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Thread: Expedition prototype

  1. #151
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    My Laco B-Uhr on original strap.



    Eddie


    Oh! you were finished well allow me to retort.

    #touchť

    :-)

  2. #152
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post

    ...but that is not something you want on a watch strap.
    Just my opinion, of course.
    Dave
    The PRS-9 Czech Military came with a roller buckle but I soon discovered that I couldn't live with it. The idea is good but in practice it looks like a children's satchel-strap buckle.

  3. #153

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    It will be difficult to resist this watch, it is very handsome, particularly on the leather. A brilliant job of walking the fine line between creating something genuinely new with reference to revered watches of the past. It also leaves room for a manual wind with sub seconds in the future......!

    I would definitely be interested in a manual wind with sub-seconds at "6" !

  5. #155
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engi View Post
    I would definitely be interested in a manual wind with sub-seconds at "6" !
    I'd be interested in finding a non-Chinese movement that did this.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  6. #156
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    Lug spacing?

    Am bying some NATO straps, so i would order for this one also.....

  7. #157
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robousek View Post
    Am bying some NATO straps, so i would order for this one also.....
    It should be the same as the 36mm Everest... 20mm.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engi View Post
    I would definitely be interested in a manual wind with sub-seconds at "6" !
    Iíd love to see this too!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #159
    If you want a sub-seconds watch then the Smiths Mk X is an handsome and interesting beast.

    Made in Cheltenham in WW2 for the RAF it is the only British-made wartime wristwatch

    Case is a Dennison 13322, fixed bars

    Movement is a forerunner of the Smiths "1215" (12''' and 15 jewels) with a 13''' baseplate and hole for centre seconds (as was the original intention)

    Dial and hands clearly owe a lot to LeCoultre (Smiths' top man Robert Lenoir was an ex-Jaeger boss)

    I believe that 11 of these are known to exist: 9 subseconds, 2 centre seconds. Two are marked (i.e. issue engravings, 6B 1942) the rest have sterile backs -- either scrubbed (rough finish) or never issued (smooth / polished)







    More info here: http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...dy-Smiths-Mk-X

    Thread on these here:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...W2-for-the-RAF

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I'd be interested in finding a non-Chinese movement that did this.

    Eddie

    Sellita SW216-1

    Standard




    Refined




    ETA Peseaux 7001

    Last edited by Engi; 22nd June 2019 at 22:38.

  11. #161
    Journeyman redhed18's Avatar
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    Expedition prototype

    Miyota 8245 ?
    See
    https://wornandwound.com/review/mara...ilot-hands-on/

    Update: sorry this is small seconds at 4:00 movement ... bah!

    You can get some of the 9xxx movements with small seconds but they all have Date and power reserve that would have to be obscured.
    e.g.
    Last edited by redhed18; 23rd June 2019 at 00:20.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engi View Post
    Sellita SW216-1

    Standard




    Refined




    ETA Peseaux 7001

    Are there non date movements?


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  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by horror_logical View Post
    Are there non date movements?


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    The Sellita has date, but it can be hidden, the ETA has no date

  14. #164
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    The Sellita 216 would work if people didn't mind the ghost date position but the ETA/Peseux 7001 is a small movement and not particularly robust.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    The Sellita 216 would work if people didn't mind the ghost date position but the ETA/Peseux 7001 is a small movement and not particularly robust.

    Eddie

    Thanks Eddie, I believe we could start thinking from these 2 movements. ETA in any case is used in many watches (Stowa, Montblanc etc.).

  16. #166
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post


    What would be the size of the proposed homage? I believe the size of these Smiths Mk X was something like 32mm.

  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    What would be the size of the proposed homage? I believe the size of these Smiths Mk X was something like 32mm.
    Case diameter is 33.5mm (W10 is about 35.25)

    The Mk X wear large due to minimal bezel and light-coloured dial, giving it "open face" look.

    WW2 (1943?) Smiths Mk X next to a 1967 RAF ("6B") version of the W10; father and son, one served in the age of pistons and props, the other in the age of supersonic jets.


  18. #168
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Case diameter is 33.5mm (W10 is about 35.25)

    The Mk X wear large due to minimal bezel and light-coloured dial, giving it "open face" look.........
    Is the world ready for 33.5mm? I am just beginning to get used to 36mm.

    The easiest option would be to use the 36mm of the PRS29-AM and call it something like PRS29-Mk X. It would be interesting to see what others have to say about the size issue.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Eddie, on the brown leather it looks superb, the final vintage touch especially with the roller buckle. Totally brilliant work.
    Agreed,I like roller buckles I think less strain on springbars.

