I think it's finally time I owned a Speedmaster Pro. I've considered the many LEs and variants, but the Pro with hesalite, big box, NATO and eye glass keeps calling.
One thing puzzles me though, RRP is £3810 but 2-year-old or even newer, mint examples can go from £2,300 to £2,700. Why is there such a huge drop in value on these? £1,500 loss over two years on an iconic watch seems a big hit.
Also, the bracelet worries me. I'm expecting to struggle to get a fit, as I do with the AT. I'm not a huge fan of the Seamaster clasp mod as it looks too chunky to me. Has anyone tried the 1171/633 on theirs? I used to have it on an SM300 and I liked the vintage rattly charm. Are there any other endlinks that work with the 1171 for a good fit without having to file down?
Cheers in advance
I think that the price drop for second hand examples is just a reflection of availability. The watch is available on demand pretty much everywhere. And certainly until very recently it was easy to negotiate 10-20% discount at an AD.
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I had the Seamster clasp on mine and loved it. Without it the watch was a pain in the rear. If you look at the Tokyo editions these look to come with it as standard now. They have to give you something extra for the added £2k I guess.
I would personally get the sapphire sandwich as it's more hard wearing and you get to see the movement through the case back.
Lovely watches but after two years of wearing I had it sat next to another Swiss brand with 4 wears of wear the Omega metal looked like it had double the wear (it didn't) and was made from shopping trolley metal. Couldn't take a daily beating (I work in an office) and in the end I sold it and bought an SLA021 and SRPC49k1. Given the choice I would go for the SLA021 variant of the MM300 every time.
Still, nice watches.
They seem to fit me well on a standard bracelet - I've even put one on my Speedy Tuesday. I have a spare adjustable clasp (which I'll use), but don't need it on the Speedmaster.Originally Posted by Onelasttime
I think it's finally time I owned a Speedmaster Pro. I've considered the many LEs and variants, but the Pro with hesalite, big box, NATO and eye glass keeps calling.
One thing puzzles me though, RRP is £3810 but 2-year-old or even newer, mint examples can go from £2,300 to £2,700. Why is there such a huge drop in value on these? £1,500 loss over two years on an iconic watch seems a big hit.
Also, the bracelet worries me. I'm expecting to struggle to get a fit, as I do with the AT. I'm not a huge fan of the Seamaster clasp mod as it looks too chunky to me. Has anyone tried the 1171/633 on theirs? I used to have it on an SM300 and I liked the vintage rattly charm. Are there any other endlinks that work with the 1171 for a good fit without having to file down?
Cheers in advance
With a good discount the model was available for around £2500 new until fairly recently, hence the prices. Although SC is not truly reflective, and prices have firmed up - maybe partly down to the 50th anniversary and 2 prices rises in the last year.
The sapphire sandwich is nice, but always worked out around £1k more new, so much better as a used buy - there just aren't as many coming up, plus they miss something in looks with a very vintage looking Moon Watch. I'd still like to add one at some stage.
As for wear - all my Omega watches seem to show wear more than my steel Rolex watches. I have no idea if that's down to the generally type of brushing, or the steel used.
It's just a matter of time...
I much prefer the 1171/1 on the Speedy, as the standard bracelet makes it feel really heavy on the wrist. It also looks better, to my eye. Mine is a 3570 and the clasp on the 1998 bracelet only had two adjustment points, the brand new models also have far better bracelets, no pins and collars.
Thanks for this. It's now convinced me to sell my Speedmaster Reduced and get the Professional. Wife not happy at yet more watch spend
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They’re freely available, that’s what limits prices....if you could walk in and buy a Daytona at retail, they’d be discounted too.
But they’re 3.8k now, prices will rise to reflect this as the market adjusts.
A number of UK sellers on Chrono24 have these brand new for around £3200... that’s where I’d be buying from..I think it's finally time I owned a Speedmaster Pro. I've considered the many LEs and variants, but the Pro with hesalite, big box, NATO and eye glass keeps calling.
