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Thread: Another trip to the AD. Another surprise at the state of the onion.

  1. #1
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    Another trip to the AD. Another surprise at the state of the onion.

    Yes, it's another one of those posts! I've posted about this previously, but as I only get to my not-very-local AD every 6-12 months (on trips to my accountant) I was unaware that things were now this bad. Or is it just this AD? This is not intended as a rant. I'm now at the acceptance stage of the process.

    I was dropping my company accounts off with the aforementioned beancounters and thought that I'd pop by the AD as they're only a couple of minutes walk away. I knew I was in trouble when I looked at their display in the window. Every single watch in the Rolex section was a Datejust. Not some of them. Not most of them. Every single one was a Datejust. Inside there was no longer a Rolex section that I could find.

    I've been on this dealer's imaginary waiting list for some time now as I'm after a Sea Dweller (but would settle for a Sub date). Business has been good this year (and it's 20 year since I set up the company) so I though, you know what? I could probably stretch to a steel/gold one. That might make things easier. Shows what I know!

    Gold Sea Dweller? Across a hundred and umpteen stores the AD said they'd had only one and it went to their top spender in the country for the year. As for gold Subs? Probably three years or so if I wanted one with a date, although every now and then somebody on the list is unable to complete the purchase and they offer it down the line. £500 deposit on the phone, balance within 48 hours or you lose it. This branch reckoned they receive on average 1-2 precious metal subs every 6 months.

    Now the last time I was in the branch they had a few things on display, including a Yacht Master which I quite liked, but didn't love, and there was at least some variety/niche models on show. Is it now the case that the only thing available over the counter is the Datejust? It was only a few years ago that I went in there and they had a Deep Sea on the shelf. I tried it on, but it was a bit too big for me and I chose to forgo it and wait for an SD. Lesson well and truly learned!

    What also surprised me today was their assertion that they offer no discounts on any Rolex or Tudor watch, regardless of material (you used to be able to get a little something on the precious metal ones) and they now capped it for Omegas at 12%. I've spent a good amount of money with this dealer in the past, but clearly nowhere near enough.

    I did get to try on a LHD Tudor though, and as somebody who chooses to dress on the right I can honestly say that I'm not convinced. The crown dug into the back of my hand too much for my liking. Would be tempted if I wore on the left though.

    I'm also still trying and failing to find a grey Seamaster 300M that I can try as that may do instead, but I'd want to see it before I bought it and my Omega dealer hasn't had one in yet and will only order it in specially if I pay.

    Apart from striking it lucky with my mate who goes through Schiphol Airport every week and checks the stores there for me, I'm out of ideas now.

  2. #2
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    Looks like buying a new Rolex is hard work.

  3. #3
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    You are too far off the game to be in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    You are too far off the game to be in it.
    Welcome to the story of my life!

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    Just keep in touch with an AD (bi-monthly), get to know the staff, periodically gently remind them of your interest but, when they offer, you need to buy. What is so hard?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunaxi View Post

    Apart from striking it lucky with my mate who goes through Schiphol Airport every week and checks the stores there for me, I'm out of ideas now.
    Start phoning dealers around Europe. There are lots of watches about, the gold sea-dweller is not at all popular so far and plenty of stock around. If youre willing to catch a flight you'll find something. If what your AD tells you about allocation is true, it sounds like they wont be carrying Rolex for much longer imo.

  7. #7
    I'm fairly sure that if you can get your name on a list and pay a deposit, then the watch will turn up a lot quicker than estimated, in almost every case.
    It's just a matter of time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I'm fairly sure that if you can get your name on a list and pay a deposit, then the watch will turn up a lot quicker than estimated, in almost every case.
    Indeed, money where mouth would otherwise be, helps too!

  9. #9
    Grand Master TaketheCannoli's Avatar
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    I read this week (I forget where) that sports Rolex are fairly easy picking across European ADs and it’s only the UK where supply is an issue. Blame Brexit. They all hate us now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    I read this week (I forget where) that sports Rolex are fairly easy picking across European ADs and it’s only the UK where supply is an issue. Blame Brexit. They all hate us now.
    For my part, France is the same story as the U.K. Pas de Rolex sportifs.

