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Thread: is there any point in me building a reputation with an AD?

  1. #1
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    is there any point in me building a reputation with an AD?

    I'm relatively new to the watch world. I have 1 nice watch, 1 Seiko beater and I'm saving up for my first Rolex. I don't want to have a huge collection but a handful of nice watches to enjoy and give to my son

    I've been thinking about this, for someone in my position is there any point in building a reputation with an AD?

    Established collectors that have built a reputation started back in the day when you could actually walk into a shop and buy watches. It seems beyond daft to me that I could sit on a waiting list for more than a year for a Tudor BB58, pay the RRP and at the end of the day it gets me very little clout as a buyer. It seems like years ago if you wanted a Daytona you could buy a Sub and a GMT to build up a sales history. Now the idea of buying a sub and GMT would get you laughed out of any shop in the world

    I'm settling into the mind set that its better for me to pay over list price on the grey market on a watch that I want and get it now, rather than spending thousands at an AD trying to build up a reputation that will never come close to guys that have been shopping there for 20+ years - then once I have built up a reputation it earns me the honor of sitting on more lists for years

    I'm interested to hear people's thoughts, I like the idea of establishing a rapport with an AD but the whole process feels outdated and a bit depressing to me now?
    Last edited by Bclark; 17th July 2019 at 09:47.

  2. #2

    is there any point in me building a reputation with an AD?

    Don’t know how old you are but if you start building a reputation you should at least be able to pass that on to your son even if you don’t get the watches you want.

  3. #3
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    I'd never considered that actually, great point

  4. #4
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    I feel like it’s just pandering to the dealers personally and I doubt they’ll do you any favours in return.

    The idea that you have to shell out on xyz watches before you can get the one you want just seems ridiculous.

    I quite like Rolex watches and especially the older ones, but I personally feel with all the hoops they want people to jump through etc and hype it just makes me want to look at other brands instead.

    Rolex obviously hold their value better than most but if you are intending to keep long term and hand down to your son then this is irrelevant.

    What about something like a Dornbluth for example, where you can specify what you want and it is made to order for you. That’s just an example and their styles may not appeal to you of course.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bclark View Post
    I'm relatively new to the watch world. I have 1 nice watch, a Seiko beater and I'm saving up for my first Rolex. I don't want to have a huge collection but a handful of nice watches to enjoy and give to my son

    I've been thinking about this, for someone in my position is there any point in building a reputation with an AD?

    Established collectors that have built a reputation started back in the day when you could actually walk into a shop and buy watches. It seems beyond daft to me that I could sit on a waiting list for more than a year for a Tudor BB58, pay the RRP and at the end of the day it gets me very little clout as a buyer. It seems like years ago if you wanted a Daytona you could buy a Sub and a GMT to build up a sales history. Now the idea of buying a sub and GMT would get you laughed out of any shop in the world

    I'm settling into the mind set that its better for me to pay over list price on the grey market on a watch that I want and get it now, rather than spending thousands at an AD trying to build up a reputation that will never come close to guys that have been shopping there for 20+ years - then once I have built up a reputation it earns me the honor of sitting on more lists for years

    I'm interested to hear people's thoughts, I like the idea of establishing a rapport with an AD but the whole process feels outdated and a bit depressing to me now?
    I would seem that being a nice person that's interested in watches doesn't get you far.
    A purchase history is the only way to get any of the desirable SS models.
    You hear the odd success story, but mostly, money talks.

  6. #6
    I am sure more appropriate word is a relationship.
    Is it worth building a relationship with your AD?
    Sure, if you fancy him/her.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 17th July 2019 at 09:51.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefs View Post
    I would seem that being a nice person that's interested in watches doesn't get you far.
    A purchase history is the only way to get any of the desirable SS models.
    You hear the odd success story, but mostly, money talks.
    I saw a video recently about this and it may be a load of rubbish but they said that unless you spend huge money on Rolex and have done for a while or are a local prominent person/celebrity then you have more or less no chance of getting the desirable models at Rrp from and AD.

    The video said they will take your details, put you on the “list” and then throw it in the bin after you leave.

    As I said this may be nonsense but there might be something in it.

  8. #8
    Go independent to build a meaningful relationship with the watchmaker directly. The CEO of Rolex won’t come and hand deliver your watch, but a watchmaker might.