One thing puzzles me though, RRP is £3810 but 2-year-old or even newer, mint examples can go from £2,300 to £2,700. Why is there such a huge drop in value on these? £1,500 loss over two years on an iconic watch seems a big hit.
Cheers in advance
I agree with lughugger, but I'd add that the picture is far more complicated. It's not simply availability, there's also a question of the many variations available on even the classic Speedmaster Pro. The fact is that while prices for the modern version are dangerously close to reasonable, prices climb sharply with different plating for the movement, different movements, all metal and specific dates, earlier case shapes and so on. As such, I think it's not just availability, it's also a single model with enough variation to allow collectors to push up the prices of rarer variations to the usual insane levels while having little effect on the more common models. LIkewise, Omega have pushed their prices up but the second hand market is a victim of the continuous success of the model.
I think I paid around £800 for mine as a second hand Japanese import about a decade or so ago and I'm content with a vanilla model, delryn brake and all. It's not a watch I wear that often at the moment, but I feel an intense pleasure when I return to it after a break. I'd love an early 321 one as a collector, but I'd not feel as comfortable wearing it with the gay abandon I wear my Speedmaster with. I take comfort in the fact that the later 861/1861 has seen a great deal more time in space than the 321 ever did.
Obviously someone has to buy new sometimes, but it doesn't have to be you.
That's what I was thinking. Perfect!I much prefer the 1171/1 on the Speedy, as the standard bracelet makes it feel really heavy on the wrist. It also looks better, to my eye. Mine is a 3570 and the clasp on the 1998 bracelet only had two adjustment points, the brand new models also have far better bracelets, no pins and collars.
Are those the 633 end links?
I'm going to have do some watch box juggling and man maths
Wise words. I was fancying the 'AD Experience' but a glass of champers and a smile ain't worth £1,500.
You can get a brand new hesalite model with a 5-year warranty for £3150 from Hackett Watches.
https://www.hackettwatches.com/hw/items/JWEBA48NDJ
The reason why the new models depreciate is that they are not the real thing. If you are the sort of person who is inclined to flip you need something that not only holds its value but increases.
Therefore restrict your choice to a decent 3570 model. This is the one that collectors want.
This is the only model that I would buy, it's the real McCoy. Virtually the original spec that is still 100% useable. Everything else is a glorified homage model so to speak.
But apart from a handful of models, every watch depreciates. Like all other manufactured goods.
Great watch and had 10 or so,a fair few step dials and let them all go stupidly.A few weeks ago I bought a very nice tritium model,and a week after a 2012 model!,I negotiated a great deal on the 2012 one that I just had to buy it,a full set too.
Ive never really had issues with sizing the bracelet on any of them,but for the most part with the exception of the 2 I've just bought were worn on a NATO.
I do prefer the tritium model with its creamy plots.
But as you've mentioned the new price at just under 4K over say a 2017 big box model at or around £2200 seems a big hit for such an iconic timepiece,more so as were celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Moon landing just today.
Im wearing mine as I watch them land right now.......
Yes those are 633 end links, bought from Cousins some time ago. I had to reduce the width slightly to get them to fit, using some sand paper and garryflex.That's what I was thinking. Perfect!
Are those the 633 end links?
I'm going to have do some watch box juggling and man maths
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Care to share how the current basic Moonwatch differs from the 3570? The retail package is certainly more fancy on the latest model but how are the watches different, and what exactly makes the 3570 the real thing? How about a 90s 3590, or 80s 145.022, are they also the real McCoy?
Before some of the morons here ruined things I was able to get these BNIB for members for around £2.4k plus a small fundraiser donation. I'm still able to get them at that price but no longer for members as the AD had enough of getting messed around (to the extent that I was categorically told if I got any more watches that were for someone other than myself they would refuse to deal with me any more).
Still, you should be paying less than £3k for one even if you won't get anywhere near that £2.4k figure.
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I’m no Speedmaster expert, but I don’t think that’s true.