  11. #11
    Hate saying it but if you want it badly enough, go grey.
    A lot of Sports Rolex are in short supply everywhere.
    There is no magic other than -Keep trying and hope to be in the right place at the right time.
    Or consider other brands.

  12. #12
    Master Halitosis's Avatar
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    ^^^ I think list prices are higher across Europe though, and after conversion, UK RRP is a few hundred pounds lower in just about every model. Not a huge consideration I appreciate, but enough that travelling businessfolk, grey dealers and flippers will jump at any model of moderate scarcity.

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    Its a similar story worldwide I'm afraid..

    Try another AD, I found some good, some not so good..

    From recent discussions with a few ADs the TT Sea Dweller should be achievable in a shorter timeframe compared to other sport Rolex models.. Goodluck with your search.

  14. #14
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    My locL AD is not much better Rolex wise but they always have OPs and Day Dates in. And fairly regularly have the TT subs or GMTs in the window.
    I’m really surprised at the Grey Omega 300m comment they are in the windows almost all the time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    I read this week (I forget where) that sports Rolex are fairly easy picking across European ADs and it’s only the UK where supply is an issue. Blame Brexit. They all hate us now.
    Thats not true
    Situation is the same all over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Thats not true
    Situation is the same all over.
    Indeed.

  17. #17
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    Surely these ADs must be getting fed up of turning potential customers and their money away.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I'm fairly sure that if you can get your name on a list and pay a deposit, then the watch will turn up a lot quicker than estimated, in almost every case.
    I've offered to pay a deposit and the dealer says no. Given this and how they've twice taken my details for this mystical list of theirs I'm not entirely sure of its existence and I've been on it over a year.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 744ER View Post
    Start phoning dealers around Europe. There are lots of watches about, the gold sea-dweller is not at all popular so far and plenty of stock around. If youre willing to catch a flight you'll find something. If what your AD tells you about allocation is true, it sounds like they wont be carrying Rolex for much longer imo.
    The plan would be to swap the bracelet out with something I'd be happier wearing (damaging) every day and keep the original in the safe for a rainy day.

    I have to say I was staggered at the lack of stock the AD had. I've never seen it this bad before. Either they're selling everything they get or are getting absolutely nothing. Although if I wanted a Datejust they had me covered.

    Saying that I've worked with people who just wanted a Rolex to say they had one and so possibly this caters to that market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Hate saying it but if you want it badly enough, go grey.
    A lot of Sports Rolex are in short supply everywhere.
    There is no magic other than -Keep trying and hope to be in the right place at the right time.
    Or consider other brands.
    There's a part of me that thinks if I go grey I'll only be encouraging the scalpers. For now, I'll just wait. The difference in price would add nicely to my collection of basses and I really need a fretless 6 string, because deep down inside I'm broken.

    I want to like the Tudors but that hour hand. Can't do it. The grey Seamaster is looking promising though, if I can find one.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Just keep in touch with an AD (bi-monthly), get to know the staff, periodically gently remind them of your interest but, when they offer, you need to buy. What is so hard?
    It’s not that it’s hard, it’s that you have to do it at all.

    I’ve never understood why the customer has to pander to the retailer, it really is topsy turvy watch world we are living in.

    I suppose due to the lack of supply and everyone figuratively selling their grannie to get hold of anything it gives the retailer the upper hand and they seem to be enjoying “getting one over” the flash so and so with the Rolex money.

    I’m so glad I no longer hanker after one, it just seems so much effort for a F-king watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    It’s not that it’s hard, it’s that you have to do it at all.

    I’ve never understood why the customer has to pander to the retailer, it really is topsy turvy watch world we are living in.

    I suppose due to the lack of supply and everyone figuratively selling their grannie to get hold of anything it gives the retailer the upper hand and they seem to be enjoying “getting one over” the flash so and so with the Rolex money.

    I’m so glad I no longer hanker after one, it just seems so much effort for a F-king watch.
    Funny, but I just choose to go with the flow, and every now and then a nice collectible turns up. No drama, no one-upmanship from the AD. Perhaps you are going about this the wrong way.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Funny, but I just choose to go with the flow, and every now and then a nice collectible turns up. No drama, no one-upmanship from the AD. Perhaps you are going about this the wrong way.
    Er? Read my comment again.

    Choosing not to buy Rolex (had plenty) and choosing not to play the AD game isn’t “going about this the wrong way” it’s about turning my back on the whole theatrical farce and going to the opera instead.

