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Thread: Whatever happened to IWC?

  1. #51
    Master W124's Avatar
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    I remember when the Portuguese chrono was one of the hot watches - that ship followed HMS Panerai out of the dock.

    I bought a very tidy Portuguese 5001 7 day on SC around two years ago - it was on sale for some time, bumped/reduced and was great value.
    The black dial makes a very smart 'work' watch, and is easily identified as a quality piece by folks who know a little about watches.

    I still have it, and still love it,

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I like all of mine.

    So do I, you have some really great watches there.

    But do you agree with the OP that many of their recent offerings have wandered into chasing trends without backing them up with genuine technical and craftsmanship underpinnings?

    I love their past, but they seem a bit lost at present.

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  3. #53
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    I had a lovely Portugeiser....an ‘F A Jones’ version from around 2008. Real pleasure but I see nothing equivalent now that doesn’t retail at over 10K.



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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffcotton View Post
    Have to agree. I bought this watch on SC then sold it back to the original owner via SC.

    An absolute classic
    TBF I think that would be the peak of most manufacturers production.
    It absolutely rocks doesn’t it. Up there with the Sub, SM300, Baby Plo Prof etc

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    IWC peaked with this:



    It's been downhill ever since.
    That's still my "would sell all the collection" watch. And I would.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenPecked View Post
    That's still my "would sell all the collection" watch. And I would.
    WoS in Manchester always used to have a Ti 3536 in the window, going back 20 years or so. I remember not really liking the styling, a bit 70’s. Inevitably, I ended up loving them, handled one when Harvey Nicks sold them, still to this day the best built watch I’ve ever tried, smoothest crown action ever. 2.5k back then

    Gotta love a 3706 too

    Mostly overpriced now and very few independents will service them meaning the infamous Richemont butchers are the only source for routine servicing which does put me off ownership.


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    Nought wrong with ETA - known reliability and ease of service. People are too hung up with in house movements - especially on the lower end of watchmaking.

    Richemont are more the problem and confused the strategy - especially at entry level things went awry in the last decade, especially when they started messing around with the ingenieur in particular.

    The IWC I have is one of the last excellent IWCs ingenieurs

    what model is that one, looks awesome

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrusir View Post
    what model is that one, looks awesome
    Ingeneiur AMG 3725. It will be traded to a fellow member soon once we sort out logistics. It is a very nice watch - I'd have kept this if I could, owning it for 3 years. Unfortunately I fancy a change and can't splurge on big new things at the moment, so the only way to try something new is via trading.

  9. #59
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    There is nothing in their current line up that I would buy, far better off looking at Oris and Tudor etc.

  10. #60
    IWC where good when they where called International Watch Co schaffhausen.
    These are two of my most treasured watches.

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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    IWC peaked with this:



    It's been downhill ever since.

    I'd love a 3536.

    Anyway, old IWC's are cool..





    Last edited by quietly; 5th April 2020 at 03:01.

  12. #62
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    To be releasing an Ingenieur that has no extra magnetic protection, is brand suicide...

    https://www.watchtime.com/featured/i...-watch-review/

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    To be releasing an Ingenieur that has no extra magnetic protection, is brand suicide...

    https://www.watchtime.com/featured/i...-watch-review/
    I can imagine Seiko Sports 5 producing a watch like that in looks at least.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    IWC peaked with this:



    It's been downhill ever since.
    That was definitely a great era, but I think the 3227 just tops it. IWC had Richemont R&D money, which they used to create the in-house movement, yet they were still left alone. After the 3227 failed, it seemed like Richemont took a tighter hold over the brand.

  15. #65
    Journeyman Cybotron's Avatar
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    I love the pilots range. Still got my 3717

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  16. #66
    Journeyman Cybotron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I like all of mine.

    Wow. Very nice collection

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  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
    That was definitely a great era, but I think the 3227 just tops it. IWC had Richemont R&D money, which they used to create the in-house movement, yet they were still left alone. After the 3227 failed, it seemed like Richemont took a tighter hold over the brand.
    The 3227 was (is) a super watch but is a bit too big and heavy for many people, me included.
    Titanium 3536, however...

  18. #68
    Craftsman meijlinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    The 3227 was (is) a super watch but is a bit too big and heavy for many people, me included.
    Titanium 3536, however...
    For us big-wristed ppl the 3227 is just perfect.


    But I agree that IWC has lost their way a bit the last couple of years. Their entry-level watches have become too expensive for what you get.

    And don't get me started on the new ingeniour line.....

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by misterzero View Post
    I used to have a pilot chrono and AMG ingenier, they were really good watches then they got bloated and overpriced .The new pilots watches seem nice with in house movements and interesting designs hope they have turned the corner

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    Broadly in line with this. I’ve had a pilot and Ing chrono, both excellent pieces. New stuff doesn’t impress, the new Ing in fact feels really cheap.

    I would happily own a vintage Ing again or a titanium aqua timer 2000M. But that’s about it


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  20. #70
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    Back in the air





  21. #71
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browjam View Post
    IWC = I WEAR CLOCK
    I must admit International Watch Company always sounds like a Hong Kong based knock off company...

