I didn’t want to create more Rolex watches in a window posts but was aware to some of you it means a lot so I did,no one here was interested so I deleted my post.Originally Posted by Loupe
I handled about £200,000 of watches yesterday,I phoned back about one today a old Omega but it’s still being serviced.
I went into the AD at T5 not long ago and was told there was a list for "preferred customers"... At an airport!
Needless to say i sulked off, went into WoS and tried on an Omega. The SA who served me was memorised by the BLNR and I nearly (very nearly) walked out with a Speedmaster... Wasn't to be though. Great staff in there. Very helpful!
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With an independent local AD I think one's chances are better but I see you're in Glasgow, where both ADs are part of chains. I know Laings SS Rolex models are allocated centrally according to customer history & spend (that's what they told me when I put my name down on a list 6 months ago), and I expect WoS are similar. That said, its at least got to be worth walking in, explaining your position and having a shot - being local will help. Don't even bother doing it by phone though - that'll get you nowhere. I also don't believe in buying other watches or jewellery to move up the list - unless you want that stuff of course - otherwise it makes more sense to use the extra cash to buy straight away from a flipper.
Good luck - miracles do sometimes happen!
I have managed to buy a SubC and a Polar Explorer II from UK ADs this year with little history (bought a 16710 in 2001). It can happen-I have also seen a Deep Sea in the window so they are sometimes around. I guess it depends what you are really after, but I think a Sub is a good place to start and is a fantastic watch to own.
Good luck.
For me, this.
Needing to be respectful to each other - whether buyer to dealer, or dealer to buyer - I'll always buy into, but buying things I don't need / want in order to be allowed access to things that I do, I'll never follow. It sends all the wrong signals to Rolex of what watches people actually want to buy, but most of all it's totally wasteful. Of money, of resources to make the things that are not actually wanted, of time, to flip the things forced to buy but will never wear.
Having to buy a couple of smaller houses to have the chance to get the one you want? Buy two A-class to get an S-class? What kind of industry are they heading for?
Each to his/her own, but what appears illogical to me about this oft-used phrase is that folk refuse to pay x% over retail from a grey dealer, yet would be happy to do so at an AD if Rolex increased their prices by the same %age tomorrow.
Its only Rolex's brand-strengthening strategy that is keeping their RRP lower than actual market values.
Funny you should mention that I was in Laings last week actually. The guy said they've very recently abandoned lists for Rolex watches. When they get stock each branch selects a handful of 'preferred' customers and they all go into the hat and one gets picked out. Not sure if that's better or worse than a list tbh??
The end result of the conversation was to express a note of interest and hope a miracle happens
Yes that more-or-less ties with what their Edinburgh shop told me - its not a chronological list but based on history/spend/potential ("preferred" as you were told). I bought a GMT from them in 2001 but don't think it counted as it predated their computer records. Never heard from them since
Last edited by Halitosis; 17th July 2019 at 18:19.
I doubt buying a DJ and another SS model will get you very far up the (probably non-existent anyway) list.
I'm a better customer than that at my AD since before Rolex watches were bought as investments and I don't get the impression I am anywhere near any of the current "must have" pieces.
I was in Laings in Edinburgh recently, slowed pace as I passed a display with Rolex models, up pops assistant, “can I help you Sir” he said, I asked “are any of those available for sale to me?” , “ eh probably not Sir” he replied, “just as well I’m in to pick up a Panerai” and strolled off, why have watches on display when they have awaiting list, supply the things and collect the money, I can just imagine my last bosses reaction if I refused to supply a car we had in stock because it was a new customer. Son in law loves his watch btw, never considered Rolex.
But that says it all. There are plenty of examples of having to get in line for consumables. Cars, watches, handbags etc. If you do not like the rules, then you need not be in the game. You chose a PAM. A worthy choice, but not special or particularly interesting.
That depends on which PAM and how you view the Brand. Some are special and most are at least moderately interesting
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I didn’t choose the PAM, my son in law did, but the point was the salesman was asking if I wanted help to look at watches that were not available, why waste time and energy.?
So I shouldnt wonder over to your desk tomorrow with the SD43? ;)
personally with the money going one way im not interested in building a 'rapport' with any shop like some sort of grovelling toad , if said shop doesn't want my money another one will.
What, Daytona's at list?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
The OP was vintage stuff.
On balance I would say not, based on recent experience.
If your first Rolex is to be a DJ/ OP or even an explorer or milgauss, you will probably get what you are after by walking into any Rolex AD, possibly with a bit of a wait. This is what it was like just a few years ago for almost any Rolex. You don't particularly need a previous "reputation".
On the other hand, if you want one if the "hot" models, it's pointless trying to build up a relationship unless you are prepared to splash serious cash with them. Sadly, that seems to be the case currently. There may be some exceptions with some ad's but the larger chains seem to choose who they sell to and it's basically the ones prepared to spend the most at their beck and call.