  24. #24
    I travel a fair bit for work (at present weekly) and Europe is no better. Amsterdam airport was bare both times I passed through. The ADs in the cities I’ve been too have all been bare.

    Having said that, a TT skydweller should be fairly achievable in the U.K. If you ring round for that I reckon you’d get one fairly quickly. I could check with my AD if you like? They seem more friendly than yours!

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    Don’t let the wife anywhere near it! If she is anything like mine, it will be raked across all manor of surfaces without a care in the world and in no time at all will resemble something that has been put through a blender.

  26. #26
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    I treated myself to a Spyderco folding knife in S30V steel.

    Turned out the snapped off tip was due to her using it as a screwdriver to remove a cupboard door.

  27. #27
    I'll need to take a look at the TT SD, but I had decided that my next TT watch would be a blue Sub.
    It's just a matter of time...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I'll need to take a look at the TT SD, but I had decided that my next TT watch would be a blue Sub.
    I'm going through a similar though vintage phase, a 16803 black dial is becoming an unhealthy itch.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  29. #29
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    I remember my thread from 2016- I got a hulk and a deep sea blue at Amsterdam airport - there was 3 hulks in stock that day as well as subs etc


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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by andybaird22 View Post
    I remember my thread from 2016- I got a hulk and a deep sea blue at Amsterdam airport - there was 3 hulks in stock that day as well as subs etc


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    My local AD couldn't sell the Blue/Black GMT II's and offered me a huge discount on a WG Pepsi - ah the good ole days :)
    It's just a matter of time...

  31. #31
    I’m certain this farce will change. After 30 years buying and selling Rolex watches it’s all very cyclical. Shame it also feels cynical.


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  32. #32
    Have travelled to all corners of the World every month for a while now for work. The story is the same everywhere. No one has any stock. Many Rolex Boutiques have many display cabinets capable of holding over a hundred watches in each but with only 4 or 5 actual watches in each. Even steel Datejusts are not available in some places.

    You could be mistaken for thinking that Rolex stopped making watches but forgot to tell their dealers. It looks just like arriving late to a closing down sale.

    I have tried to work out whether the problem is high demand or low production. All the signs are low production.

    Either Rolex have a serious problem or it is deliberate. The later seems strange as it would be a strategy that causes self harm. Lots of people frustrated with Rolex and moving to other brands and being happy with them. As if to deliberately increase the frustration Rolex continue to put great effort into advertising watches that cannot be bought anywhere.

    All very mysterious and a gift to the other watch companies, flippers and grey dealers.
    Last edited by petespendthrift; 16th July 2019 at 20:13.

  33. #33
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    I am getting tired of being laughed at by AD’s when I ask what the waiting time for a DSSD blue is. I know it is what it is etc but it’s a bloody joke. Crazy way to run a business.......


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  34. #34
    I remember visiting a Rolex AD in India in 2014 I think and the displays were full. All sports models and at RRP, minus discount (eg 13% off an Explorer). Plus it was the first time I saw a steel Daytona on display.

    The last visit a couple of years ago was the complete opposite - a few Datejusts.

  35. #35
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    Soon the Datejust will be the hot ticket Rolex as buyers can't get anything else & they'll be impossible to buy. Shortly after that OPs will be in demand & then there will be no Rolexes left...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I'll need to take a look at the TT SD, but I had decided that my next TT watch would be a blue Sub.
    I was in Pragnells today to ask about a Hulk (and got the answer i expected, albeit very politely). Chatted about other options one being a TT smurf, that would be readily obtainable in an estimated 3 to 4 months.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    I was in Pragnells today to ask about a Hulk (and got the answer i expected, albeit very politely). Chatted about other options one being a TT smurf, that would be readily obtainable in an estimated 3 to 4 months.
    Pragnells are great! Sam was really helpful when he worked in Stratford Upon Avon. I got my Hulk off him there just before he moved to London

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by petespendthrift View Post
    I have tried to work out whether the problem is high demand or low production. All the signs are low production.

    Either Rolex have a serious problem or it is deliberate. The later seems strange as it would be a strategy that causes self harm. Lots of people frustrated with Rolex and moving to other brands and being happy with them. As if to deliberately increase the frustration Rolex continue to put great effort into advertising watches that cannot be bought anywhere.