    M

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    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  22. #72
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    Whatever happened to IWC?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    I must admit International Watch Company always sounds like a Hong Kong based knock off company...

    M

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    This is my 1940s vintage knock off



    Looking for a modern portuguese chrono to go with this, this has become the wife’s watch.

  23. #73
    A bit of a thread revival! So the 'dinkee have a hands on with the new Spitfire model - I want to like it, but I'm not sure if I can. Some of the design cues look off to me and they got rid of the red writing which was rather nice.

    It may not be quite return to form but it's at least a start. I'll be in central london tomorrow, I may pass the boutique and see if they have it in stock.

    Given all the integrated sports watch hype, maybe we'll see a return of a 'proper' Ingenieur next year. Lord knows its been a while.

    Oops the link - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...graph-spitfire

  24. #74
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    Strangely enough, the silver Spitfire sponsored by IWC has been flying around here (Goodwood) quite a lot. Gorgeous looking thing, I just wish the IWC range could capture some of that style and beauty.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    Strangely enough, the silver Spitfire sponsored by IWC has been flying around here (Goodwood) quite a lot. Gorgeous looking thing, I just wish the IWC range could capture some of that style and beauty.
    One reason why this release is a little interesting is that they decided to deviate from the silver dials. It hasn't quite worked, and I also agree with a previous poster on the spitfire hands versus the Mark ones. I prefer the latter.

    Stern out of all people gave a critique on IWC recently in his Hodinkee interview (as part of the justification to limit producing SS watches and protect brand value) -

    "Many years ago, IWC was producing gold watches. Then they had problems, and they fabricated everything in steel. They tried to come back to gold, and they could never do it. Once you lower the price with steel, it is very hard to come back."

    IWC's attempts to improve sales effectively backfired and affected brand value. Tough to come back from that.

  26. #76

    portuguese

    I've had two portuguese in the past, just the simple deal dial chrono, one cream with gold numerals, the other black with silver, loved them eventually sold them on but then saw the rose gold portuguese perpetual which i still ache for, they come up occasionally but they've never come up when i've had the money

    still want the the back dial rose gold, or the blue dail white gold, ok off to chrono24 to browse, but i don't think the latest versions are better if anything they're worse, mind you if you think panerai model numbers are bad....

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    A bit of a thread revival! So the 'dinkee have a hands on with the new Spitfire model - I want to like it, but I'm not sure if I can. Some of the design cues look off to me and they got rid of the red writing which was rather nice.

    It may not be quite return to form but it's at least a start. I'll be in central london tomorrow, I may pass the boutique and see if they have it in stock.

    Given all the integrated sports watch hype, maybe we'll see a return of a 'proper' Ingenieur next year. Lord knows its been a while.

    Oops the link - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...graph-spitfire
    I have seen it for real it’s very nice,if the had put the old style Hands on I might have bought it.
    The strap is a stunner and would suit other pilot type watches.

  28. #78
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    A bit of a thread revival! So the 'dinkee have a hands on with the new Spitfire model - I want to like it, but I'm not sure if I can. Some of the design cues look off to me and they got rid of the red writing which was rather nice.

    It may not be quite return to form but it's at least a start. I'll be in central london tomorrow, I may pass the boutique and see if they have it in stock.

    Given all the integrated sports watch hype, maybe we'll see a return of a 'proper' Ingenieur next year. Lord knows its been a while.

    Oops the link - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...graph-spitfire
    From one of the letters below the article... and which perfectly explains the purpose of this thread:

    bondtoys.de·7 hours ago·edited 7 hours ago

    The real news is a bit hidden in the article and it's about the movement.

    On Hodinkee and others, there have been ravings about the new "inhouse" and/or "manufacture" movements that are used for most of the Spitfire collection.

    Now we are learning that the 69370 "shares some architecture with the Valjoux 7750" and 32110 is using an ETA 2892 "architecture".
    Not really inhouse imo and pretty sure that it means, that large amounts for these "inhouse" movements are still base ETA movements at best, most likely Sellita.

    Misleading at best and food for some further investigative journalism.

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    From one of the letters below the article... and which perfectly explains the purpose of this thread:
    Well seen mate - apparently the rotor 'wobble' is less prominent on these ones. But otherwise it seems pretty much a 7750. Very deceiving and not right.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    Well seen mate - apparently the rotor 'wobble' is less prominent on these ones. But otherwise it seems pretty much a 7750. Very deceiving and not right.
    There is not an agreed/accepted definition of in-house movements.
    One would think it means it is both DESIGNED and PRODUCED in-house.
    But it is not always so. Sometimes it is designed in-house and produced elsewhere. Or vice verse.
    Here it seems it is ‘based’ on 7750 but produced entirely in-house.
    This is not a secret. It is known since 69370 was introduced in 2016.
    Someone with more knowledge about watch movements can explain exactly what and how much did IWC do to 7750 and whether it is enough for them to claim it is in-house.

  31. #81
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    the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.

    I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.


  32. #82
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    If IWC can do it, what about the rest of the premium brands? Do you think that eventually it could be a 2 or 3 brand industry?