I know a few people that fall in to that category who have bought gold daytonas or similar and been offered (and bought) gmt's, sky dwellers, hulks etc on a regular basis. Some are kept, some are flipped. The rationale seems to be I'll buy it and see if I like it. If I don't I'll flip it for a profit. Lack of warranty card doesn't seem to be an issue. Dealers are happy to buy at a premium to rrp. Customer maintains reputation of being a high spender, gets offered more on a regular basis. Ad is happy to have guaranteed sales of 7k to £30k a pop by making a quick phone call, greys pick up the ones not wanted and sell at a further profit and so it goes on.
Personally, I wanted a pepsi GMT and have been on the list since launch, but don't expect a call from my AD, despite having a reasonable purchase history including a £7k DJ41 last year. I didnt get it in the hope of getting the GMT, just decided I liked it! I won't buy grey at c 2x rrp, so I guess I'll just stay on the list (if it exists) and may get a call if the bottom falls out of the Rolex market and my custom suddenly becomes more valuable to them.
All quite distasteful really!
That said, there are some good ads out there who genuinely like watches and providing good service. If you want to find one, try the family run independents and no harm in building a relationship with them. If you steer clear of the Rolex game, you will probably get treated well and might get some decent deals if a regular buyer....
But buying a high demand rolex from an ad currently is a different and altogether less pleasant experience!
Actually if you read his posts in this thread he mentions 2 new and one vintage Daytona’s.
Hence me asking if they were at rrp. If not it’s just another Daytona at inflated prices and nothing out of the ordinary.
At rrp they would have been snapped up.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I’m in a similar position and it really depends.
1. Which model(s) are you after? If it’s a DJ41/Explorer/Air King/Black Sub/Milgauss then based on what other people in this forum are saying you can buy these without any previous purchase history, just with some persistence and luck.
2. How many watches do you intend to buy over the medium/long-term? If you’re happy with 1 or 2 ‘sought after’ watches then it might be better to just pay the premium and go grey (or SC).
The only way I’ll (personally) be able to justify building a relationship with the AD is if:
1. Your purchases towards ‘building the relationship’ are purchases that you genuinely want.
2. You have a local AD near you with staff members that you like and will take care of you. (The number of ADs nowadays that only cares about how much you’ve purchased from them is way too many.)
3. You intend to buy quite a few watches over the long-term (say 10 years).
4. You are not in any hurry to build up your collection/not in a hurry for a specific watch.
One thing to remember, there’s no guarantee with building a relationship when or if you’ll get the watch you want.
I have always felt the concept of having to build a relationship with a Rolex AD as a silly game that frankly I don’t have the time to play. I also don’t want a collection of just Rolex. If Rolex is all you want then you have to suck it up and pay premium. There are many great watches out there other than Rolex that you can buy at a decent discount from the grey market. Use the savings there to fund your premium grey Rolex purchases. You can build a relationship with a good grey market dealer and get what you want on commercial terms and none of the added silliness. You can then spend the endless hours you would have spent pretending to be the Rolex ADs best mate with those that you actually really like.
I totally agree Celia but there are many here who “refuse to pay over RRP!” whatever the current market value may be.
I’ve not bought any of mine from an AD but I am thinking of getting an Explorer. I’ll walk in, ask if they have one or can get one and either buy it or not. No sweat, no hassle, if the answer’s no then I’ll just do without. £5k for a watch is mad enough anyway!
How about building a relationship with a grey dealer? Might be a better idea than you think.
Sorry, but neither is a mass produced stainless steel Rolex.
M
It's pointless. I'm on a fictional list for a DSSD Deep Blue; but I am fully aware they just took my details to be polite. When I'm in a position to buy it'll be from SC or grey.
I'm the one with 10k and I'm not demeaning myself - I'll get it on my terms, not theirs.
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In a way, they've won because you want their watch.
If there wasn't this situation doubt they'd be so desirable.
Sucking ass for trinkets eh?
I'd rather wave a wad and let those that have something I want run after me - now, where's me wad.
Gray
Without going into details, this works.
Friend of mine acquired a Sub & Pepsi within 2months, from a dead start.
They may be massed produced but they are of exceptional quality, reliability, accuracy and if regularly serviced, will outlast you.
This is why buyers are fighting each other to get them and now have to deal with unscrupulous grey dealers to ensure they can obtain the in demand models, albeit at an inflated price.
No one can buck the market.
Sounds wise, but it’s actually a tautology...’’what happens, happens.’’ Can’t ever be wrong! But I have a strong feeling that the whole luxury watch market is about to be hit big time.
People have already forgotten what happened in 2008, and how long it took for the market to climb back up. They think it’s a free ride for ever.
My thoughts on this pandering malarkey exactly.
So, to 'build up a relationship' with your local AD really means buying stuff and if you want a Rolex, you need to be buying Rolex stuff to get that 'relationship'. You then need to buy 3/4 pieces (I reckon) of something that nobody really wants (which is why they are available at the AD in the first place) at say £4/£5k a throw? You might also deal with a different person for each purchase and (being retail) there's a very good chance that they will leave over the time that you are 'building the relationship' so you just end up as a name on previous invoices. All this time and ~£20k to have the slight possibility of getting onto a "list" for the 'chance' to get your wrist into a £6-£8k Sub or GMT Master (which are both absolutely everywhere in the wild when you look around).
