Reply With QuoteYou should look at having your head read.
Hopefully you people can maybe help with some questions I have about Range Rovers.
I’m looking to maybe purchase a Range Rover, it’ll be an older model around 2012/2013, I don’t do many miles, maybe 8000 to 9000 miles a year.
Is there any specific model I should look out for in a good way and what should I ensure a possible car has, I.e low miles, paperwork etc etc...
Thanks all.
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You should look at having your head read.
They have a reputation for extremely poor reliability. Avoid.Originally Posted by Martylaa
Bit harsh
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Many a true word though,,Bit harsh
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Statstistically Range Rovers are a disaster but the owners seem to love them.
Maybe FrankieFourFingers is the best placed to advise.
Older model will be the L322 then.
With that mileage, I’d go 5.0 Supercharged petrol Autobiography or Westminster. Westminster was the fully loaded run out model before the L405 came in.
Obviously full service history. At that age, a decent Indy for the most recent services is fine. Clean MOT.
It’s a big old heavy car so bushes can perish causing squeezing. Easy enough to just replace the top or bottom suspension arms.
Air suspension can get tired. Give it a stress test by lowering to the lowest setting and going all the way to the highest setting. It should do it on one smooth action. Shouldn’t take too long. Slow rising could be a compressor on the way out. Re seal kits can be bought and the compressor can be serviced. Odd corner showing lower than the others could be a suspension bag gone.
Rust along the tailgate.
Thanks Kungfupanda, I'll look into that...
Although they are fabulous things in so many ways, pretty much every single person I know who has had them has had problems- and I know a lot who have had them.
Land Rover servicing is about the most expensive there is, and parts are pretty eye watering too.
The only real experience I have of ownership is years ago the missus had a Freelander. That was absolutely disastrous in terms of reliability.
I am sure there are people who have fault free ownership, but according to pretty much every reliability survey they are few and far between.
If you want a big upmarket 4x4 why not consider, well, pretty much everything else really, but Lexus are pretty much faultless, or Audi, or even a VW Touareg - I’ve had one for two years now since new and although it isn’t as flash, it has all the kit and not a single thing has gone wrong. Nothing. Not very economical though, but neither is a Range Rover.
Others here will know far more than me though.
So clever my foot fell off.
I've had a Range Rover and two Freelanders, all trouble-free. I'm considering getting an Evoque in the near future.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
There's always one...
So clever my foot fell off.
Interesting comments - I was in the very early stages of considering an Evoque and had heard reliability & serving/parts costs might be an issue.
My wife has had two Discovery Sports as company cars. Both have been trouble free and racked up plenty of miles getting her around the country in safety and comfort. They also worked as taxis/ removal vans, moving children into and out of Uni over the years. They offer good interior space and average of 40 MPG with reasonable insurance costs.
Mrs Draft ran an Evoque for a few years. Excellent car- I couldn’t fault it. For the record I’ve had (and still have) Series and Defender LRs.
The 4.2 s/c are considered the least unreliable although I'm not sure they went upto 2012. 3.6 tdv8 can need turbos which is an engine out job I believe. Gearboxes are a bit suspect on some.
Harry Metcalfe did a great Harry's Garage on the tdv8 ones, he loves them. Worth a google.
Most of what I know I have gleaned from FFF on here and from FullfatRR.co.uk
I'd like a really nice 4.4 petrol with a good lpg conversion or even better an overfinch 580s even with the chocolate engine. My classic causes quite enough problems mind.
Range Rover Evoques and the later Discovery Sports are far better now than they were even 2-3 years ago. I drive a Discovery Sprt and my business partner drives an Evoque and they've both been trouble free and return well over 40mpg
I wouldn't and couldn't have said that a few years ago.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd June 2019 at 18:58.
David beware!!!!......you know my dislike for gas conversions and this is the reason why......
This is a BMW 4.4 lump in a RR and it's taken out No:6 cylinder bore and burnt out the corresponding exhaust valves.
