for testing, plug it in and see if it works; if not, send back.
It's just not that big a deal. Honestly. Really.
I must admit that pre-built cables might not work so well if you want wall sockets. However, it is possible that there are wall sockets that have a duplex LC sockets on the back, allowing pre-built cables to be plugged right in. I've not looked.
The thing is that, even if the end user doesn't need fibre right now, if they are re-cabling their house then I really do see no need to avoid installing fibre now for future-proofing. I keep on saying this but 10GBASE-SR fibre itself (particularly in the form of prebuilt cables with duplex LC connectors on each end) really is not expensive. And later on if/when you want it, it'll be there.
I sort of see where you're coming from, but wouldn't agree.
The majority of domestic environments are not suitable for pulling in pre-conectorised fibre (notches in joists, conduits to backboxes and filthy behind fascias). You wouldn't pull in copper patch leads with connectors on the end through the walls/floor/ceiling!
Copper will support 10/100/1000/10G without the need for different connector interfaces and will support PoE. It's way more flexible.
Additionally fibre is good for switch to switch or switch to server connectivity. The majority of consumer devices will only have copper connections, meaning that you'd have to do additional conversion at the device end if you've put fibre in.
If fibre isn't being widely deployed (to the device) in the commercial environment, it's unlikely to happen in the domestic environment any time soon.
simple cat5e to wall sockets in each room, that's fine enough for every application. tbh even at work we don't go higher than 1gig cat5e. 1gig is faster than our internet, by a factor of 10, plus our own tests have shown 1gig is way faster than our file server can cope. Honestly higher than cat5e is a waste of money. IMHO.
When I was involved with multiroom, I always ran two runs of Cat cable to all connections to ensure a single run is not compromised in any way. Tuck the second run inside the backbox.
I (with an electrician mate) ran CAT6 throughout my house a couple of years ago. Router, 24 port switch, at least one set of double jacks in each room with a redundant cable in case of a problem.
Before terminating all the cabling, I also installed 2 x Ubiquiti WIFI Extenders (POE) on upstairs/downstairs hallway ceilings. These cope brilliantly with everything I currently require: streaming via a PLEX server installed on a MAC in a playroom, to all TVs/Devices in the house attached to the network. They also cope well with Netflix/Amazon Prime (whilst also using other devices).
We've actually never bothered terminating the cabling (or patching the switch) and the whole thing was pretty much a waste of time, for the last couple of years anyway. I suppose I will terminate eventually as I doubt as the kids get older and bandwidths of streaming/gaming increase, the WIFI will cope. I assume CAT6 will cope...
I have quite a lot of CAT6 left over which you are welcome to have, it's just taking up room in the garage!
Thanks for the responses everyone, really helpful.
Do you have recommended sources for the cables and other hardware needed? Amazon links ideal!
I think will price up the fibre option and see whether it's worth it.
Otherwise I like the idea of flooding the TV room with wall sockets, will need about 6 I reckon so might even go for 8. Does each need to be a separate run of cabling or can you just have on run with a hidden switch?
Only a few other rooms will require a wall socket as well as the points to connect the wireless access points. I'll stick with Google wifi as I am already pretty heavily invested.
Excellent advice... cable is cheap... the hassle and time of installation is where the 'cost' is.
tbh I'm more a fan of perhaps only a couple max. in each room and then a small gig switch to break out from there, though it depends upon where the sockets need to be in the rooms.
I assume you'll be using proper modular sockets? Yes?
A trick I use btw is mounting sockets on skirting boards. So use a plunge cutter to cut the required template on the skirting and into the plaster behind - use the modular faceplate to mark the cutout you need to make. This way you can mount the faceplate directly onto the skirting so no horrible surface backboxes and no messy/hard digging a recess into a brick/breezblock wall. If you're running the cables around the outside of the house then you can go directly with a hole where the cutout is, straight through to outside. Then thread outdoor cat5e through. Another trick you can do with skirting, but only if it's not been fitted yet, is hide the lan cable behind it or even drill a connection hole between rooms with a hole behind the skirting. Easy :-)
pm me if you want a list of parts... just to try and help that's all.
