A lot of sound psychology here. You could cash in and buy 3 mid tier pieces that you would be comfortable wearing i.e. diver, Chrono, dress.
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I’ve been collecting watches, namely Rolex, for the last 8 years. In that time I’ve always thought that they were quite an expensive hobby but, buy right, as they held their money extremely well, you may even break even. It’s been a great hobby and I’ve enjoyed wearing my watches immensely. I’ve now come to the view, although fortunate that my small collection has grown quite considerably in value, I just don’t wish to wear a £10k steel watch anymore. In fact, all of my watches which I used to wear quite happily, I feel have been artificially inflated and that they’ve become too expensive to enjoy. The watches have now become so expensive I don’t take a pleasure from them, I just see them as too valuable to enjoy.
I can’t help but think that the money the watches have risen in value could be better spent by my family as a whole and as I’m not a wealthy person, I rightly or wrongly should capitalise on the high prices as it’s not every day you make £5k profits walking into a shop and coming out with a trinket that’s in such high demand, someone is willing to pay you for the convenience of beating a list.
I’m not moaning that I’ve made money on my watches, I appreciate I’m very fortunate in that respect. I’m moaning that I personally don’t want to wear or even own a watch that i have bought/could have bought previously for X amount and now the market rate is so highly inflated, I just can’t relate to it.
I actually thought today that if I sold my collection and bought a new explorer 2 for £6250, I could enjoy this as a one watch beater every day. It then dawned on me that it’s still a £6250 watch! The Rolex marketing has well and truly won. They’ve convinced us that the train will never stop and our prized watches will retain and grow in value.
The elephant in the room though has surely got to be....there’s just got to be a price correction no?!?
How can this madness be sustained? Steel and gold Daytona’s that were plentiful with discounts now trading over list? What is this madness? How does it stop..
Does anyone relate to this at all?
The bottom line is, I just can’t justify owning these mass produced trinkets that are at a price point which is eye watering. My love for the history of the brand, the magic of owning certain models is lost on me because I just see a huge pile of money sitting there....
A lot of sound psychology here. You could cash in and buy 3 mid tier pieces that you would be comfortable wearing i.e. diver, Chrono, dress.
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You could try another brand - one that doesn’t hold its value?
There will be a price correction for certain models, once availability is better. That's always been the case. There is no point over thinking it.
I thought twice about wearing my 5711 the other day. Especially after seeing Chronext offering one for almost £71,000! But, it's only a watch, and I like it so I wore it.
I've always felt that there is no point selling things unless you have a good alternative use of the money already in mind.
I'm likely to sell off a number of watches and buy a house at some stage - but I'm not going to stop buying watches that I like.
Let's face it, any watch over £2000 is pretty expensive - most people wouldn't expect your steel Rolex is worth anything like £10k-£20k, they would just assume it's an extensive watch like an Omega or Breitlibg etc. - so best to just enjoy them, or sell up and enjoy something else.
It's just a matter of time...
Been there, done it.
The juice for me was always the chase, the thrill of finding the "missing pieces" in a so-called great collection.
Cash them all and enjoy the money elsewhere as eating on your conscience is no good. Hey you can come back as suggested and start over, even at a lower price point.
Only caveat would be if you have something that's really personal or really irreplaceable, keep it. But bin the rest!
I dealt with a guy who’s been a keen collector for many years. He said one day he was wearing an Explorer must have been the big hand ( pardon my Rolex ignorance ) and suddenly took fright at the vastly expensive watch he was wearing . Sold it and now has an interesting array of Bulova’s. I bet he’s still got one Rolex tucked away though.
Anyway Omega have a vast range of interesting vintage from £400 to £40,000 with still the odd deal around . As they say “other brands are also available”
Others have said it as well but maybe go for what visually interests you. Zenith , Breitling Top Times. Man there’s some lovely Panda Dial beauties out there for the 50th of a price of a Paul Newman
Try again…. I don’t own a single Rolex and my collection is quite probably worth 50% more than what I paid for it…. Just takes a bit more effort than getting on a waiting list…
But I don’t buy for that reason…. However, It just helps me ‘psychologically’ when investing in this hobby!