    Best to stay away from the big brands. Life is much more exciting.

  9. #9
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    Wandered into my “local” AD in May to enquire about a steel datejust
    Tried one on and when removing my LVC we chatted watches.
    Finally decided on the Wimbledon dial which they didn’t have in stock and the subject changed to customers buying other pieces to get what they want..
    Took all my details and told me he would call next day to confirm timescale.
    I’m still waiting to hear back.
    Tbh I’ve only ever bought Rolex watches but the whole scenario has put me off buying from an AD or even walking into one

  10. #10
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    Sad but true.
    And even worse, you could spend thousands getting known at an AD only to be overlooked when a bigger fish comes along.

  11. #11
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    I’m in the same boat as you. While I’ve been trying to acquire my first Rolex I’ve looked at several models and while I haven’t been put off, there are some AD’s I won’t visit again. I want to get my first Rolex from an AD but I also know there’s other models I want. I drop into the same two AD’s as I’m mindful if the AD has its status revoked. In the end I keep perspective I won’t buy a watch I don’t like just for the sake of establishing a relationship. The two AD’s will be my first port of call if I have any watch/ jewellery needs. Hopefully it will work out

  12. #12
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    No, unless you spend big.

    Nobody is going to remember your 2k poverty-grade Tudor purchase from a year ago. However, if you are able to spend money on a tt datejust and then can ask another sports watch on top of that, then probably yes you'll have that Daytona sooner than later.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollipekka View Post
    No, unless you spend big.

    Nobody is going to remember your 2k poverty-grade Tudor purchase from a year ago. However, if you are able to spend money on a tt datejust and then can ask another sports watch on top of that, then probably yes you'll have that Daytona sooner than later.
    your comment perfectly sums up what is so depressing about the AD situation to me :D

    The watch I'm ultimately after is a ceramic Sea Dweller. Even given the insane grey market prices it seems to be my only option

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollipekka View Post
    ... 2k poverty-grade Tudor ...


    I'm still trying to justify a Seiko Turtle at £300. FML as the kids say.

  15. #15
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    The expectation that one will go on bended knee to dealers, chucking money at things you don't want in the hope of being allowed to chuck more money at the thing you do want, strikes me as the very definition of insanity. I was never likely to buy a Rolex anyway, but this pretty well hardens my resolve!

  16. #16
    This is a good point. I’ve spent a decent amount at one AD and don’t get any favours but at another do ok.
    I think if I was starting again I would probably just pay over the odds and enjoy it although this whole saga had put me off Rolex ownership.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by awright101 View Post
    This is a good point. I’ve spent a decent amount at one AD and don’t get any favours but at another do ok.
    I think if I was starting again I would probably just pay over the odds and enjoy it although this whole saga had put me off Rolex ownership.
    I agree, a few years ago I wanted a Rolex really badly but I have got to the point now where I am not bothered at all.

    The whole madness with prices, availability and they are just so popular now.

    They are a good watch and I don’t dislike them but they’ve just lost their appeal a bit for me.

  18. #18
    To get the watches you want it’d be easier just to get a Saturday job at Frazer Hart.

  19. #19
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    No,I could have bought any number of watches yesterday from a vintage Daytona to 2 new ones.
    I was in jeans and tee shirt and not even wearing a watch.

    I met a Tudor rep in one of the shops we had a chat and he told me they couldn’t make some models fast enough due to them getting far more popular,but there where still other nice Tudors if I wanted them.

    Why worry about buying a watch that isn’t available anyway?

  20. #20
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollipekka View Post
    Nobody is going to remember your 2k poverty-grade Tudor purchase from a year ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    I'm still trying to justify a Seiko Turtle at £300
    A few days ago, a friend was astonished to hear that I had spent as much as £108 on a watch. I felt very decadent and chose not to start off on a paragraph starting oh, this Seiko 5 is just my beater.....

    Presumably a lot of these impossible to get Rolexes are getting bought up by people with the money but not the opportunity to buy a steel Patek at MRSP. What level of frustration lies above them, I dunno. But frustration at desiring what one cannot have seems to be available to all.

  21. #21
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    Unless the AD is a personal friend of yours, i.e where you and your wives regularly go out to social events together etc, then you are just another punter who walks through the door into their shop. You are just kidding yourself about building a relationship unless you are a really good personal friend or spend mega bucks with him on a very regular basis.

