I love my 5817, but I'd probably go for the VC now due to the versatility of the interchangeable strap system.
I've gone through this exercise myself as I wanted to consolidate my collection a bit and have one superlative sports watch. One that I would buy BNIB from an AD. After going through the huge initial list and whittling them down a bit the final 5 I ended up with were Rolex SD43, GS Hi Beat Diver, Breguet 5817, VC Overseas 4500V and Blancpain 50 Fathoms 45mm. These were pretty clearly the top 5 once you omitted the unobtanium pieces like PP 5711, PP 5167 etc. AP Royal Oak didn't make the cut as I felt it wasn't on par with the others on close analysis but I appreciate it is a sought after piece.
From this 5 it was a clear decision to omit the Rolex (lovely watch just not as luxurious and well finished as the others although ironically probably worth more on resale than any of the others!) and the Grand Seiko (a clumsy clasp).
So from the final list what would be the way you go? I'll reveal the way I went and why later.
Final List
1. VC Overseas 4500V
2. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms 45mm
3. Breguet 5817
Last edited by ryanb741; 28th June 2019 at 18:50.
I love my 5817, but I'd probably go for the VC now due to the versatility of the interchangeable strap system.
For me its easy. Blancpain. Classic.
VC for me. The FF is just too oversized - mine lasted a few months for that same reason
VC for me with the Rolex second although it was whittled out. FF would be second if it was a Mil-Spec. Breguet wouldn't get a look in.
VC all the way.
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Tough choice. I have the FF and it’s great. The size doesn’t bother me.
Having said that I’ve been hankering after a VC myself. If you can, I’d save for both but if only one then the FF for me.
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Interesting cheers guys.
So I went with the FF. Classic looks, amazing handset and dial furniture and the curved sapphire bezel adds voluptousness and also amazing light play. The VC was lovely, bracelet is the best I've handled. Case finishing wasnt as nice as I would have expected (the Breguet case was far more complex) and the dial was lovely in blue but again didnt have the depth of the others. It helps that the BP is just a timeless design. And a 120 hour power reserve
So there you go!
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Last edited by ryanb741; 28th June 2019 at 19:14.
I find your description of the quality of the Rolex rather odd, still, that’s for you to decide. What you have missed is basic performance. The SD43 has a water resistance, and thus case integrity , in another class. For instance, FF,300 metres, SD43, 1200 metres. Same gap with all the others.
You could argue that no-one goes that deep, but that misses the point. The Rolex is a more seriously engineered product. It’s just tougher. And it also has the greatest guaranteed precision and the longest guarantee. And the most adjustable clasp.
And that’s why , i would suggest, it holds value best....
Last edited by paskinner; 28th June 2019 at 19:18.
I think I would've gone with the VC, but then I'm a sucker for anything with a tenuous link to genta bar his own brand.
The fathoms is an excellent watch, I just wish they'd do away with the Blancpain engraving on the side.
I was almost certain you would have gove for the VC based on your thread the other day. Ultimately the VC is a different target market to the Breguet or Blancpain being more sports than diver. Think I need to get my hands on a FF to have a look as they seem to be very well received on here.
The FF is the right choice for me but as said earlier, the script down the side is really off putting.
I would have still gone FF with those choices though.
The SD is an over sized Sub with a red bit of text now and anything by VC or PP are really not my cup of tea.
Enjoy what ever you do.
As an aside I pride myself on getting the best possible deal and wanted to highlight what the deals available were for reference should anyone else be in the market. When it comes to best deals I have stated the best 'no stress' deal. The absolute cheapest way to get these watches is via Polish grey dealers who obtain them from Russian ADs where prices are much lower (particularly on Breguet) and this is why you see the likes of Lider in Poland and Freser in the UK offering stupidly cheap watches on chrono24 (albeit theirs are usually pre owned) but not everyone fancies entrusting the value of a family car with unknown Russians and so my deals are based on UK offers.
1. VC Overseas 4500V. RRP £17500. Best offer £12,179.
2. BP Fifty Fathoms. RRP £11,160. What I paid, £7490.
3. Breguet 5817. RRP £12,200. Best offer £7,979
Good choice. Congrats
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Having seen the prices you quoted think it would be the FF for me too actually.
The VC is stunning - and with those interchangeable straps it might well be on my lotto-win dream list
Hhmmm... the 45 BP FF .... if only I were more manly. I'm holding out for the 42-43mm.
[Tried on a Mil Spec this week, but I found it looks too small on my 6.75" wrist, looks much smaller than the 16600.]