You can easily get swept away with the whole thing…. It is a bit bonkers
Price correction? Not any time soon…. Far more wealthy consumer driven people on the planet…
I can relate to some extent. The value of what you’re comfortable wearing seems to gradually get pushed as you get habituated to it. And it only makes any sense when considered as an asset that you could sell if needed. But I’ve never reached the point where the new prices of many watches I like seems like a sensible amount to have wrapped around my wrist on a daily basis, the figure has become too divorced from my reality. It’s all relative though and if I had a flat in Monaco to go with the watch I suppose wouldn’t give it a second thought.
I totally agree with your statement and feel / felt exactly the same.
Recently i picked up a Tudor BB58 and since owning it i have not even thought about it on my wrist until today, what i realised is that due to its low price point i do not have to worry or even think about it and that feels great.
I have come back round to the idea that a few watches at 1-3ish k is more enjoyable and less worrisome than one, two, a few at 5k plus.
Some of us don’t buy watches that are new! But yes, when considering new - PP, Rolex and special edition Omega have that sewn up…
I just buy what I like…. Which tends to be small, old and interesting!! …. I would not sell my Yema sous marine big eye Chrono for the £190 I paid for it!
I have just sold off the majority my collection as most were hardly ever worn and sitting in the house wearing a 4.2k IWC looking out of a window that needed replacing suddenly stopped making sense.
Sell them. They’re just watches and you are clearly bored. Buy a Grand Seiko quartz. The end...
After my father in law passed away earlier this year I was left his watch. It’s a sekonda so nowhere near the level of watches you can have but the value to me is priceless.
I started to think that having a couple of expensive watches (I had a SubC and a Panerai 312) was just an unnecessary extravagance. I decided to sell my Rolex and keep the Panerai (sort of defeats the object I suppose). However I also decided I wanted a nice dressy watch too.
Long story short, 2 weeks after selling my Rolex I have deposits on a Tudor GMT and BB58 and bought a Tudor Fastrider Black Shield. At best I wanted one decent dressy watch but have gone daft and spent money on watches I don’t need but want. I now want to get myself a Sub no date as well.
Sort of come to the conclusion I’m not ready to give up my ‘collecting’ yet.
Genuine question - what is it about the increase in value that stops you enjoying it? Is it the worry they will get damaged? Or stolen? They were not cheap watches when you bought them presumably.
Perhaps the novelty has worn off, but the beauty of watch collections is they have a value and can be cashed in if needed for whatever reason.
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Cash them in while you still can, things will change soon when the Instagram generation move on to something else.
But one thing I would say regarding your worry about it being a £10k Watch... surely that’s a moot point unless you sell it? If you buy it for £6k it’s a £6k investment you’re wearing not a £10k liability.
I would say even the rrp of these things is crazy and I stand at dealer windows in disbelief at the price of all watches really.
Get into vintage Seiko’s from the 60’s and 70’s. It was their golden era and they made some stunning watches and they’re still relatively cheap.
We’ve been brainwashed with brand names but honestly get over the snobbery and bragging factor and find something you enjoy rather than something a random nobody is going to be impressed by.
For me it is the fact they can draw unwanted attention and can send out the wrong message and be seen as flashy certainly when living in a big city and using public transport daily.
I also find sitting in meeting that i am constantly pulling my shirt cuff down as i feel uncomfortable to be wearing something so expensive.
You can still have a lot of fun as others have stated by collecting and enjoying different watches from a much lower price point. The Rolex rat race is madness, great for those who can source desirable models at list price, less so those forced to go the likes of WF and pay the premiums, often 100% or more.
It is certainly a good time to cash them in as it were, but consider watches from different brands that appeal but cost perhaps no more than £1.5k.
Selling the Rolex need not be the end of the hobby, just a change of direction.
While I'm delighted at your thoughtful honesty, I can't help feeling that there is a simple solution: pick your favourite one or two. The raise in value of all the others has paid for it. Forget what it cost and just decide that it's your watch and the price is utterly irrelevant. If the price crashes you still have a bloody good watch that you effectively got for free.
Simple answer is I enjoyed wearing them at a £5/6k price point knowing the market for them was stable and id nigh on break even if I ever had to sell them. They’ve increased by double on most of them and now I see them as £10k watches. £10k for a steel watch that I used to wear daily doesn’t sit well with me..