    By all means get your name down on the list because that is all you can do.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Unless the AD is a personal friend of yours, i.e where you and your wives regularly go out to social events together etc, then you are just another punter who walks through the door into their shop. You are just kidding yourself about building a relationship unless you are a really good personal friend or spend mega bucks with him on a very regular basis.

    By all means get your name down on the list because that is all you can do.
    +1, there's no point deluding yourself about forming a 'relationship'.

    I`ve no urge to own these 'desirable' models, they simply don`t appeal to me, but I do think the supply situation is absurd. Grovelling for the privilege of being allowed to pay several thousand pounds for a watch is crazy in the real world.

    My advice to those who crave these models is to simply accept you're not going to own one, move on and stop the wanting, have the self-discipline not to become part of the madness. If these models were freely available much of the demand would evaporate.

    It's only another watch at the end of the day.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherCain View Post
    The expectation that one will go on bended knee to dealers, chucking money at things you don't want in the hope of being allowed to chuck more money at the thing you do want, strikes me as the very definition of insanity. I was never likely to buy a Rolex anyway, but this pretty well hardens my resolve!
    Couldn't agree more! What a mad world we live in - I am naive enough to cling to the idea that the point of shops was to sell you things and that custom is something sought by the shop, not for you to grovel to them in the hope that they might deign to rip you off. And if you were daft enough to 'build a relationship', who's to say that you'd receive any sort of benefit from it at all????

  24. #24
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    Based on my own experience I’d buy from sales corner, friend or a grey dealer.
    I’ve bought my last 2 this way.
    I really don’t think I’d bother with the ADs again, about as much as they bother with me.
    Time will tell, but if this pattern continues and things change in the future, will we laugh and walk away when they try to sell us a Rolex at full retail?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherCain View Post
    The expectation that one will go on bended knee to dealers, chucking money at things you don't want in the hope of being allowed to chuck more money at the thing you do want, strikes me as the very definition of insanity. I was never likely to buy a Rolex anyway, but this pretty well hardens my resolve!
    This, it's beyond irrational, somewhat akin to willingly embracing institutionalization.

  26. #26
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    I have a couple of Rolex's neither of which were bought through an AD. Similar to you I don't envisage spending enough with one AD to build a relationship to get a model I want.

    To me it made more sense to pay a little over for a watch i wanted rather than spend money on something i didn't, just to get what i did later down the line. I actually popped into an AD at the weekend to put my name down for a BB58, first question - have you shopped here before?

    No

    Oh....well....we have a long list.

    It's not worth it to me and it's not that special being in an AD (for me at least). They did have a white 39OP that caught my eye but tbh I didn't want to stay in the shop any longer as the experience from them was one of just wanting to get me out of there.

  27. #27
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    is there any point in me building a reputation with an AD?

    First, don’t include your son in this....he may not ŵant a watch! Second, there are available choices still. I’d propose the DateJust 41mm in either dark rhodium or blue dial. Demand for these is growing sharply, partly because of the general shortage, but also because they are exceptional watches.
    I’d order the least expensive....smooth steel bezel. Demand for these is already shooting up in Asia. You may have to wait a few months, but you will then own a future classic. Don’t delay if you are serious.

  28. #28
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Building a reputation? Spending a shed load of money on watches you don't really want, you mean?

    Up to you.

    There's no watch I want enough to buy a load I don't to be 'allowed' entry into the club.

    If you feel you HAVE to join the Rolex club and that's the price of admittance, it's up to you to decide.

    For me, it just tarnishes the brand and makes it a club I have no desire to join...

    M

    PS It helps that I'm not a huge fan of any of their watches either (), but honestly, I can't see that any watch from any make would ever be worth this kind of pandering...
    Last edited by snowman; 17th July 2019 at 12:11.

  29. #29
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    I think we need to keep this in proportion.

    If you go back say 2 years, some chancer would casually walk into an AD and demand a hefty discount. If he didn't get it, he went to a grey dealer who could offer a discount at quite an attractive price. This is not the way for Rolex to protect their brand image. Rolex have reduced supply and this has long filtered through and the discounts on the more in demand items are now a thing of the past. If you buy these watches from an AD (assuming you can get one) you will pay the RRP or if you want it today, you can buy it from a grey dealer but expect to pay a premium. It is your choice.