Net result engine FUBAR. I can say without doubt that the LPG conversion has been the contributing factor in this.
sorry no pics of the damage
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd June 2019 at 19:06.
My cousin bought a 2012 V8 oil burner 75k miles two years ago, had no problems to date
Last edited by hilly10; 22nd June 2019 at 20:15.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback and I’ll do a bit more research before making a decision.
Don't get a diesel Evoque, at least not a recent one. You may already be aware but the transverse installation of the Jag Ingenium 4 pot in the Evoque and other related models has the DPF too far from the manifold to heat up quickly, leading to an awful lot of failed active regens, leading to sumps full of unburnt diesel. I know of owners who are getting a service warning on the dash due to the oil level rising (through oil contaminated and thinned by diesel) every 5 thou miles. Fine while you are under a service pack, not great outside of this cover. Oh and there are an awful lot of Friday afternoon cars it seems. Bonnet switches, flakey electronics etc etc. My dad got a new HSE spec one 2 years ago and swapped it for an Allroad V6 a month ago and has never been happier. He was on first name terms with the guy from JLR mobile support and it had had 4 oil changes in 2 years and around 20k miles. He too had a Touareg for 8 years prior to the Evoque and it never put a foot wrong.
Last edited by Padders; 22nd June 2019 at 20:07.
Do it.
I had a 16 plate Evoque and it was a brilliant car. Traded it in last year and wish I hadn't, even though the Jag I bought is a great motor I'm still thinking of getting another Evoque next year! I also had a Freelander (dodgy mate the head gasket will blow!!) for 3 years and it never missed a beat either.
Looking at the other manufacturers the only others that are tempting at the moment are Merc and Alfa for their Stelvio. Going to test drive those and then decide. All the other German stuff is pretty soulless imo.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
That ties in with my experience of the Evoque. Neighbour in the farm next door has a Disco Sport and rates it too.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
What engine was in yours? Ford 2.2 diesel, Jag 2.0 diesel or petrol?
Ingenium 2.0 diesel 180bhp. Storming motor, quiet, plenty of oomph for a mid range suv, economical too. Have the same engine in my Jag now, next year will prob go 240bhp diesel or 249bhp petrol.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I test drove the Stelvio Milano 280, and the Quadrafoglio a few weeks ago.
The former was perfectly pleasant, quite quick, but interior felt a bit cheap. The latter is hugely powerful and a complete hoot, but a bit pointless in many respects. I’d probably have an iPace (which I recently drove at Millbrook) over either.
That said, I haven’t completely crossed a Stelvio off my list.
So clever my foot fell off.
Many of my pals have them. Full size and Sport. My wife is currently pregnant and I have just got my first 4x4 so asked them when I was making the decision. Consensus? It’s a car to lease from new and only then with the service pack included. Can’t remember the exact figures but thousands of pounds of work on an almost brand new car was reported).
What did I go for? Fancied a Velar but by the time you’ve put the extras on, it’s a £65k motor. Ended up with an Outlander PHEV on a salsac lease through work (ULEV savings-if you know, you know) for the missus and something a bit sporty for myself.
Its like a high maintainance wife
Not many have them for long.
I've got a 16 plate Evoque. I got SE spec as it is a company car (personal contribution lease). As described above, nice car and plenty of power.
As also described, the DPF situation is far from ideal. I got mine new and have had to put it into the dealer 5 or 6 times in the last 18 months due to the filter needing regenerated. Theoretically I should be able to do this myself by taking the car on a long run, but on almost every occasion this has occured it has happened right after a 100+ mile journey. Infuriating and has put me right off the car. In addition, despite benefitting from the new engine, the interior has dated quickly - it features hard buttons on the small screen of the central console and the Bluetooth is flaky. I had it in for a service last week and had a brand new Evoque as a courtesy car for a day, also SE spec - but it was far nicer. That said, I've pretty much ruled out getting another - my next car I'm looking at a petrol as I am doing fewer miles these days, and I like the look of the Merc GLC Coupe, BMW X4, and the Volvo XC60.
