Reply With QuoteIf you've turned off your fob from actively transmitting then you are probably okay, just take the usual precautions to physically protect the key. Ironic that these systems that are supposed to make life easier end up adding a layer of complexity.
Hi, I just got a car which had the "keyless entry" system which has been exploited by thieves through relay attacks.
I have managed to disable keyless entry, so the unlock button on the fob has to be physically pressed to lock/unlock the car.
Do I still need to keep the car key in an RFID signal blocking pouch, or is this no longer required?
Thanks for any info.
If you've turned off your fob from actively transmitting then you are probably okay, just take the usual precautions to physically protect the key. Ironic that these systems that are supposed to make life easier end up adding a layer of complexity.
Depending on the car it's worth considering further security , I fitted a ghost immobiliser to my BMW for little piece of mind, works well
To be 100% sure, I'd keep the key in a foil lined container somewhere in the central part of the house.Originally Posted by Mr Curta
We have a metal key cabinet from IKEA to store keys.
Or/and get a visible lock on the steering wheel.
Keep key under your hat.
Despite its convenience, this is a technology we really don't need. I used an RFID pouch to keep the key to my Type R - I'm glad it's base model replacement doesn't have keyless entry. And it makes me shudder to see my neighbour's X5 protected with a disklock- it seems to be a real step backwards. The only cars I've seen disklocks on in recent years are classic MGBs and the like.
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Just to reiterate........ Steering lock is a must even though you have disabled the keyless setting.
Make sure the front door is double locked specially at night. These turds have been known to pop the upvc doors (happen to my bro inlaw).
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We use a faraday pouch for our keys they cost pennies on the Bay or Amazon and they work why take a risk for a couple of quid?
Last edited by mart broad; 28th June 2019 at 09:49.
If you make it hard for them and they really want it surly it’s better they take it from outside your house rather than coming in for the keys?
It’s a car it’s insured. I wouldn’t want the risk of being woken up for the keys or ambushed outside my house for a car.
If it is a very unique and targeted car that is possible - I would say it is more likely that if they can't pick up a signal and open the looks after a few minutes they will move onto the next house/car and try their luck their.
List me knives the make, model and manufacture date by PM - many later keys go to sleep unless in motion, and therefore are not vunrable to the relay trick even if keyless is left on.
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Newer models now have keys that go to sleep but older cars are still at risk. The worst thing is the manufacturers are just shrugging their shoulders claiming that there is nothing wrong with their cars as far as these types of relay attacks are concerned.
When I replaced my car 2 years ago I made sure it didn’t have this feature and when my son got his car last year I made sure it also didn’t have this. Who needs the additional headache for the sake of a quick fumble and button press.
If it helps I work directly for 1 car manufacturer, and my other half another - doing the same job roles managing new model development.
The companies we work for are both taking it very seriously and have new teams to deal with cyber security. It's always very hard to know how far updated parts can go back, as sometimes its almost impossible to retrofit.
There has already been growing issues amongst our managment of houses being broken into for keys whilst people are in to take keys to company cars. The thefts have not reduced since the new keys, the brake ins have increased though.
If your car is particularly valuable, I'd almost prefer an easy non invasive theft - cars are insured, emotions of family members can't be.
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Thanks all - I already have a Faraday pouch for the key and have ordered a disklok in medium. I have one in small, but it wont fit the steering wheel.
My last car (Subaru WRX STI) was protected by a disklok, tracker, AND a driveway bollard. The car didn’t get nicked as they couldn’t find the keys while we were out, so they simply scratched every panel on the car with their “tag”. Cost £2k for the respray.
I disabled the keyless entry on our Evoque as plenty were going missing near me.
My mates son had an Audi S5 and his friend, a copper, advised him to get a disclock for the steering wheel as thieves were targeting those cars in his area. He did that and three days later they took his car and the disclock! If they want it, they’ll take it.
I’ve heard of folk keeping keys in the microwave to prevent signals being picked, me, I just an older car that needs a physical key to start and hide it in my garage, not possible for all of course. Didn’t know it was possible to turn off the keyless function, had a few customers complain their central locking wasn’t working correctly, “ the boot doesn’t lock”, it unlocks when you go to check with the keys in your pocket ya idjit, of course not quite the explanation I offered.