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I did it last year and sold up the Rolex collection with the exception of one vintage, banked the £50k and it is still sitting happily in the bank. Was no longer comfortable with that level of money tied up in steel watches and wearing them occasionally, not due to some safe queen nonsense but just because of lifestyle.
Still get the occasional urge to pick up a new watch but myself, probably like many people just shake my head in disbelief at the prices being asked by manufacturers and prices by the secondary market are comical. Appears now that buyers are accepting that £5k to £10k is now the norm for an average mass produced watch and I find that incomprehensible in today’s debt fuelled watch market.
Agree. At one point, it just stopped being fun. It's as if we used to play some amateur football and enjoy it, and now we're part of some game driven by sheiks and oligarchs.
I have a few interests; Watches, Audio, Road Bikes, Older Books, Mechanical Pencils, a few others...
I drift in and out. I haven't bought a watch in couple of years, focused on Audio at the moment.
I think you'll find its a 'collecting' trait that a lot of us have. If you do sell the watches you might just end up buying more.
I came to exactly the same conclusion about 5 years ago - just didn’t feel comfortable with all that money tied up in ‘trinkets’ and felt frankly a bit daft and flashy wearing something so valuable on my wrist. It just didn’t reflect who I am at all. The thrill was all in the chase, and having owned and flipped nearly every steel Rolex I came to the conclusion I can’t really like them all that much! - massively liberating tbh, I now wear a Casio nearly every day and own just 1 mechanical watch, a Seiko diver. Prices are crazy now - for the first time in ages I popped into a jewellers to look at a BB58 out of curiosity, tried on half a dozen different black bays, a Pelagos etc and was massively underwhelmed. I frankly can’t imagine ever spending more than £1000 on a watch now - even that seems crazy. I can’t see the interest returning actually - in fact I think my days on watch fora are numbered as I just don’t find anything new or interesting being discussed, it’s just rinse repeat of the same stuff with a big dose of extravagant spending and showing off. And I find that very boring!
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I jumped off the Rolex bandwagon some years ago as I will neither pay their stupidly inflated prices nor will I go to some patronising bloody AD and prostrate myself on his shop carpet and beg for the high favour of being allowed a place on his waiting list for a Rolex. *uck that for a game!
Well said, & I'm thinking along the same 'lines' myself. After years of collecting, wishing, wanting, you develop a mindset in my opinion that slews rationale. You stress, save, fret, for your pinpointed acquisition, whatever that is, & then the thing is put away to be worn occasionally, sitting nicely in a drawer/safe, so what's the point? I must start the cull!
People should do what gives them satisfaction/pleasure.
Personally I don't get what satisfaction people get in having just a few, very similar watches, based on a perception of value retention or ego stroking.
I gave away the only Rolex I ever owned, had no problem with that, I have given away other brand watches as well.
I treat watches as a hobby I currently have over 300 and get pleasure from the hunt, the acquisition, the initial rush, the ability to wear something completely different day to day etc. However, I decided a couple of years ago to reduce my collection and in the last year I have sold £18,000 worth, they cost me £7000, unfortunately I still keep acquiring more, I received sixteen just this week!
I can't seem to resist spotting watches that I know are well under priced and buying them. For instance I bought one a couple of weeks ago that I already owned, had that one already advertised for sale but couldn't resist the new one as it was well under priced. Someone coincidentally messaged me saying they wanted to buy the one I already had for sale (NOS and full set) but couldn't afford it, I then offered the one I had just bought (used but excellent) and he snapped my hand off for just over twice the price I had just paid.
Of course to do this sort of thing you need to invest time and effort and really get to know your market. If you costed all the time you spent at a per hour rate then things don't look as good but if those hours are a hobby then it is not a true expenditure.
I sold a watch this week, to someone who messaged me, on another forum, asking whether I would sell it to him. I agreed and he bought it for over ten times what I paid for it just over 2 years ago. He was really happy, he got a good deal actually and I was happy and I get to search for another such one.
I don't really think there is as much satisfaction to be got from just sticking your name down on a waiting list for a currently fashionable and desirable watch. I would constantly wonder if this was a bubble. If you bought for pleasure of ownership this wouldn't matter, if you bought for value it would. If bubbles burst and they always do at a point when real value gets massively out of line with 'investment' value, then you just can't get rid of it fast enough to stay ahead of the falling market.