    Therefore ADs can sell to grey dealers at the RRP and be done with it. In time the prices will increase and supply will be very slowly increased where the customer is prepared to pay a higher RRP for the watch they want and no more discounts.

    This is good news for Rolex who will have enhanced the brand, good news for the ADs and good news for those who already have a watch as their investment is now protected.

    There is no need to get all worked up about it because if you find this disagreeable, you can chose always another brand.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    +1, there's no point deluding yourself about forming a 'relationship'.

    I`ve no urge to own these 'desirable' models, they simply don`t appeal to me, but I do think the supply situation is absurd. Grovelling for the privilege of being allowed to pay several thousand pounds for a watch is crazy in the real world.

    My advice to those who crave these models is to simply accept you're not going to own one, move on and stop the wanting, have the self-discipline not to become part of the madness. If these models were freely available much of the demand would evaporate.

    It's only another watch at the end of the day.
    It is good to see you back. We need more like you.

  31. #31
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    I had a great relationship with an AD and must have bought 10 watches from them (Rolex, Omega, Breitling etc). Then the guy I dealt with left and his replacement didn't want to entertain the existing relationship so I stopped using them.

  32. #32
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    It’s a great point you make, but I wouldn’t pay over list for any watch.

  33. #33
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    Started a thread a while back, and having a relatively new interest in watches it hasn’t taken me long to be disillusioned with the situation.

    There is not a chance in hell that I am going to be going cap in hand begging to be ripped off just for a chance to go on a list.

    With social media the way it is, no fashion lasts long at the minute. In 5 years time, all the youth might be wearing their Kendall Jenner watch and hopefully us plebs might be able to go back to getting a decent discount and service from what are essentially chain shops.


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  34. #34
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    It is amazing to come back to this thread only to realize that the gray market dealers are actually doing you a favour since they remove the gymnastics required to deal with an AD. Or perhaps the whole "building reputation" bit it is a cargo cult strengthened by few forum cultists who managed to annoy the watch dealer into giving them a watch by repeatedly visiting the store.

    Here is a video of a poor forum punter trying to impress Rolex Sales Representatives into bringing the stainless sub out of the safe:
    https://youtu.be/nWfyw51DQfU?t=104

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I think we need to keep this in proportion.

    If you go back say 2 years, some chancer would casually walk into an AD and demand a hefty discount. If he didn't get it, he went to a grey dealer who could offer a discount at quite an attractive price. This is not the way for Rolex to protect their brand image. Rolex have reduced supply and this has long filtered through and the discounts on the more in demand items are now a thing of the past. If you buy these watches from an AD (assuming you can get one) you will pay the RRP or if you want it today, you can buy it from a grey dealer but expect to pay a premium. It is your choice.

    Therefore ADs can sell to grey dealers at the RRP and be done with it. In time the prices will increase and supply will be very slowly increased where the customer is prepared to pay a higher RRP for the watch they want and no more discounts.

    This is good news for Rolex who will have enhanced the brand, good news for the ADs and good news for those who already have a watch as their investment is now protected.

    There is no need to get all worked up about it because if you find this disagreeable, you can chose always another brand.
    I'm not worked up in the slightest :) I see building a history with an AD as a decades long exercise that I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to embark on, just wondered if there were any arguments for doing it

  36. #36
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    Its just not worth it.
    You'll have to spend x amount on fluff to maybe possibly get on a "list" to get what you really want.
    Better to go market rate and stick the x amount into getting what you want when you want.

  37. #37
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    I wonder what an ADs attitude would be if you offered a trade on a new desirable rolex for your pre-owned desirable rolex.

    Effectively they would get the profit from two sales one at list and the other at whatever they mark yours up above list, they win and you get the watch sooner as you are now on the “proper list”.

    Of course only any good if you have a desirable one that you are happy to let go of.

    I might pop into my AD and see what they say next time I’m out wearing my Hulk.




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  38. #38
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    I suppose it depends on how you define "relationship" but if it means buying watches and jewellery you don't want, then no. I do enjoy the various sport models but things have become absurd via ADs and so why not try and find one via a private sale. It just takes time and some patience and hopefully won't be quite as much as a grey dealer. I have mentioned this before, and it must be the exception, but a charming AD near my parents offered to get me a Hulk within 6-8 months after chatting for about 15-20mins. I wasn't in a position to go ahead due to finances and the fact that I no longer live in England but I was very pleasantly surprised. So, it can happen it would seem.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollipekka View Post
    No, unless you spend big.