  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    Agreed,I like roller buckles I think less strain on springbars.
    ??? How does that work?

    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Is the world ready for 33.5mm? I am just beginning to get used to 36mm.

    The easiest option would be to use the 36mm of the PRS29-AM and call it something like PRS29-Mk X. It would be interesting to see what others have to say about the size issue.
    Agreed.

  21. #171
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Would the hands on the Mk X have originally been luminous filled?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Would the hands on the Mk X have originally been luminous filled?

    Eddie
    Good question. Almost certainly not. Smiths did do some sword hands with lune in-fill for their first run of retail civilian watches in 1947 & '48 but these also had luminous numerals (it only really makes for both hands and dial to be lumed).

    These hands are very very similar to the (J)LC handsets of the same period, except they were solid not skeleton. Both are blind steel and the same (or very nearly the same) size; whether the canon pinions the same I don't know so I'm not sure if the two are interchangeable.

    The screwed-on dial (at 12 and 6) is another (J)LC "tell"; whether Smiths copied or bought-in I don't know. Copied in-house I would say by the quality of the printing compared with their Swiss counterparts.

    The dial (and baseplate of the moment to which it affixes) is 13''' whereas the rest of the watch is 12'''. That might have been done to meet the MoS spec sheet or to allow the use of (J)LC dials or copies thereof.

    Interesting, too, that they are completely sterile (apart from the Dennison inside the caseback). Whether they were trying pass as (J)LC or anonymous to disguise their provenance (and therefore the fact that we had on-shore wristwatch making capabilities) is an interesting question, bearing in mind that RAF watches could easily fall (literally) into enemy hands.

    Finally, another interesting fact: the jewels for these were smuggled from Switzerland via Lisbon in a specially made suit. (They were sewn into the lining of an MA1 operative called Ted Pitman. After the fall of France and before America entered the war we had no access to synthetic rubies and no capacity to make them. Smiths eventually set up a furnace at Carfin in Scotland to turn aluminium oxide into the much-coveted jewels, a place requisitioned to be out of the range of the V1 flying bombs.)

    For more info on the smuggling see James Nye's "A Long Time in Making: The History of Smiths" p. 103

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...q=suit&f=false
    Last edited by Rev-O; 23rd June 2019 at 19:29.

  23. #173
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    I agree the Dennison 13322 case that the Mk X is in wears large, well beyond 33.5mm. I don't really notice much difference visually from my Smiths W10 or even the Hamilton 6B. Omega and Longines also used the case, I have even seen an IWC cal 89 in a 9ct gold Dennison 13322 and a Movado triple calendar would you believe. A great case design.

  24. #174
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    Iíd like to see it in itís original case size 33.5mm although iím sure many will disagree.


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  25. #175
    The case of the Explorer in 36mm is perfect IMO for this project with small second at "6" !

  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Engi View Post
    The case of the Explorer in 36mm is perfect IMO for this project with small second at "6" !
    Is that the same case as the PRS-29 AM and W10?

    (I've handled the Explorer but not the AM.)

    And would we want fixed bars?

  27. #177
    Eddie I love you

    ...
    BUBI 0_0

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engi View Post
    The case of the Explorer in 36mm is perfect IMO for this project with small second at "6" !
    Iíd happily settle for this case, with shoulderless spring bars I reckon!


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  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    My Laco B-Uhr on original strap.



    Eddie
    You have a very good point there Eddie, but I might add that the B-Uhr, effectively being a clock and for use outside a very thick sheepskin coat is a bit of a special case.

    Dave

  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Some of you will recall (and possibly still wish to forget) my introductory post on this forum which was basically a page-long screed questioning why a watch intended to pay tribute to Smiths single greatest historical claim to fame was essentially a 1016 with a sapphire crystal and the word Smiths printed on it. As well-made as the watch clearly was, it just didn't make any sense to me.

    But this, this is different. This is exactly what I was hoping for. You've taken everything that was great about those 50's Smiths expedition watches and made something just a little bit better suited to everyday wear: bigger (but not too big), shockproof, waterproof, legible in the dark, and without that awful chrome plating that, let's face it, is just going to rub off on your way up the Eiger.

    Bravo, Eddie. This and the PRS-29 is easily your best work. I cannot wait for this to go on sale. Seriously, mate, this is brilliant.
    Last edited by Waveman; 25th June 2019 at 15:03.

  31. #181
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Would the hands on the Mk X have originally been luminous filled?

    Eddie


    In the link below (halfway down) there is a civilian Mk X (on the left above) also with skeleton hands...

    LeCoultre-Smiths Mark X-Jaeger LeCoultre (c 1943-1947)
    https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...-(c-1943-1947)

    Pity that all the other pics are missing.