The box has changed over the years, and the bracelet was given solid end links and a clasp with little micro-adjustment, but it is more or less the same watch. Last major change was from tritium to luminova at the end of the 90s.
The bracelet comes in for some complaint, but it can have the Seamaster’s ‘glidelock’ clasp retro-fitted, or you can go for the 1171 vintage reproduction bracelet. That’s not including all the second-hand/aftermarket choices, which are many.
Anyway, the current watch is no less of a Speedmaster Pro than anything from the 2000s/90s etc.
I think the reason for its depreciation is that a) there are lots of them, b) whilst popular and iconic, its market is generally the smaller, value-minded enthusiast market, rather than the luxury market which Rolexes tap into, and c) the price has been raised considerably recently, without that being accompanied by the massive demand which you see with sports Rolexes.
Last edited by Dark Side of The Loon; 22nd July 2019 at 09:07.
The OP does not want to take a financial hit which implies that he wants price protection. The best way to do this is to buy a 3570 because that is what collectors want. Yes the changes are small but you know just how picky some WIS s are. Purity and originality are the name of the game.
The proof of the eating is in the pudding, very few people take a bath on a 3570.
I don’t suppose there’s the slightest chance that choosing and owning a watch could be about pleasure, and that the grinding obsession with ‘devaluation’ could be treated as slowly strangling enjoyment.
Thought not.
Agreed. A good summary.
But isn’t that because they have finished depreciating, rather than being more special than the current reference?
I understand why someone would choose to collect 50s/60s/70s Speedmasters, all the little variations and details etc, but I can’t see why a 3570 is significantly more desirable than the 3113.
It’s quite reasonable to buy with an eye to not taking a bath, but you can pick up a new one for £3150 from Dom Hackett, which shouldn’t lead to massive depreciation, and you have a new watch with warranty etc.
ETA: Of course, if he wants a really good deal, he should wait for one to appear on Sales Corner...
Last edited by Dark Side of The Loon; 22nd July 2019 at 09:40.
This is precisely my point, if he buys a 3570, he wont take a hit. Even if he buys from Dom Hackett, he is going to lose money.
That's a real shame, sounds like a fantastic deal!
I am tempted by one from Hackett Watches at £3150 but do you think I could do better elsewhere (I assumed that an AD wouldn't be able to get close to that)?
Oh, I agree with that. What I disagree with was your saying that the 3570 was superior to the more recent watches.
I suspect the value of the later models (with fancy boxes and magnifying glasses, etc) is hit on the used market, because (all that frippery aside) the watch is still pretty much the same.
You can pick up a later 90s ones, have it professionally serviced and it'll still cost a lot less than buying the latest from Omega.
Lots of people want a new watch for a variety of reasons and the presentation is a part of that, people buying used are (usually) more interested in the watch, so why spend hundreds of pounds on something that will clutter your loft and not be of much interest to other used buyers?
I could be wrong, but that's my thinking on the price hit (the fact you don't have to sacrifice your first born at the local ADs to get on the list to buy one is a factor too - Imagine, just buying a watch you want...)
M
I see what you mean. I wrote my last paragraph rather badly, what I should have said was that the 3570 spec was more akin to the original, albeit in a very minor way.
Apologies for creating a mis understanding.
There is no difference between the 3570 and the current watch apart from the bracelet. Oh and you get the box set and a 5 year warranty on a new one. Mick doesn't know what he is talking about (true collectors want the earlier examples, and generally with the original moonwatch movement) - there is little difference in price between the two modern models on the used market, so just buy the best example. Personally, I like the extra straps etc. In the box set, but I wouldn't go too crazy price wise to buy them.
I still think the moonwatch is a great buy. When at list or close to it. Thankfully you shouldn't have to pay that much with a little work.
It's just a matter of time...
Simple fact is that the 3570 is more sought after than the current model, despite the box and contents. The original 145 is even more sought after but you are going to pay mega bucks for it.
Of like mind
I am hoping the watch brings me a great deal of pleasure, in the same way that researching the potential watch purchase is pleasurable.