  33. #83
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    Love the older IWC pilot and here is my real oddball 3741 with the JLC cal 631 movement and crazy value for money.

    Perfect vintage 36mm which is a real contrast to my PAM312.

    It doesn’t get the wrist time it deserves and if the JLC Reverso had not sold on SC this would have been moved on. So glad to be holding onto it.

    Pitch


  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evangelos View Post
    the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.

    I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.

    Well said. Which model is that?

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrudd View Post
    Well said. Which model is that?
    the 322801

  36. #86
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    That’s a great photo and a lovely watch. What’s the diameter? All iwc watches seem to be huge, which is my only problem with them...


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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strchr03 View Post
    That’s a great photo and a lovely watch. What’s the diameter? All iwc watches seem to be huge, which is my only problem with them...


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Hello Sir, not sure if you refer to me, but the watch is 40mm, 2mm smaller than the conventional 3227.

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by dickdutch View Post
    If IWC can do it, what about the rest of the premium brands? Do you think that eventually it could be a 2 or 3 brand industry?
    We could see a 4 or 5 company industry each with several brands, and we’re not far away from that when you list the brands owned by Swatch, LVMH and Richemont.

    The smart watch era is this generations quartz crisis. It’ be interesting which brands survive it.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evangelos View Post
    the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.

    I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.

    Exactly the same for me.




  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    We could see a 4 or 5 company industry each with several brands, and we’re not far away from that when you list the brands owned by Swatch, LVMH and Richemont.

    The smart watch era is this generations quartz crisis. It’ be interesting which brands survive it.
    I agree. Surely Richemont can only afford to buy back and destroy their stock so many times????

  41. #91
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    We could see a 4 or 5 company industry each with several brands, and we’re not far away from that when you list the brands owned by Swatch, LVMH and Richemont.

    The smart watch era is this generations quartz crisis. It’ be interesting which brands survive it.
    People need to stop looking at brands and start looking in terms of the holding companies. In my book Richemont is at the bottom of the pile. Before watches, they were selling cigarettes (Rothmans).... Need one say more?

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    People need to stop looking at brands and start looking in terms of the holding companies. In my book Richemont is at the bottom of the pile. Before watches, they were selling cigarettes (Rothmans).... Need one say more?
    I agree - Richemont destroyed a large portion of Panerai's brand value and same with IWC. Swatch and LVMH have a much better track record.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    There is not an agreed/accepted definition of in-house movements.
    One would think it means it is both DESIGNED and PRODUCED in-house.
    But it is not always so. Sometimes it is designed in-house and produced elsewhere. Or vice verse.
    Here it seems it is ‘based’ on 7750 but produced entirely in-house.
    This is not a secret. It is known since 69370 was introduced in 2016.
    Someone with more knowledge about watch movements can explain exactly what and how much did IWC do to 7750 and whether it is enough for them to claim it is in-house.
    I really don’t care what movement is used, as long as it is a good one, but I would much prefer it if watch manufacturers were up front about this and did not claim in house when the movement is either produced by another and/or is copied or modified by the watch manufacturer and claimed as in house.

    My Omega Seamaster 1120 movement is based on the ETA 2892-A2 movement and does exactly what is required. I’m more than happy with that.
    Last edited by JeremyO; 22nd August 2019 at 13:15.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I agree - Richemont destroyed a large portion of Panerai's brand value and same with IWC. Swatch and LVMH have a much better track record.
    This is what makes me wary about ALS, great brand, awful owner.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    This is what makes me wary about ALS, great brand, awful owner.
    If you see ALS starting to produce steel watches and a sports watch, I'd be very worried about brand dilution. But otherwise it seems they're being very much left alone.

  46. #96
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    Oh NOOO!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    If you see ALS starting to produce steel watches and a sports watch, I'd be very worried about brand dilution. But otherwise it seems they're being very much left alone.
    https://www.watchprosite.com/a.-lang...26/1566489579/

  47. #97
    Uh oh!

    i genuinely wonder how they go about this while protecting brand value. Severely limited production? A true limited edition? Let’s see, but personally I think they should leave this area to others.

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I agree - Richemont destroyed a large portion of Panerai's brand value and same with IWC. Swatch and LVMH have a much better track record.
    I was sad to find out Vacheron Constatin are also owned by Richmond now, it puts me off a bit as I feel the company have lost something, it's like getting assimilated by the Borg.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I was sad to find out Vacheron Constatin are also owned by Richmond now, it puts me off a bit as I feel the company have lost something, it's like getting assimilated by the Borg.
    I agree with what you say, but the same doesn't go for Zenith being owned by LVMH, or even Omega and Swatch, or does it?

  50. #100
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    I agree - Richemont destroyed a large portion of Panerai's brand value and same with IWC. Swatch and LVMH have a much better track record.
    Did they really?

    It seems to me that they took what barely counted as a watchmaker, although one with dynamite history, and invested massively. They have built an incredibly valuable brand out of little more than an idea. I’ve read interviews about the Vendome takeover, and how roughly finished the pre-vendome watches were.

    I appreciate Panerai are not the hot brand that they were 5-10 years ago, but that is probably fashion as much as anything. I’m not seeing brand destruction.

    Dave


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