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They are Marmite. Iv'e had 4 LR's over the last 20yrs, interspersed with a Golf GTDI and Civic i-DTEC and currently have a 3.0ltr TDV6 RRS so I guess I fall into the love them camp.
Reliability wise, other than the D3 (which was brilliant), all have had some of the usual problems, none of which have been terminal or really expensive. They do cost a bit more to run, and maintain relative to a family hatchback, but this can be mitigated by finding a specialist garage who know these complicated cars. Never, ever take it to the main dealers. With the mileage you do, I would take a 5.0ltr SC V8 petrol and avoid anything with a DPF.
Join the appropriate LR forum and ask the questions. Oh, and if you buy one, don't blame me, I need my head examining.
Really interesting. I went to Land Rover Milton Keynes recently for a look (dreadful dealer attitude- but that’s another story) and looked at the Velar - while they look fantastic I wasn’t blown away as I expected to be. When I had specked it to where I would want it the price was 70k, and it didn’t feel like a 70k car (not when I could have a Stelvio Quadrafoglio for the same money).
I keep coming back to the Outlander PHEV though. Everyone who has them seems to love them. For me, who has a commute round trip of appx 30miles I could end up paying virtually nothing for fuel - which does seem very cool. My two reservations are - the interior is just ok, and the performance stats are hardly exciting. However, perhaps the fun comes from the clever tech and how you use it instead?
I'd add the Volvo XC90 into the 'pick anything else' mix.
I love the idea of a Range Rover, but not the prospects of actually owning one.
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We’ve had an Evoque Dynamic Lux for the last 4 years. Apart from one electrical glitch just after buying it, it’s been faultless. Mind you it has got the bullet proof 2.2 engine, not the temperamental 2.0 ingenium lump. I’d never buy any diesel car that needs addblue.
Flying Banana- it’s a good car but you’re right, it’s has no means a premium feel. The interior is ok if you get the top one (5H iirc). This gives you the leather seats and decent stereo as well as some pointless safety bits. I got the bordello looking red leather seats and they are oddly nice-reminiscent of Bentley.
No sat nav because the one in your phone is better than the one they put in a Phantom so you just use CarPlay instead. Apparently all manufacturers are going this way and it makes sense to me.
Boot smaller than you’d think because of space taken by batteries and the electric tailgate takes forever to close.
Interestingly, you’ll only get 30 miles out of a full charge maybe 3 months a year. Temperature has a massive effect on the efficiency of the batteries. In winter, when it’s consistently lower than 5 degs, capacity is more like 12 miles. The trick is to set the car up to preheat before you set off to work while it’s still plugged into the mains. This will get you a few more miles.
If you’re getting one through a salsac lease at work and making the tax savings on the lease cost, then it’s a very good value car. Mine was almost £50k and I can’t see how that’s even remotely good value privately without that saving. Fuel costs would never be enough alone.
Amnesia-no interiors like a Volvo these days but there is a real problem with the XC90; by the time you’ve specced one you’d actually want to drive (probably the T8 hybrid), you can get a Cayenne, Levante, X5 etc. for the same money. All holistically better cars IMO.
If I were the OP, and I were looking for a used, luxury, large 4x4, it’d be a 2012+ Q7 or RX450h. Both are good looking and well made, for the segment relatively cheap to run (VW and Toyota parts) and nice inside. It’d be easy to get carried away on a Cayenne for similar money (slap a private plate on it and it could be a £60k motor) but as an ex-Porsche owner, the £5K annual service on a seemingly healthy car is a reality.
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On my recent trips around dealerships (I am looking in earnest as my change is coming up soon) I have looked at Volvos. I was very impressed by the XC60 T8 in particular. However, it does essentially what the Outlander PHEV does, with a nicer interior, is much faster, doesn’t charge as quickly, and costs about 20k + more.
I’m trying to justify it to myself though. Given that my daily car really is pretty much just used for a low speed half urban commute it’s not easy.
So clever my foot fell off.
@TheFlyingBanana
Have you considered the I-Pace? I know that it’s on the face a very expensive car but, again, if you can salsac lease it, the inducements bring lease costs right down.