    All very mysterious and a gift to the other watch companies, flippers and grey dealers.
    Indeed, this does all seem very bizarre. Exclusivity is one thing but this is surely counter-productive.

    Incredibly unlikely though it sounds, maybe they do have some sort of problem. Why else would they go so far to redirect sales to grey dealers, thus harming ADs' margins?

  39. #39
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Another trip to the AD. Another surprise at the state of the onion.

    Quote Originally Posted by petespendthrift View Post

    I have tried to work out whether the problem is high demand or low production. All the signs are low production.
    Care to elaborate? I can’t find any evidence of reduced production but can of a huge increase in demand from the Chinese market.


    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Indeed, this does all seem very bizarre. Exclusivity is one thing but this is surely counter-productive.

    Incredibly unlikely though it sounds, maybe they do have some sort of problem. Why else would they go so far to redirect sales to grey dealers, thus harming ADs' margins?
    Assuming production isn’t the issue, how are Rolex redirecting sales to the grey dealers? Every watch that a grey dealer stocks has presumably been sold previously at retail through the AD network.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Care to elaborate? I can’t find any evidence of reduced production but can of a huge increase in demand from the Chinese market.




    Assuming production isn’t the issue, how are Rolex redirecting sales to the grey dealers? Every watch that a grey dealer stocks has presumably been sold previously at retail through the AD network.
    Precisely right. What Rolex havent done (yet) is reduce the completely failed Cellini production and divert it to other popular models, but maybe they will.

  41. #41
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    Sub no date

    I have been on the list of 3 AD's for well over 1.5 years. Where I live is covered by both Edinburgh and Newcastle, so 2 in Edinburgh , 1 in Newcastle.

    Slightly different was that I advised them that I would not have the funds until the middle of June this year. ALL OF THEM called me in April offering me the watch but sadly I did not have the funds.

    Now I have the pennies, there are none !

    Sods Law.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollipekka View Post
    Looks like buying a new Rolex is hard work.
    They’ve dropped the word “fun” from the whole buying experience sadly.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Care to elaborate? I can’t find any evidence of reduced production but can of a huge increase in demand from the Chinese market.




    Assuming production isn’t the issue, how are Rolex redirecting sales to the grey dealers? Every watch that a grey dealer stocks has presumably been sold previously at retail through the AD network.
    Agree 100%. Speculating/pontificating about Rolex business practices/production/strategies without any credible information or insight is a full time job for some Rolex gazers. Note I didn’t say buyers.

  44. #44
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Assuming production isn’t the issue, how are Rolex redirecting sales to the grey dealers? Every watch that a grey dealer stocks has presumably been sold previously at retail through the AD network.
    You'll note that I wrote "Incredibly unlikely though it sounds, maybe they do have some sort of problem. Why else would they go so far to redirect sales to grey dealers, thus harming ADs' margins?" (bold added here for emphasis). When an AD chooses to sell to a grey dealer (instead of to an end user who might then choose to resell to a grey dealer), they will usually sell at a lower price than they would have done to an end user. This harms the margins of ADs, although admittedly they are choosing to do it.

    However, I accept that if ADs sell to end users (who might or might not then resell to grey dealers) then their margins won't be harmed, especially in the current climate of limited supply. Nevertheless, ADs are still losing sales overall because there is more demand from customers than there are watches to supply them (although this is a different point to the one I was making before).


    Perhaps the very limited supply is an intentional strategy by Rolex to stamp out direct dealer sales to grey dealers. If ADs are swamped by end user customer demand (compared to what they have available to sell) then there will be no incentive for them to sell direct to grey dealers. They can better maintain their margins on what they do have to sell by selling what little they have direct to end user customers. Nevertheless, this is not stamping out the grey dealers! Instead, the greys can just buy from end user customers who choose to resell their watches into the grey market. The irony here is that the grey market is only as lucrative as it is precisely because of overly limited supply by Rolex. This means that legitimate ADs and wouldbe end user customers who want to keep their watches are only ones who suffer.