  32. #182
    I'll see your two and raise you one



    Source: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...miths-content)
    Last edited by Rev-O; 25th June 2019 at 17:44.

  33. #183
    Eddie sent me the pre-production prototype. The only differences between it and final, finished version will be 1.) all text bigger (+10%) and 2.) better bracelet.

    I've just sent him this message:

    "First impressions: the colour of the seconds hand is wrong and the gap between DE and LUXE is too big. But actually the colour of yours is nicer (the originals are an odd sort of orangey red like cheap tinned tomato soup) and there should be a gap between DE and LUXE because they are separate words so I actually like yours better. The "SMITHS" is fine, too: there's so much variation between originals that while some look on the small side there are plenty that look too big. I can see that +10% or even 15% would be a good addition but I'm beginning to think that the suggestion of +20% would not be an improvement. So the Smiths as it is on the prototype is fine, not too small. The three lines of text on the lower half do need to be a tad bigger, but again not much. The shoulderless spring bars that the strap was (sorry! -- yes, that's WAS) on are a nice touch.

    All in all this is the best TF watch I've seen. I'm trying hard to find some area where it drops marks, just so I have something negative to say just to give a "balanced" review but I actually can't think of anything. I never give anything 10/10 -- and such reviews alway look either lazy or suspicious as nothing is perfect -- but this might be it.

    My daily wear either is one of your old PRS-3 (the CWC diver homage) or a Rolex OP. This might replace both as robust, rugged, accurate and altogether adorable re-make of the A453/404. I shall carrying on wearing it until I can see some way to fault it but that might take a while!"

  34. #184
    Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    So itís okay then?

  35. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    So itís okay then?
    If you like that sort of thing

  36. #186
    Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    If you like that sort of thing
    I do

  37. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    I do
    Me too!

  38. #188
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    Iím a convert.

  39. #189
    Master
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    Lucky man,can you post some photos?

  40. #190
    The overall impression is of seeing an old girlfriend who's aged very well indeed or maybe the curvaceous daughter of a petite 1950s film star who has all her mother's good looks and a bit more about her physically and intellectually. A very pretty AND practical piece.

    Pics to follow

  41. #191
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Sorry if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick but is it 35.5mm?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Sorry if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick but is it 35.5mm?
    eh, 36 mm, same case just like the black dialled version, I think.

  43. #193
    Some quick and crappy iphone shots next to a A453











    Wrist shots








  44. #194
    Apprentice Sandpiper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Some quick and crappy iphone shots next to a A453
    If they are 'crappy' shots then it must be really stunning in reality because to me it looks incredible.

    The waiting time is going to kill me.
    Last edited by Sandpiper; 27th June 2019 at 18:48.

  45. #195
    Even more convinced that the DE_______LUXE doesnít look right.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCasper View Post
    Even more convinced that the DE_______LUXE doesn’t look right.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm in the opposite camp. Any closer and it'd start to look like one word.

    What does concern me is the 'strength' of the printing of the lower text. It looks washed out in comparison with the logo, especially the '24 jewels' text. Maybe it's just the photos. Dunno.

  47. #197
    Master OliverCD's Avatar
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    If its now in production, it is what it is! :)

    I prefer the beefed up numerals of the original, but the TF is looking like to be one of the classics of the brand.

  48. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by OliverCD View Post
    If its now in production, it is what it is! :)

    I prefer the beefed up numerals of the original, but the TF is looking like to be one of the classics of the brand.
    I’ve wondered about that but prefer the slimmer ones otherwise they look a bit . . . homemade? Amateur? Fisher Price? Smiths dials aren’t, imho, their strongest point with the possible exception of the very early ones (1947-51) and the W10. There are exceptions (a gilt printed one, the Bensons) but most are charming, cottage industry, and cute at best.

    The overall look is Smiths with a dash of
    Nomos

    All text will be +10% on the final version so the three lines on the lower half should stand out more abs the gap between DE and LUXE will be decreased.

    Edit: look at the spacing of the numerals on the original! The 7 and 8 are too high on the right, like a Tory drug user. Also that bloody cuff-shredding roller on the buckle is easy to remove
    Last edited by Rev-O; 27th June 2019 at 16:05.

  49. #199
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    Iím not sure how many Eddie will produce but would suggest however many it wonít be enough. Whilst it is not how timefactors operate I am many of these would be snapped up on pre order.

    I have never wanted to own a 36mm watch before but I do want one of these.

  50. #200
    Right, I'm leaving this forum. I'm going to block Eddie and ignore any emails etc and forget to return the watch.

    What Smiths De Luxe? I have so many. Time Factors? Nope, never heard of them.

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