Blancpain
Given that they are all steel watches, the price is all down to the hand finishing. The Blancpain and Breguet may have black polished screw heads, chamfered screw slots, and mirror polish anglage but the beauty on these two watches is only skin deep. With the VC being Geneva Seal, you know that alot more work has gone into all the parts you cant see. It's worth the stretch in my eyes and I would be an owner now if I could get stock at around the price you were mentioning!
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To be a 'realistic' divers / sports watch wouldn't they need to be frequently seen worn by diver's?
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Ryan , those deals seem amazing . Please give some tips .
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By the way I concur on the FF , I have one and would seem in the minority in that I like the script on the side of the case .
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If your after a high quality 'realistic' Professional Diver's watch, a SLA025 is going to be hard to beat.
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You definitely have the wrists to pull off the 45mm FF. Good choice I think. Congrats!
My choice would have been the AP Royal Oak but as that didn’t make the cut I would choose the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms out of the final 3 listed.
It has the integrated look, but the strap is removable with the push of a clip. The VC comes with the bracelet, rubber and leather straps in the box so slightly justifies the fact that the RRP of the VC is a bit above the equivalent Royal Oak.
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And there you have the truth.....watches offered at up to a third off. Why do ŷou think that is?
The answer isn’t ‘marketing.’ I’d prefer to pay retail for an SD43 any day (actually, I paid above retail...but it will still prove, for me, a nicer watch and better buy.)
In a way it’s a shame, because such discounts corrode the reputation of manufacturers. It’s not viable long-term. The manufacturers who can defend their prices will be the ones who flourish. It could get brutal.
Last edited by paskinner; 29th June 2019 at 09:10.
With the exception of Rolex and Patek you can get this level of discount. I don't think it is a sign of quality, but rather of market demand. Rolex is much more in demand than the other brands. Doesn't make it a better watch. A Lange 1 can be obtained with a much higher discount percentage than a DJ41. I think everyone would agree that the Lange is the better watch. So the answer is marketing. Likewise you'd need your head testing if you had a Skydweller as a superior watch to the VC Overseas (at a similar price point). No chance. Not even close. The answer again is marketing and brand recognition.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My opinion was actually that the 3 I whittled the selection down to were a better watch (but that's just my opinion). It's all moot, I suppose on technicalities the 'best' divers watch (mechanical) would have been a Bell & Ross Hydromax at a tenth of the price or in the real world a Suunto. Each to their own but I think to state the retained value and price point of Rolex as a mark of superior quality is erroneous. The fact it is a status symbol and a sign of prestige to most non WIS would be the answer.
Wow, just shows you how different we all are as I wouldn't have even considered those 3 as an option under your heading. Glad you found the one YOU liked.
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Last edited by ryanb741; 29th June 2019 at 10:17.
It's not because they are of lesser value or quality if that's what you're implying and Rolex isn't immune to the practice either.
It's all about turnover.
Blancpain and breguet are part of the swatch group. Dealers are encouraged to turnover stock. For example sell x amount of speedmasters seamasters bread and butter watches and get a fathoms (for example) included in the package at significant discount because of the amount of group stock purchased.
The more stock you turnover the better deals you get on the bigger pieces which you can pass on to customers, or not.
And this erodes away your brand values ultimately.
The retailer is always looking for “support“ to achieve an objective, the manufacturer is trying to hit a forecast for the Board.
The customer shops around and encourages the race to the bottom, adding pressure on the retailer and the manufacturer, which in the long run means no residual value for the customer. Fine if you’re not interested in selling on anytime soon.
Very difficult and expensive to change that cycle into a more profitable model.
Maybe PP and Rolex are the only ones to manage it successfully(?)
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Highest quality doesn't mean anything re depreciation, residuals, value retention. Why is this even a point of discussion in this thread.
I love Rolex but flat out admit and know that the VC and FF are much better watches. Just not better value retainers. Surely as a bunch of silly clown WIS folk on a forum we are aware of this?
In all my time diving I have never seen anyone diving with a AP or Breguet.
I have never dived in my BPFF, but at least I know that "serious" divers did, including the Frech, German and, US navies.
My problem with all 3 watches identified (including the new Blancpains) is that they are "wannabe watches" for people who wannabe divers. Serious divers wear Rolex (like Comex divers), Seikos or wear Dive Computers.
If you want a quality "serious" divers watch then go for a Sub which is OK or a Sea-dweller which is perfect. Failing that then get a Seiko.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
A quick google search suggests that on most dive boats you’ll struggle to find anyone wearing a watch and, if you do, 99% of the time it will be a G-Shock Frogman. I also read recently that the majority of those issued with Comex watches didn’t trust their reliability and didn’t wear them but I can’t find that article now.