Mitch
Therein lies your problem. I don't wear my watches at any "price point". I wear them for enjoyment, whether 1970s Citizen, vintage Heuer, or quartz Seiko. The value is unimportant once it is on my wrist. Sell all of them, find something that gives you pleasure. It can be done for a hundred quid, a thousand, whatever.
I may have mentioned this several years ago, but I "cashed out" of the majority of my collection one Christmas a few years into retirement. My wife (nine years younger) is still fighting the corporate battles, so I gave her a Christmas present that year containing $15,000 cash, which was a goodly share of my proceeds. I started my collection with a Heuer Daytona I had purchased new in 1976 for around $300. I sold it for about $1,500 just after the turn of the millennium, and used the proceeds to buy and sell used watches (mostly vintage). Although I siphoned off a bit of the profits to buy various other things I wanted, I eventually grew my collection to about $25,000 in value, with no additional cash used.
Similar to the OP, I couldn't see myself walking around in my jeans and henley (in retirement) wearing a rare 1970 GMT Master with fantastic patina and a gorgeous folded steel jubilee bracelet (among others watches)! That's when I pretty much bowed out. I still maintain a small watch collection, but the "crown jewel" these days is a vintage Ollech & Wajs Mirage auto/chrono. I did order a new black dial Vanguard, but a visual inspection will be needed to determine if it stays!
Do what makes you feel better and comfortable and what you think is the best use of your assets.
Certainly if there is no pleasure to be found in wearing those ‘expensive trinkets’, it is time to sell them. This is a hobby and the moment it stops being enjoyable, it is time to quit. If you still love watches, there are other brands and less expensive watches.
There’s quite an interesting array of watches and brands that made a premium for their buyers who bought at full retail. Off the top of my head recent examples -
Steinhart limited editions - frequently sell for 40% over RRP
Timex Pepsi - check sold prices on eBay - more than double RRP
Zodiac blue orange bezel from this years Basel
Blue Seiko alpinist
Tudor Harrods / Bucherer 10-15% mark up
Etc etc.
So they do exist....
I am going through this now, I am going to sell mine as I start to worry about damaging the damn things, oh and I want to buy an A110
Last edited by browjam; 22nd June 2019 at 08:02.
I can relate to this
Bought my first Rolex 34 years ago (still have it!) and have been lucky to have owned pretty much anything I’ve wanted - easy as I’ve never liked PP or AP!
Now have few left and not missing what I no longer have.
I can foresee hard times ahead but fortunate to be semi retired now And positioned such that I can retire “full time” any time I want.
Not sure carrying a large inventory of expensive watches into the next 5 years is a good idea, but hope I’m wrong.
Sinn?
Damasko?
There’s 2 good reasons not to need to pay too much for some quality kit- better than most will ever need
One problem for me is that these days, to put it bluntly, most sensibly priced mass market new watches look like complete tat. Now that’s a contentious statement I know, and there’s no need to tell me about all the exceptions, I’ve been here long enough to know about the better independent brands and their value for money. But walk into the average shop, and there’s a clear dividing line between watches that glow with an aura of quality and desirability, and the mountain of junk that’s bound for a land fill. And that dividing line now comes at an absurdly high price. The reason as ever probably lies with the value of the Swiss Franc following the financial crisis, which has effectively doubled the price of everything, and targeted watches towards the very rich in an increasingly polarised world. That leaves the rest of us feeling the ground has shifted beneath our feet.
The solution for me has always been to buy good pre-owned and vintage watches from the era before all this happened. Even cheap as chips 60s Seikos seem to glow with a sophistication and vintage charm that’s entirely lacking in most affordable new models. Another solution is to simply have a smaller collection. What I can’t face doing though, is walking away completely and selling all the beautiful ‘proper’ watches I was lucky enough to pick up before the world went crazy, and having a modern one for a sensible price instead, because the sensibly priced modern one won’t look anything like as good as it should for the price. I also don’t want to one day wistfully think, ‘I used to have a XXXX you know, sold it for some reason, could never get one again now’.