We have three keyless cars, all of the keys are kept in a cheap safe at night, £12 on eBay, I tested it by putting a key for each car in it and tried to start them, all said key not present, so works.
We have all seen videos of cars being stolen which goes to prove that cameras don’t work other than to provide a nice film of your car being stolen, we have just installed a large rising post in between the peers at on the drive, making it pretty much impossible to remove a car when up, the thrives will probably go somewhere else.
I don't think my new car has keyless entry but, like my last car, it does have 'keyless start' if that's the correct terminology (there is no key lock in the car, just a button to press for starting the engine). I can't remember where I heard this but I was advised to keep keys in a metal container to prevent whatever tech it is that these toerag thieves are using nowadays. I therefore keep my keys in an old biscuit tin. Seems odd but apparently it works.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07CY2HT..._3GigDbCK7V3P4
This or something like it much easier than a biscuit tin especially if you are away my wife uses it when she goes to the kids in London and i use it if i am away in a hotel.
Last edited by mart broad; 30th June 2019 at 11:07.
If decent punishment were given to those responsible to those committing crime perhaps it might not be so rife, not among the opportunist thief anyway, Scottish government already getting easier on criminals, once again MSPs going against the thoughts of the people, or a least those I speak too.
Sorry, slightly off topic.
I think you will be OK, the risk is there though if you forget to lock the car as in theory they might be able to jump/amplify the signal to start the car once they are in. One thing that astounds me is that once the car has started and it then loses the key the car can still be driven away and is only a problem should they stop the engine. Maybe safety related but why not gradually switch bits of the car off when the key is out of reception?
In general the amount of laxity shown by major car manufacturers is astonishing. Take the OBD port, through which new "keys" can be programmed with the relevant equipment once the thieves access the interior of the vehicle. It is a legal requirement that the data through the OBD port cannot be encrypted, and has to be readily accessible. But surely placing the OBD port behind a key-locked flap wouldn't be too much to ask of manufacturers. It may only delay them for a bit but is still another security hurdle to overcome.
The more you read about the (lack) of car security measures from the manufacturers the more cynical you get about whether they're in cahoots with the insurance companies to make as much money as possible through replacing the stolen vehicles...
Last edited by amii21; 30th June 2019 at 16:29.
As an aside, I recently bought a low mileage 4 year old Golf as a second car and - in comparison to my other more modern Volvo - I’m really enjoying the action of actually inserting and turning a key to start and stop the car, and using an actual handbrake - as opposed to sticking a fob in a hole on the dash, pressing a button to start the engine, and another button to put the handbrake on and off. It also comes without distracting gadgets and sat nav, road sign recognition etc - so you can actually drive without distraction and rely on your own eyes to drive safely!
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I have it on my car. Think I can count on one thumb how many times the foot movement has resulted in opening the boot vs me having to put my bags down and open it the usual way.
I could live with that, but when I’m cleaning the rear bumper & exhaust the bloody boot pings open with ease right next to my head, so I know the sensor works lol.
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...your tin-foil hat
how do you do a hill start with a push button handbrake (in a manual that is)?
Most have hill assist which grabs the brakes initially as you move off. My sons Golf has this and for an old school guy like is a disconcerting.
My point!
Basically the handbrake disengages as you reach the clutch bite point, then there’s a few seconds of ‘hill hold’ if you hesitate - otherwise you’re off just like a ‘normal’ handbrake. My wife really dislikes automatics (we’ve had a couple and she far prefers a manual) but has real issues with auto handbrakes - she is actually an excellent driver - smooth, swift, safe, intuitively finds her way just about anywhere - but any car which messes with the ‘basics’ of driving gets her disapproval. Personally I’m all for the evolution of cars but lots of modern stuff seems to be ‘for the sake of it’ without any real need
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I consider the real problem to be our toothless hand-wringing snowflake government and legal system that is unwilling to deal properly with the oxygen-thieving sewer rats that permeate and foul our society these days!
Last edited by KavKav; 2nd July 2019 at 21:17.
I'm sure that wealth inequality and the gap between rich and poor getting larger and larger doesn't help matters either.
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