    Nobody is going to remember your 2k poverty-grade Tudor purchase from a year ago. However, if you are able to spend money on a tt datejust and then can ask another sports watch on top of that, then probably yes you'll have that Daytona sooner than later.
    Don't think so. Bought TT Datejust, Explorer 2 and TT Lady Datejust all from the same AD in a space of about 18 months and have been waiting for a Pepsi since they were released. Daytona? I don't think so! TBH I'd just go grey if you really wanted it.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Don't think so. Bought TT Datejust, Explorer 2 and TT Lady Datejust all from the same AD in a space of about 18 months and have been waiting for a Pepsi since they were released. Daytona? I don't think so! TBH I'd just go grey if you really wanted it.
    ^^^^ This, personally I'm not that desperate for any watch but if you must have one then stump up for it and to hell with what others think, you'll then be able to hold your head high amongst all the others worshiping at that altar.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  41. #41
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    Worth remembering that purchase at retail of the key sports models is effectively being given a free watch. Indeed, a free watch and then they pay you extra as a reward for owning it in the first place.
    And you wonder why there’s unrelenting demand.......
    ..

  42. #42
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    As others have observed, it is liberating to recognise that one is never going to have the clout to land a particular coveted Rolex, as [1] you stop worrying whether it's been too long since you last dropped in to your local AD to remind them of your continued existence, ongoing interest etc, and reassure yourself that you are on a mythical List, and [2] you open your eyes to what else is, unproblematically, out there. I have long fetishised a Daytona, but came to realise it wouldn't happen, started to think of other chronos, and then saw a Zenith CP-2 on SC which made my eyes pop. It cost far less, I had it next day, I absolutely love it, it's gotten me into Zenith as a maker and its history (and it hasn't got PCLs) ...

    So I can only add to the chorus of: cultivating an AD isn't worth the effort, it is inimical to one's self-respect, and distorts one's wider appreciation of the horological field.

  43. #43
    Don’t bother. Just buy from a grey if you really need a Rolex. But like others have said spending more than RRP is just nuts, so many lust after these watches because they can’t get one.

    Look at Chrono24 currently 820+ BLNR’s for sale, with 417 less than a year old! People just buy them to flip. And people are stupid enough to pay grey prices to have one

  44. #44
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    Move on to other brands, is my advice. Or get into 4/5 digit older stuff

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Don't think so. Bought TT Datejust, Explorer 2 and TT Lady Datejust all from the same AD in a space of about 18 months and have been waiting for a Pepsi since they were released. Daytona? I don't think so! TBH I'd just go grey if you really wanted it.
    I looked at 3 Daytona’s yesterday,no one was interested so I deleted my post.
    in fact I looked at a lot of different Rolex except sub and sea.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    I looked at 3 Daytona’s yesterday,no one was interested so I deleted my post.
    in fact I looked at a lot of different Rolex except sub and sea.
    I dont understand your post.
    They weren’t interested in selling you one?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loupe View Post
    I dont understand your post.
    They weren’t interested in selling you one?
    He looked at watches that were for sale, didn't buy any of them and posted pictures of some of them here.

  48. #48
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Plymouth, Devon
    Posts
    268
    Passed through Heathrow Terminal 2 a few weeks ago and sat in the window of the AD was a 114060 sub. I enquired and was informed it had been there 15 minutes. I produced my boarding pass (turkey) and left before the misses had finished in boots with said watch minus VAT. I know this is not the norm but miracles can happen.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  49. #49
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Sunny Scotland
    Posts
    1,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    He looked at watches that were for sale, didn't buy any of them and posted pictures of some of them here.
    Ah ok, Thanks I missed that post.

  50. #50
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Matlock, Derbyshire
    Posts
    1,198
    Quote Originally Posted by deepdivedaz View Post
    Passed through Heathrow Terminal 2 a few weeks ago and sat in the window of the AD was a 114060 sub. I enquired and was informed it had been there 15 minutes. I produced my boarding pass (turkey) and left before the misses had finished in boots with said watch minus VAT. I know this is not the norm but miracles can happen.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Lucky pick up. Naturally you declared it on the way back and paid the required level of duty etc


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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