Been there, done that. I sold all my watches and kept only my 16610. It is the perfect watch for me. I bought that watch years ago for EUR 4.000. I think it's still a lot of money, but it's acceptable for me. I wouldn't pay the money they are asking right now as it doesn't feel right for me to pay EUR 7.000 for the watch (or trinket, love that wort :))
Keep just one watch that you really like which is acceptable money for you. I think that's the way to enjoy watches in the current (and unfortunatly, most likely the future) market.
I too have a few Rolex Subs/ EXII and a Tudor Sub,all bought for what can now be seen as a good price,if you can call several thousand Ks as a good price.But it is because they are now worth more and obviously better than leaving the cash in the bank.
I do often think it's gone crazy,and let's face it the component parts of a Rolex over a far far cheaper brand using the same grade ss etc etc cannot be that much greater.
Id assume as MOST things nowadays a lot of those parts will be mass produced anyway so costs won't be excessive,it's always going to be about branding it's as simple as that,and it works.
When the time comes I'll be doing just what your thinking of doing and use the cash for other more appropriate things for myself and Wife in our retirement.Ill probably still have a fair few watches I dare say but the more expensive will have to go.
14060..full set minter.
16600 everything bar papers/serviced
16610
EXII...Full set minter
Tudor 76100........These WILL go.
Last edited by P9CLY; 23rd June 2019 at 12:47.
Most fans are initially attracted to the mechanical complexity and ‘romanticism’ of quality watches; that’s what draws us in, makes us interested. Certainly not money . The recent price-inflation and scarcity for some models has obscured that basic truth, perhaps made us forget it.
But we live in a time of remarkable quality for luxury watches. Good timekeeping is a key sign of quality design and construction...and watches are more accurate than they have ever been.
A basic Rolex has a timekeeping guarantee well beyond Cosc standards, so do Omega and others.They also come with exceptionally long guarantees.
We should remember, and celebrate, that. Mechanical watches have been technically obsolete for half-a-century. Yet we live in a golden age.
Remarkable.
Last edited by paskinner; 22nd June 2019 at 15:21.
Fair enough OP - can see your logic. I'm heading the other direction.
Ive gone through a similar thought process and share alot of the sentiments with the OP. However, this has now led me to go back to my roots and has reminded me of why I loved watches in the first place and what I value. I value craftsmanship, design, the research & development that has gone into producing the watch, the history of the brand, the potential future direction the brand is heading it etc
Ive gone through my share of desireable SS pieces, 5711, daytona etc But now I feel that the complicated precious metal watches are the undervalued gems.
For example I recently acquired a Patek Philippe 5110P, a patented WORLD TIMER complication watch in Platinum, full set for less than what a SS daytona goes for!! Madness!! When one thing is overvalued, there are gems out there that are severely under valued imo and it can be fun to find these.
Completely understand, I only have a very modest collection of three but find myself wearing my Sub less and less favouring my Seamaster and SMP 300.
I feel a little conspicuous wearing my Rolex these days, not least because it is so easily recognised together with its value.
I think the last time I wore it abroad was in 2005 in Dubai and later in Canada. I wear my SMP 300 on holiday now as its still a nice watch but does not attract attention.
Where to start in responding to this? In terms of a easing of supply and a price correction then this is certain, at some point. “This to shall pass” etc. Everything is impermanent, but when this correction will happen is anyone’s guess; next year, 10 years from now, next recessionary cycle?
Should you cash out? I don’t think the OP could be blamed for a partial cash out, but I would at least keep the favourite.
If you don’t wear them, because they are so expensive, then the only reason to keep them is as an asset. That is a bit sad, but pragmatic. No one knows the asset future, but as I said there will be rebalancing, at some point..
What is a WIS to do for new acquisitions and general interest?
I wouldn’t buy any new Rolex significantly above rrp, but I’m fortunate that I don’t want any. I appreciate the value can be quite inhibitory in terms of wearing them.
As Itsguy said, nearly all the accessibly priced watches are “tat” and of no interest to a WIS. I still think there is interest in the pre-owned market, my last two purchases from Chrono24 have both been quite enchanting, and about £1000 each. One of those was very vintage and the other is a brand I love, but one that is a bit unloved and good value pre-owned.
Dave
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I’ll wear them for you
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