Yes, what happened. My recollection is that they used to be a serious player. Now they just seem over-priced and somewhat irrelevant .
Or is that harsh?
Yes, what happened. My recollection is that they used to be a serious player. Now they just seem over-priced and somewhat irrelevant .
Or is that harsh?
Whatever happened to the Likely Lads?
The rot set in with Sellita movements.Originally Posted by paskinner
Oh, and THAT date window.
The way I see it, there are two IWCs
Watches such as the Big Pilot are magnificent.
At the more accessibly priced end their use of ETA / Sellita from a brand with their engineering capability, just seems cheap. Their school report would say “could do better”. Sellita from the likes of Bremont or B&R is appropriate, but I expect more from IWC.
When I evaluated a Fliegerchronograph a couple of years ago, I thought I’d casework was very uninspiring compared with an equivalent Bremont
So IWC, yes please, but either vintage or a Big Pilot
D
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Richemont, that's what.Whatever happened to IWC?
And Georges Kern
They lost it years ago for me when they ditched Mk Hands in fabout of B-Uhr ones, and decided that internal bezels on Aquatimers were a bad idea.
JUst when other companies were beginning to discover their heritage, IWC threw away 2 of their greatest designs. Voluntarily.
They've been selling pastiches ever since, for me.
Dave
I agree with the above. I remember quite a few years back when an IWC 3536 was a sought after watch and a darling of this forum, a lot of people would have had one over a Sub.
The 3536 was, minus the movement, higher quality than a 16610. It was easily on par with the current Sub. The current AT is total crap in comparison.
Nought wrong with ETA - known reliability and ease of service. People are too hung up with in house movements - especially on the lower end of watchmaking.
Richemont are more the problem and confused the strategy - especially at entry level things went awry in the last decade, especially when they started messing around with the ingenieur in particular.
The IWC I have is one of the last excellent IWCs ingenieurs
Agreed. But IWC's problem is charging in-house prices for watches with bog-standard Sellita movements.
Jup fully agree - Richemont have been really bad with increasing entry prices and cheapening the quality. Look at what they've done with Panerai entry models.
They've lost their way. I like the older model IWC's that I own but the current offerings leave me cold.
what have they done?
Also massive massive discounting was availiable on IWCs between 5-10 years ago, which hurt sales big time.
Why pay 5k rrp when it could be had new for half that, value retention, perceived value is a huge factor for most people (which is why Rolex has done well wether we like their control over pricing or not)
I agree, its a shame how the entry Panerai models have been redesigned to cut costs, and yet still demand the same asking price :(
I have no issue at all with ETA /Sellita, but for a company like IWC with all their history, and engineering ability, they could do better. For a much newer company, Bremont comes to mind, they have no alternative, but we should be mindful of asking price and value.
I think they are in effect a two speed company, so really inspiring stuff at over £10k, and some very pedestrian entry level stuff. A Mark XVIII on a strap retails at close to £4000. It just smacks of laziness
D
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I still don't get your argument - IWC have used ETA movements for a large part of their history for entry watches, they should (IMO) continue to use them - it has nothing to do with 'doing better' - as Seasmaster rightly pointed out above, they have a pricing problem for said watches.
Completely agree, a Mark XVIII should be closer to two grand than four! Just because Rolex can get away with murder, other brands think they can do the same. It was never going to end well when Richemont got hold of the company.
Remember the halcyon days of the Mark XII with the JLC movement?
Last edited by KavKav; 25th June 2019 at 07:52.
Not quite two!
The new spitfire version with in-house looks a much better proposition at about the same money. The “vintage” look isn’t for me, although it looks positive for the next Mark
Dave
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what model is that one, looks awesomeNought wrong with ETA - known reliability and ease of service. People are too hung up with in house movements - especially on the lower end of watchmaking.
Richemont are more the problem and confused the strategy - especially at entry level things went awry in the last decade, especially when they started messing around with the ingenieur in particular.
The IWC I have is one of the last excellent IWCs ingenieurs
Ingeneiur AMG 3725. It will be traded to a fellow member soon once we sort out logistics. It is a very nice watch - I'd have kept this if I could, owning it for 3 years. Unfortunately I fancy a change and can't splurge on big new things at the moment, so the only way to try something new is via trading.
I have just sold an iwc heritage mk xiii it was a lovely looking watch but on the wrist it just felt and looked like an old timex i was the third owner in 6 months and now its off to number 4 says it all really
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I think Richemont screwed both IWC and Panerai these past few years...
While I’m not following IWC,I do follow pam and their new models lacking the timelessness of their older models (blue second,colorful paint on the dial,spring bars,snap back etc...)
I used to have a pilot chrono and AMG ingenier, they were really good watches then they got bloated and overpriced .The new pilots watches seem nice with in house movements and interesting designs hope they have turned the corner
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Well I'm going to have to retract my earlier comments!
Calibre 32000 in the "Spitfire" pilots watches, and of course the 82000 in the partnering Chronograph
That looks like definitely turning a corner
I've learnt something
Dave
Last edited by helidoc; 24th June 2019 at 23:25.
Strangely enough, the silver Spitfire sponsored by IWC has been flying around here (Goodwood) quite a lot. Gorgeous looking thing, I just wish the IWC range could capture some of that style and beauty.