The pleasure will be infinitely increased if I can buy the watch for a significant amount less than RRP. I fail to see a problem with this?
Another advantage I found was what the wife was a lot happier for me to buy dishy watches when I could demonstrate that I could expect to break even if I ever sold them.
Happy wife, happy life.
Would you care to peruse my earlier question where I asked in what way the 3570 was any more original than the current model? I am interested in what it is you think makes the 3570 a better choice. I had one and I agree they are great but other than the lume change in 1997, the watch head has stayed exactly the same since 1971. It is only the bracelet and box which has changed in any meaningful way. If you really want as close to the spec used on Apollo missions as possible, you need a Pre-Moon with 321 movement, very different gravy.
- - - Updated - - -
See above. You are talking out of your hat on this mate, once the depreciation is out of the way, the suitcase version is worth more simply because it is the same thing with more kit and a better buiilt bracelet.
Last edited by Padders; 22nd July 2019 at 13:27.
Reading that load of cods I genuinely give up. Horse to water blah blah blah.
I am trying to be reasonable here Mick, but I am confused as to which bit exactly do you have an issue with. I am being factual, you are seemingly putting a finger in the air and declaring the 3570 a better bet for some reason even though it is the same watch. You seem to be saying that the 3570 is somehow closer to the Apollo watches and therefore more a purists choose. How so? In actual fact, the suitcase set does fetch a premium over a boxed 3570 even after the warranty has expired (which used to be only 2 years and is now 5) and depreciation levelled off. If by new models you mean the Limited Editions, then you are partly right, some lose and some gain but that's not what I think you meant.
To quote you exactly
"This is the only model that I would buy, it's the real McCoy. Virtually the original spec that is still 100% useable. Everything else is a glorified homage model so to speak."
How so? How are the 3570s any less a homage to the watches taken to the moon than the suitcase watch, or earlier 3590 or 145.022? Be honest, you are making it up as you go along.
Last edited by Padders; 22nd July 2019 at 13:45.
This is going to be my last on this because 10 more minutes of you and I am going to jump off the top of a very tall building.
You quoted thread 13, please now refer to thread 28.
If you don't hear any more from me, you may assume that I am a mash of blood and guts at the bottom of the building.
You paint a graphic picture! I wouldn’t want that on my conscience so let’s leave it there.
Oh wow, that is fantastic deal. Shame it's no longer the case as i would've definitely been interested.
Were people taking the piss and trying to discount it further? Or just being rude or both?
Aren't the subdials on the 311 ref non-textured ? The 3570 has the concentric rings on each sub-dial. After that, agreed, same watch.
Both models have concentric circles on the Sub Dials - in fact some of the 3570's are so difficult to see the concentric circles because of the colour/coating (the colour of black was different at stages over the years of production) you'd need a loupe.
It's just a matter of time...
In truth, Omega have been stamping-down on discounting; Swatch say that denying stock to grey dealers has cut into their profits, but needs to be done. There will, I’m sure, always be deals to be done, they can’t (unlike Rolex) stamp out discounting entirely; but look, for example, at the grey dealer Iconic. They are now offering 8%.
It’s certainly more expensive than a year ago; which is why I bought used on SC. The used market hasn’t caught-up. Yet.
Incidentally, as a result of trying to cut-out grey dealers, Swatch companies now have huge levels of stock. Are they going to do a Richemont and destroy stuff?
Last edited by paskinner; 23rd July 2019 at 16:49.
They certainly will not have the balls to admit that they have set the RRP to high and drop prices. When will the penny drop in Switzerland with the manufacturers that if you’re stock is not shifting then something is not quite right and too keep producing more stock is just stupidity.
I’m sure I remember seeing a post on here ages ago where the current model had smooth sub dials. If they are now concentric again, could Omega have inadvertently introduced a future ‘rare model’ in another 50 years time ?
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I'll get a loupe out tonight and get my two out of the safe and check - the stock image on the Omega site for the model clearly shows concentric sub dials.
It's just a matter of time...
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