    I recognise also that the withholding of warranty cards by some ADs (and other idiotic and insulting measures) is a futile attempt by ADs to stamp out the customer-reseller route to grey dealers. However, this doesn't work either... if no warranty cards becomes the norm then the grey market and its customers will simply accept this.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    You'll note that I wrote "Incredibly unlikely though it sounds, maybe they do have some sort of problem. Why else would they go so far to redirect sales to grey dealers, thus harming ADs' margins?" (bold added here for emphasis). When an AD chooses to sell to a grey dealer (instead of to an end user who might then choose to resell to a grey dealer), they will usually sell at a lower price than they would have done to an end user. This harms the margins of ADs, although admittedly they are choosing to do it.

    However, I accept that if ADs sell to end users (who might or might not then resell to grey dealers) then their margins won't be harmed, especially in the current climate of limited supply. Nevertheless, ADs are still losing sales overall because there is more demand from customers than there are watches to supply them (although this is a different point to the one I was making before).


    Perhaps the very limited supply is an intentional strategy by Rolex to stamp out direct dealer sales to grey dealers. If ADs are swamped by end user customer demand (compared to what they have available to sell) then there will be no incentive for them to sell direct to grey dealers. They can better maintain their margins on what they do have to sell by selling what little they have direct to end user customers. Nevertheless, this is not stamping out the grey dealers! Instead, the greys can just buy from end user customers who choose to resell their watches into the grey market. The irony here is that the grey market is only as lucrative as it is precisely because of overly limited supply by Rolex. This means that legitimate ADs and wouldbe end user customers who want to keep their watches are only ones who suffer.

    I recognise also that the withholding of warranty cards by some ADs (and other idiotic and insulting measures) is a futile attempt by ADs to stamp out the customer-reseller route to grey dealers. However, this doesn't work either... if no warranty cards becomes the norm then the grey market and its customers will simply accept this.
    Forgive me if i'm misreading this but with this current Rolex situation, one would assume that an AD selling to a grey dealer would charge the grey dealer MORE than RRP, not less. Grey dealers used to exist to take watches off the AD's hands to save them from the fact that they couldn't shift watches and needed to do so in order to look after their bottom line - especially as the manufacturer was certain to send another batch of watches the following month that the AD doesn't necessarily want because they still hadn't sold last month's batch.

    Nowadays there is no situation like the above so the risk/reward for the AD swings the other way - make more margin from the watch by selling it grey, but risk getting caught by Rolex doing so.

    For all other brands outside of Rolex, AP RO and PP though, I guess the status quo continues.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Richy View Post
    I have been on the list of 3 AD's for well over 1.5 years. Where I live is covered by both Edinburgh and Newcastle, so 2 in Edinburgh , 1 in Newcastle.

    Slightly different was that I advised them that I would not have the funds until the middle of June this year. ALL OF THEM called me in April offering me the watch but sadly I did not have the funds.

    Now I have the pennies, there are none !

    Sods Law.
    You may no longer be on the agents list after saying you dont want the watch when they called!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richy View Post
    I have been on the list of 3 AD's for well over 1.5 years. Where I live is covered by both Edinburgh and Newcastle, so 2 in Edinburgh , 1 in Newcastle.

    Slightly different was that I advised them that I would not have the funds until the middle of June this year. ALL OF THEM called me in April offering me the watch but sadly I did not have the funds.

    Now I have the pennies, there are none !

    Sods Law.
    I never like to advocate borrowing but couldn’t you not have put it on an interest free credit card temporarily? It’s been 3 years now since getting a Rolex has been hard so not like it’s changed overnight. Out of interest what was the watch?

  48. #48
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    So as a Rolex AD why don't I sell watches to friends and family who then simply sell into the grey network, win win divy the dosh.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  49. #49
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    [


    Easy money ?




    QUOTE=number2;5152145]So as a Rolex AD why don't I sell watches to friends and family who then simply sell into the grey network, win win divy the dosh.[/QUOTE]

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Richy View Post
    I have been on the list of 3 AD's for well over 1.5 years. Where I live is covered by both Edinburgh and Newcastle, so 2 in Edinburgh , 1 in Newcastle.

    Slightly different was that I advised them that I would not have the funds until the middle of June this year. ALL OF THEM called me in April offering me the watch but sadly I did not have the funds.

    Now I have the pennies, there are none !

    Sods Law.
    Ouch....
    Credit card with a good limit (that can be transferred to a 0% card) is useful for this situation.

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