One reason why this release is a little interesting is that they decided to deviate from the silver dials. It hasn't quite worked, and I also agree with a previous poster on the spitfire hands versus the Mark ones. I prefer the latter.
Stern out of all people gave a critique on IWC recently in his Hodinkee interview (as part of the justification to limit producing SS watches and protect brand value) -
"Many years ago, IWC was producing gold watches. Then they had problems, and they fabricated everything in steel. They tried to come back to gold, and they could never do it. Once you lower the price with steel, it is very hard to come back."
IWC's attempts to improve sales effectively backfired and affected brand value. Tough to come back from that.
I've had two portuguese in the past, just the simple deal dial chrono, one cream with gold numerals, the other black with silver, loved them eventually sold them on but then saw the rose gold portuguese perpetual which i still ache for, they come up occasionally but they've never come up when i've had the money
still want the the back dial rose gold, or the blue dail white gold, ok off to chrono24 to browse, but i don't think the latest versions are better if anything they're worse, mind you if you think panerai model numbers are bad....
Broadly in line with this. I’ve had a pilot and Ing chrono, both excellent pieces. New stuff doesn’t impress, the new Ing in fact feels really cheap.
I would happily own a vintage Ing again or a titanium aqua timer 2000M. But that’s about it
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Back in the air
They don’t seem to have many fans on TZ! But they brought that on themselves.
The double chronograph , the top gun pilot and top gun chronograph all have in-house movements for similar money to other brands though I agree that the models featuring Sellita/ETA movement are expensive for what they are .I would like to see some new models in their diving watch range l.
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I love the new 38mm pilot that debuted a year or so ago. If that was priced commensurate with its Sellita movement, I'd have bought one by now. There's some savage discounts on the grey market, but not quite savage enough for me.
The smaller dimensions also avoid the date window howler on the Mk XVIII.
Im a big fan of the old ingenieurs but thats really where it ends with IWC for me apart from the rubberclad aquatimer which is pretty cool.
I had my hands on the new pilot mk IW326801 on the green nato recently and found it inoffensive, but that was the extent of the effect it had.
Very much this. "Inoffensive" isn't a reason to splash out thousands, certainly in my eyes. They're just... Undistinguished, and not very interesting - even if they do seem to have ditched the stupid date window nonsense. Binning their heritage hasn't helped, either.
I'd love a vintage one, or a mecaquartz, though.
the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.
I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.
Love the older IWC pilot and here is my real oddball 3741 with the JLC cal 631 movement and crazy value for money.
Perfect vintage 36mm which is a real contrast to my PAM312.
It doesn’t get the wrist time it deserves and if the JLC Reverso had not sold on SC this would have been moved on. So glad to be holding onto it.
Pitch
Well said. Which model is that?the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.
I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.
Exactly the same for me.the 'problem' started when we started thinking which watch will not lose value over time.
I like my IWC, I chose it simply because I liked it, after all is a watch, not a financial product.
It’s a great discussion point. To some it up their modern entry level watches have eta movements and their more complex watches are over priced, with very poor residuals. I’ve owned a few but glad I sold them.
I think watch collectors now are a lot more savvy now. The more desired IWC,s are now classed as vintage when IWC had some clout in the market.
IWC peaked with this:
It's been downhill ever since.
I know this watch is not very well liked, personally i think it is a cracking looking watch and will be a future classic with the unorthodox date window:
I love the idea of the 3741 mecaquartz because I have the utmost respect for IWC as ebauche tinkerers. I think there is a strong argument to be made for this movement being the pinnacle of a thouroughly respectable branch of Swiss watchmaking.
Its pencilled in as my final significant on-retirement purchase. Secondhand of course.
- - - Updated - - -
I don't mind the date window but it's changing 2 hours early.I know this watch is not very well liked, personally i think it is a cracking looking watch and will be a future classic with the unorthodox date window:
The design was explained to me that you could always read the date either side if the hand was blocking the middle.I know this watch is not very well liked, personally i think it is a cracking looking watch and will be a future classic with the unorthodox date window:
I like mine,the date window doesn't bother me nor does the movement as I know it’s been refined before fitting.
Can some one explain to me please,is an in house movement always better than a tried and tested movement?
How is that possible do they never make mistakes?
The date changes at 12.00,the dial,hands and glass are crystal clear with an easy to read contrast.
It’s neither to big,to small or to heavy.
It’s understated and oozes a simple class in my opinion.
how much does a forensic anthropologist make per year
Have to agree. I bought this watch on SC then sold it back to the original owner via SC.IWC peaked with this:
It's been downhill ever since.
An absolute classic
dont know about the rest of you but id take another top gun flieger chrono,
had one before, bloody cool watch
TBF I think that would be the peak of most manufacturers production.
It absolutely rocks doesn’t it. Up there with the Sub, SM300, Baby Plo Prof etc
That's still my "would sell all the collection" watch. And I would.IWC peaked with this:
It's been downhill ever since.
WoS in Manchester always used to have a Ti 3536 in the window, going back 20 years or so. I remember not really liking the styling, a bit 70’s. Inevitably, I ended up loving them, handled one when Harvey Nicks sold them, still to this day the best built watch I’ve ever tried, smoothest crown action ever. 2.5k back then
Gotta love a 3706 too
Mostly overpriced now and very few independents will service them meaning the infamous Richemont butchers are the only source for routine servicing which does put me off ownership.
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