Been doing some research on the Quasar and I've come across this. What is it?
It looks like a Smiths canteen diver. Any other info? Any more pictures?
I love the dial, the hands the script...
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(Got the pic from here - about half way down) Flyaway Smiths at Cotswold auction room today
https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...ion-room-today
I’d say it’s a franken on first impression. I own a watch with precisely that dial:
and the case, especially the crown, looks American, like so:
But more like Waltham, off the top of my head. However, reading the link and given the potential provenance I could be, and probably am, flat wrong.
Last edited by M4tt; 23rd June 2019 at 18:50.
It's a Smiths 1215 in a COSD case.
Or rather it's the Smiths 1215 in a COSD case.
Almost certainly 1.) some sort of prototype for the MoD / MoS and 2.) the best proof (circumstantial evidence) that Dennison made those cases.
A friend of mine bought at that auction (a near-legendary event among Smiths fans) and I know of one other that is, indeed, a franken and was put together by a watchmaker who had a completely unrelated case and movement.
The pre-DL dial suggest a date from 1947-1951 for the movement.
The link in the OP is well worth reading ;-)
Originally Posted by Rev-O
So what is a COSD case? It’s a delightfully new one on me. As I said, the crown looks American, and if and when your friend opens it up, I’d be delighted to see the pendant (and everything else, because that looks far more like a Star than an ALD.
And the link is absolutely and fantastically worth reading. Thanks.
Last edited by M4tt; 23rd June 2019 at 19:12.
I have the same question.
Ah, the COSD cases. That's a question for the "tuna can fans" (as aficionados of these are called) and not really my area of expertise.
Best asking at mwr, they know everything there. They seem to have been made for paratroopers late in WW2, although the lack of extra shockproofing (eg internal springs) and the apparent waterproof nature of them has led others to suggest they were for use by clearance divers (and there were a lot of mines, wrecks etc in 1944-5).
The crown was right, irc, but stiff and possibly seized.
I still don't know what a COSD case is... but it looks like Longines are making a homage with that Smiths case.
Longines’s Military-Inspired Watch Separates Itself From the Field
https://gearpatrol.com/2016/03/04/re...military-cosd/
The answer is here... it says it is a WWII British design...
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...-military-cosd
Last edited by abraxas; 23rd June 2019 at 22:03.
What size are these COSD cases meant to be? because the one next to the Weems here:
https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...clarifications
suggests to me that they are 36mm or more and I know for a fact that the Smiths dial in the picture is around 25mm because I own a few. Do they come in different sizes and is the Smiths a tiny COSD? I can see it working in a 33 case but not a 35mm one.
The dial in the OP did come in a slightly larger size, or at least flattened (as opposed to the 'smaller' one that has a slight dish, curve and is fitted to the 12.15 mvts). It was fitted to the first commercial Smiths 13.15 mvt watches, the fabled "end of a military contract" sold circa 1946/7. A couple of members on MWR have that dial on the 13''' mvt in a Dennison 13322.
The wide bezel of the COSD case adds to the size for sure.
Last edited by size11s; 23rd June 2019 at 22:10.
Thanks, this was clearly a moment of not seeing the wood for the trees - I'd already spent ten minutes comparing my dial printing, hands and so on with the one in the picture and had convinced myself that they were identical, which they are. However, after reading this, I looked again and suddenly noticed that the dial printing is surrounded by a couple of mm of space all round. It's amazing what you don't see if you are not looking for it.
Talking of End of Military Contract watches:
ooooh.....is that a civi W10? That's a rare beast, and like buses....one sold recently on eBay.
Another pic of the Smiths COSD next to a Smiths MkX in a 33.5mm Dennison 13322 case, from the Cotswold auction for size comparison. There is a good margin outside the minute track and then the wide bezel makes it look a big watch.
Yes, I see it now. I just wish I'd seen it before deciding that the only thing something so small would fit in was a Waltham A11 case...ooooh.....is that a civi W10? That's a rare beast, and like buses....one sold recently on eBay.
Another pic of the Smiths COSD next to a Smiths MkX in a 33.5mm Dennison 13322 case, from the Cotswold auction for size comparison. There is a good margin outside the minute track and then the wide bezel makes it look a big watch.
And it's a bit funkier than that:
I should have looked closer too....I just saw an unmarked screw caseback and didn't look much more through my bleary eyes...a very unusual and mint Astral.
I think (iirc) 1950s Smith dials came in 26mm and 28mm, the latter for the Dennison Aquatite case (the A4xx models)
That's one of only two know centre seconds examples. They all have a hole drilled in top plate for the fourth wheel spring but it seemed Smiths couldn't make it work so they converted to the easier to make sub seconds. I think the MoS / RAF spec sheet stipulated CS but it would be another ten years before Smiths mastered that, in 1953 with the 27CS - (1)2(''' size) (1)7 (jewels) C(enter) S(seconds)ooooh.....is that a civi W10? That's a rare beast, and like buses....one sold recently on eBay.
Another pic of the Smiths COSD next to a Smiths MkX in a 33.5mm Dennison 13322 case, from the Cotswold auction for size comparison. There is a good margin outside the minute track and then the wide bezel makes it look a big watch.
Last edited by Rev-O; 24th June 2019 at 21:55.
That's certainly my experience. However, while the A419(4) dial certainly comes in both sizes, and looks to me to be scaled to fit the smaller or larger dial, I've never seen this sort of dial in the larger version before and it is clearly not scaled to fit.I think (iirc) 1950s Smith dials came in 26mm and 28mm, the latter for the Dennison Aquatite case (the A4xx models)
True but that auction was full of things no-one had ever seen before!
It was like Smiths R&D dept from WW2 to 1974 was for sale.
It would be great if information from the lots in that auction started to filter out, there were even manufacturing drawings iirc. Did your friend Mr Nye get that lot with the COSD and the MkX centre seconds Revo?
Re dial sizes on the 13.15 dial plate, below is a pic taken by Obsoletewatchandclockparts when he was sorting my Mongrel (long story), the bottom watch. All Dennison 13322 cases with 13.15 movements, without bezels in place. The centre watch is as sold by SmithS, the dial on the bottom watch was on a 12.15 movement and John told me that he had to "flatten it a little" to fit it on to the 13''' dial plate. Looking at the pics they are now pretty much the same size.
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This does make me think that a Smiths COSD issue (we cannot really call it a re-issue) would be great.
The Longines re-issue was so disappointing for having less WR that the original, and a date window of all things. Pah.
Eddie - any chance???
Dave
Yep. He spent quite a lot that day. ;-)
He also bought the Mk XI earlier this year
That one and hopefully some of the Smiths stuff will be going on display in the museum.
And funnily enough, my father-in-law's initials are C.O.S.D. Smith
Nah, I'm joking about my father-in-law.
Last edited by Rev-O; 25th June 2019 at 13:29.
I remember you saying that he bought the Mk XI. He certainly seems to have bought most of the historically important SmithS bits and bobs over the last few years.
When you say Museum do you mean the Clockworkers now based in the Science Museum? I think it's a great gesture (for posterity and all that) if that is his intention. It would ensure safety from loss (hopefully) and possible public display but it wouldn't necessarily mean that the items would be easily accessible for amateur research purposes. In many ways I think more would be gleaned out of these rare items if the information that they contain was put out into a public forum. Unless of course Mr Nye or an associate is undertaking thorough research on his amazing collection to be published at some point in the future. Just my idle thoughts.....
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