The whole thing is ludicrous and yet people still ask whether they should/think about it/do it.
As someone who works in "grey" I find comments like this a bit irritating. This isn't a personal response to you, as its something that's often said.
People are quite happy to use grey when they're able to get brands like richemonts offerings, omega, hublot etc when they're 25-30% off but any talk of Rolex and grey dealers are public enemy number 1.
Theres a really slim margin on modern Rolex. We have to pay equally silly money to get hold of them in order to sell on to customers. Double retail plus in some cases. The market is absolutely bonkers at the minute.
The only plus side to it is that in the current climate you can pay grey prices, wear for a year, and sell back to grey without much loss if any.
In the meantime it looks like its not just customers having to spend a fortune to secure the professional models.
https://www.watchpro.com/corders-col...A+-+2019-07-18
I want their watch because I have fussy taste and I particularly like the design and the engineering; it just happens to be a Rolex. On that basis they have obviously won. It is what it is....
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I wonder, once the Instagramer's and profiteers have left the scene, how many disgruntled WIS Rolex fans will have turned their backs on the brand? Maybe we don't represent enough for Rolex to be worried about. I've my name down for a Pepsi, Skydweller, CHNR, Batgirl all put down on day one of their respective announcements and never heard a bean even though i try and show my face at the AD as often as i can. Getting fed up tbh and feel like giving up on the whole lot. Got to the point where i know its not available so i don't even feel like i lust after any of these anymore, so when they do become available (if) i'm not sure i'll still want any of them.
Anyone else feel the same?
Nope it's just a another 'must have' trinket, for some (though not all) it's a way of buying a status they otherwise wouldn't have.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Probably in the minority.
I enjoy building relationships with the bartenders in my local pub. Last evening, instead of my usual pint, I ordered a bottled ale. The bartender served it with a smile and allowed me to consume the contents without her keeping the label.
Last edited by Recht; 18th July 2019 at 11:56.
A Rolex is merely a middle class type of thing, good product at an above average price but a status symbol it is not. If you want a status symbol buy a massive house in an expensive area with a Bentley on the drive. Even a top end Rolex won't buy you a Porsche let alone a Bentley.
Rolex don't give a monkeys tbh, whether you're a 'wis' or joe bloggs, they're playing globally with a product heavily dependent upon carefully crafted and maintained perceptions and image and all participating in this game does is increase the strength of their brand/desirability/drive prices, whilst wasting your time/energy.
It's a win/win for them, but then IF you really, really must still have the watch despite all the nonsense and caveats, as someone else observed it is what it is.
Really?
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Yes really !Really?
Wait till the bubble bursts and then walk in to a dealer and see what they say. In the meantime enjoy being more adventurous and buy something else. Paying over list just feeds the frenzy. There's more to watches than Rolex (yes I have one I bought tax free and with a discount years ago) so look around a find what else you like as well.
See my post 42 - yes.
Personally if i have to buy a couple of DJ's to even be considered for one of the sports models that was really after then I'll go grey as it probably works out cheaper, unless i actually wanted the DJ's and didn't mind the wait.
I rather like GMT watches and of course the GMTMII is the BMW 5 series of this genre but it's not any kind of grail for me so I'm saving for a different example of the genre as there are so many other, far more interesting, examples form other manufacturers out there. For example the Chronomat b04, UN dual time, GS GMT's etc.
Yeh these guys need to jump through hoops and will eventually lead to all the indy's losing the franchise as they won't have the cash for it.
A real shame.
YEAH! Like Patek Philippe...................oh bugger! :)
My Bentley is currently worth about the same as a Hulk !
Like some others I refuse to pay over retail prices. I bought my Sports Rolex's between 1993 and 2014. Paid less then retail for them all (mainly used, but including two GMT new with a discount ! ).
My biggest regret was looking at a Hulk in T5 Duty Free, and deciding not to buy it on impulse ! I had a plane to catch and didnt want to delay it. Spoke to them next day and it had lasted 4 hours..... (£4500) Aghh
My more recent purchases have been JLC and Bremont, prices drop nicely when secondhand, as Rolex used to, before possibly increasing again, i'm a collector who appreciates them rather than "an investor" so its a secondary consideration.
There are other fine watches out there, I am looking at getting a Tudor Next, i like the idea of the lightness of Titanium and feel its good value.
I for one put my name down on a list when the SD43mm was announced at Basel spring 2017.
I made it clear all along I could complete the transaction within a day, wouldn't haggle, or try to part exchange … and had no bother with the warranty withheld.
I had a single purchase history of £4200 after a 12% discount, and that salesman had since moved on.
The watch was purchased in June 2018, and the warranty card released last month.
I was just pleasant, patient and adamant I wanted a 50th Sea Dweller in my 50th year - not a Sub, GMT or any other Rolex I could get my hands on to flip at a profit.
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