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Thread: Auction, is this a Milsub?

  1. #1
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Auction, is this a Milsub?

    Seen this lovely 5513 in a auction catalogue this morning, I then realised, is it an actual Milsub but with service Mercedes hands and standard bezel?

    It has the solid bar case for nato straps and military case back. It was owned by a local diver who lived in the Hampshire area where I believe most Milsubs were issued, he has other watches for sale at auction and itís mentioned he was a Navy diver in one of those listings..

    If itís the real deal this watch will go crazy money!!







    https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...lot-image-link

  2. #2
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Wasnít Humbert and Ellis the auctioneer who knowingly sold a fake sub having been advised on a number of occasions by Haywood that it was indeed a fake?

  3. #3
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Wasnít Humbert and Ellis the auctioneer who knowingly sold a fake sub having been advised on a number of occasions by Haywood that it was indeed a fake?
    Yes, that was the double red SeaDweller, this is a completely different auction house - Hannams..

  4. #4
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Sorry, my mistake. When I clicked the link to the saleroom, the H&E Watch was the first that came up. I realised after replying that it showed the watch I last looked st rather than the one you were linking to.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    The fellows auction today has what looks to me to be a nice 5512/3 ft first with an estimate of £7-£10k but Iím no expert. Lot 310

    Theyíve also a (not quite) root beer gmt with an estimate of up to £4600 which seems pretty cheap and a yellow gold DD for £3600 top estimate.

    Of course, thereís another 33.54% to add on to the hammer price which brings them up a bit!

  6. #6
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I am not an expert but I would say that is the real deal.
    The lack of Milsub Bezel and standard hands will hurt the price a tad I think but it would still be worth a small fortune.
    It will be interesting to see what it goes for.

  7. #7
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, Iím out.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, Iím out.
    LOL

  9. #9
    Master
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    Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

    Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

    H

  10. #10
    Really nice, worth checking how the auction goes.

  11. #11
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

    Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

    H
    I did read somewhere that hands and bezels were often swapped out once the watch was out of service, true or not I donít know but might be the reason behind this Milsub.

    Whoever wins the auction could create an uber rare watch at the pinnacle of vintage Rolex, if they could get hold of a set of sword hands and original bezel, that is a very big IF!!

  12. #12
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    I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if thatís correct it isnít exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if thatís correct it isnít exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.
    I think the same figure was quoted for the second hand on its own, but logically who would have spares?

  14. #14
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    I might be wrong but...
    I seem to remember reading somewhere (MWR?) that Rolex may have replacement (new) 60 minute bezels for use on genuine Milsubs that pass through their service centres.
    Obviously I might be wrong, I often am and it would be interesting to hear from the experts on the matter.
    If the bezel rumour is true do they have hands?
    Either way it is a potentially very sought after watch and it will be interesting to see what it fetches. If I had not under archived so much in my life I might have put in a bid. 😃

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The glass is too scratched for me, and for that reason, Iím out.
    I bet the battery's run out too. Not worth it, imo.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Could well be correct, though parts have been swapped out even if it is.

    Would be good to find out if that is the original case-back that belongs with the mid-case, as they were frequently muddled up on the bench at Herstmonceux.

    H
    Herstmonceux H?

    Is there something I should know about the village I live near?

  17. #17
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Auction, is this a Milsub?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I recall somebody bandying around a figure of £10k for a genuine insert, if thatís correct it isnít exactly pocket money, then you have to source the sword hands, Eek.
    The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!
    And all sold.

  19. #19
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loupe View Post
    And all sold.
    Are they? I didnít know what happened to them as it went a bit quiet after the initial circus surrounding the purchase..

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Are they? I didnít know what happened to them as it went a bit quiet after the initial circus surrounding the purchase..
    Yes, was offered one but didnít jump straight away.
    Was mulling over trading a red sub and LVC for the broken insert.

  21. #21
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loupe View Post
    Yes, was offered one but didnít jump straight away.
    Was mulling over trading a red sub and LVC for the broken insert.
    That's crazy that a broken insert is the same value as those two iconic watches.

    I wonder what he sold them all for as I think he said he was hoping they would pay for a deposit on a house - more like pay for the house outright!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Herstmonceux H?

    Is there something I should know about the village I live near?
    See description @

    https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

    or

    https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

    'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diverís wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolexís UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navyís chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    Had this discussion on hands the other day and if you could find them then you are looking at circa 20k for the pairs as mentioned earlier bu the ďRunnerĒ

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom-P View Post
    See description @

    https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

    or

    https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

    'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diverís wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolexís UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navyís chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.
    That second link is very informative, thanks for sharing.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom-P View Post
    See description @

    https://www.watchcentre.com/product/...iner-5513/2100

    or

    https://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/...james-dowling/

    'As they were quite different to the normal 5513; they were given a specific reference number, 5517, and they then travelled a very circuitous route before they were strapped on to a diverís wrist. Although the watches were ordered by the MoD, they did not go directly to the ministry when they arrived in the UK. First they went to Rolexís UK headquarters at Bexley in Kent, south of London. From there they were sent to Herstmonceux Castle in Sussex, this was the new site of the Royal Greenwich Observatory who had moved there in the 1950s when industrial pollution in the skies over London made their work in the capital difficult. Herstmonceux Castle was the centre of the Navyís chronometer section; known as the Hydrographic Survey. Here the new Submariners were tested, both for accuracy and for their waterproof abilities; and only when they had proved themselves were they then sent back to Rolex' etc.
    Thanks Tom, thatís really interesting. The Royal Greenwich Observatory moved to Cambridge and is now Herstmonceux Science centre. Itís separate from the castle (which is now a study centre for a Canadian university) and is open to the public six or seven days a week.

    I live about 1/4 mile away from the castle and pass it every day and I never even knew!!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    The guy who spent £400 on Omega parts a few months ago through eBay to then find in the lot he had several original Milsub bezels, he would be good to contact if you bought the watch, he was quoted over £40k for one bezel though!
    Sorry to hijack. I've not heard about this, does anyone have a link with more info?

  27. #27
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Auction, is this a Milsub?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    Sorry to hijack. I've not heard about this, does anyone have a link with more info?
    Here is the eBay listing -
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Watchmake...app-cvip-panel

    And here is the thread on TRF

    https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=647345

    Enjoy..
    Last edited by murkeywaters; 20th June 2019 at 22:03.

  28. #28
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Anybody know the final selling price of this watch as the auction has withheld the details?

  29. #29
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    I'm curious about this too!

    They also had a rather nice omega seamaster military on there too!

  30. #30
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Anybody know the final selling price of this watch as the auction has withheld the details?
    Seem to recall it was either 46k or 47k.

  31. #31
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andym View Post
    I'm curious about this too!

    They also had a rather nice omega seamaster military on there too!
    Yes that Omega was lovely, also had a nice military Precista, I forgot about the auction unfortunately..

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