Good idea re the skirting board, they have to come off to fit flooring, so I was thinking a conduit to pull cables through, E. G. For speaker cable.
Thank you, I'll send you a pm.
Personally, don’t think sockets at skirting level ideal - can get knocked and will look better level with power sockets (and OP is rewiring house).
Each to his own. I find they look very well hidden on the skirting (white on white) and since they're behind things e.g. hifi rack, tv cabinet, sideboard (where the router and switch sit) then they never get knocked.
Steve
Ah but my skirting boards will mainly not be white, there's wooden framing in the front two rooms so the skirting boards match those and I don't want white skirting boards in the TV room where I am trying to keep it as dark as possible.
What are modular sockets?
Pro system based around typically 2x or 4x faceplates (2x being the standard 85mm size, 4x double mains socket type size) and a 25x50mm modules. You could have a cat5e module, or BT socket, or RJ11 or cat6, even fibre coupler etc...
I use these, have the quad versions. They do protrude a bit more from the wall but the connections are vertical which makes thing look a lot neater, well I think so
https://www.connectixcablingsystems....l-outlets.html
Ah got it, thanks, that's what I envisage but will have to speak to the electrician to see what he has in mind.Pro system based around typically 2x or 4x faceplates (2x being the standard 85mm size, 4x double mains socket type size) and a 25x50mm modules. You could have a cat5e module, or BT socket, or RJ11 or cat6, even fibre coupler etc...
Could be a good option in back of a cabinet in the TV room.I use these, have the quad versions. They do protrude a bit more from the wall but the connections are vertical which makes thing look a lot neater, well I think so
https://www.connectixcablingsystems....l-outlets.html
When we built our new build we ran cat5e absolutely everywhere. Things like the Sky Q boxes run off the wired network instead of the 5g wifi, media centres, plex client, NAS, 4x Unifi access points, VM server etc all wired in and it works brilliantly. Wifi has its uses but you will struggle to stream high bitrate 4k content over it. As someone said earlier - run 2 cables to each point incase one fails. For the wifi points you mentioned Googles solution - never tried it but the Unifi stuff works really well - i have it at work, home and installed it at a few friends houses and never had an issue. They are easy to expand as well should the need arise.
I ran copper cored CAT5/6 cable around my last three house rebuilds. Also use the same cable for CCTV with a balun at each end so the CAT cable can carry the signal down one pair and 12v down the remaining cores twisted together. It's much easier than trying to use shotgun cable.
I also run 2x sat cables to each room too. From my "equipment room" (ie cupboard on landing) where the master socket is, I have my BT modem (soon changing to VM), feeds a Netgear 24 way POE switch then all the network incomers on a patch panel below. The POE feeds 5 Cisco WAPs that I have strategically placed around the house.
My printer plugs into the switch as does my CCTV recorder for remote access and my NAS drives.
If you're running cables, hard wired CCTV is well worth considering. I buy my kit from CCTV 42 (part of the 911 Virgin business). No connection, just a happy customer, their website contains lots of useful videos on the topic.
In the main rooms, I then have a double plate that has network socket or two and a SAT/DAB/TV triple. In the main TV room, the network socket then feeds a local switch to allow the TV, DAB, Blu Ray etc to have their own network feeds.
Just switching to Virgin Media who have 108mbs for less than £20 a month vs BT 50mbs for £35.
by all means cost the fibre against cat6 (or cat7) and it is true that fibre 10GB switches are more available than copper 10G switches but that is changing and the price difference and availability is evening out.
Copper installation could be done and terminated by a budding DIYist - Fibre would need a specialist with specialist equipment and you would want it all certified etc.. - then the switches and patching can be done by the budding DIY'ist.
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