And if you’re earning close to any of the tax thresholds (£50k, £100k or £150k) then it’s a no brainer incrementally.
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Wasn’t there a chap on here who had one and had a seal around the front bulkhead fail a year or less out of warranty and water ingress killed the electronics. IIRC Mitsubishi weren’t interested in any goodwill and it effectively wrote the car off?
I had a 190 bhp diesel evoque for 2 years which was pretty much faultless, changed to a 180 bhp diesel disco sport which had many more reliability issues over the 3 years of ownership. Good enough cars to drive and 33/4 mpg from each. JLR make the best looking range of vehicles at the moment, IMHO anyway.
Before changing in March I drove lots of different SUV types, qite liked the stelvio and the xd60 Volvo but opted for a Macan in the end. Less than 10k miles pa so fuel less of an issue, and will be even less so when I retire shortly.
Amazing build quality, the thing feels hewn from a solid block, and the electronics miles ahead of anything else.
Go German.
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I wanted to buy british and bought an 18 month old Discovery Sport. Most unreliable Car i ever had, most stuff replaced under warranty.
The worst bit was the failed DPF regenerations which dilutes the Engine Oil. They eventually came up with a software algorithm to calculate it and it meant an oil change every 6000 miles. As word spreads they will only plummet in value so i sold it after 18 months even though it had 3 years warranty. Replaced it with a faultless BMW X3 petrol.
Try google, Land Rover failed DPF regeneration...
typical... https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/forum...-dpf-problems/
I spent a day driving the iPace (and other Jags) but mostly the iPace at Millbrook a few months ago - very impressive.
Salsac doesn’t apply to me unfortunately.
It is on my shortlist though.
What I am trying to do is reduce my monthly overall cost on my commuter car (which is currently running at about £750 per month including fuel) to a slightly more sensible level overall.
My commute changed a year ago, and although it isn’t much further (only a couple of miles each way extra), it has gone from a max of 15minutes each way on a single fast road (with never any hold ups) to between 45 minutes and an hour and fifteen mostly at slow urban speeds.
As a result fuel economy has plummeted on a Touareg 3.0 TDi to around 22mpg average over time.
At the end of the day this is a commuter car for 90% of the time, so I am trying to be at least a little sensible for the first time ever. I have something else for the weekend.
So clever my foot fell off.
The OP is looking for a 5/6 year old car... I'd take the pre face-lift XC90 over anything else of similar age/price... although it would have to be diesel.
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I get you matey. I know that this is probably just terminology but the latest XC90 is a ground up new model rather than a facelift. The ones 5-6 years old for the OP will be based on a much older design than the Lexus or Audi equivalent. Especially noticeable on the old fashioned interior.
On the other hand, it’s for that reason they’ll be cheap.
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Thanks all for the comments, it's making for interesting reading about the RR's. FFF has been in touch so I'm going to pick his brains over a few things when I've read up a bit more...
Ellgal, never really looked at the Lexus Rx450 before, might have a look at those as well, thanks...
R Rover are without doubt the best looking 4x4 on the road- also the most heartache and stress.50yrs in the the motor trade and every so often I have to stop myself buying one because I should and do know better! They do have a siren quality that you must resist.
A family member has a Lexus rx400, mega miles, bought cheap as a stop gap and now he has a family it stays. It seems to go on and on with very few issues. I don't imagine the 450 would be different.
FFF - spoil sport!
My dad had a Lexus 400 as well, asked him to let me know when he was selling it, he did t and part ex’d it for a ridiculously low price against a Santa Fe, I wasn’t happy lol...
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If you want one then get it out of your system, just go in with your eyes open and be on good terms with a decent specialist.
The 02-12 shape isn't the worst mechanically, the 3.0 bmw diesel is a reliable enough unit, as are the petrol versions, but on the whole theres plenty to go wrong and lots of them can be costly enough.
Which engine has fewer problems, the 2 litre or 2.2 litre diesel?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
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