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Thread: Paint Damage to Car after Service in Main Dealers

  1. #1
    Master TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    Paint Damage to Car after Service in Main Dealers

    Looking for advice here or experience of similar nature...

    The wifes car went into the main dealer for a basic service (oil and filters). Car does very very low mileage, less than 25k miles in 6 years of ownership. I normally just pop it in for standard service every 18months.
    I wanted to keep the logbook stamped by main dealer as I reckon the car will hold some value as a low miler with full main dealer service history.

    Anyway, this time the car was given a 'courtesy wash' and low and behold when I got the car back to the house I notice theres about 12 patches after appearing on the front bumper and bonnet where the lacquer has flaked off. The patches are elongated, most are about 3inch long and about 1/2inch wide like little jagged strips.

    It looks bad. I photographed each of these immediately when I got home and complained to the dealership. I am certain someone went gung-ho with a power washer and caused this damage. I am 100% certain this is new damage and the flaked off areas are very 'fresh' in appearance.

    I wanted this repaired but the main dealer is now saying that it is standard stone chip damage, was present before service and they are muddying the waters by saying the car was subject to a previous non main dealer repair which is just something random they have made up.

    If the dispute continues and it looks like it will I think I will just go to the small claims route.

    I reckon the bumper and bonnet need to be sanded & resprayed and I assume this is about £500 to £750 in value ?

    My worry is that if it goes to small claims it will be my word against theirs and I'm not sure what happens then.

    Any thoughts or advice ?

  2. #2

    Mmmm

    Do you have a recent pic of the car before it went in? Does the dealership have cctv?
    A well worded letter via signed for delivery to the dealer principal with a cut off date for rectification or you’ll go small claims court with your evidence

    That’ll be a tight one but the dealers won’t Es t the hassle and if they don’t show you’ll win

    The crux is you need a before and after really or it’s your word against theirs in my untrained eyes

    Do you norm hand wash your car?
    You could also do with an “expert witness” statement - perhaps a friendly body shop could comment for you in writing ?

  3. #3
    I struggle to see how they'd removed factory paint with a pressure washer tbh.

  4. #4
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I struggle to see how they'd removed factory paint with a pressure washer tbh.
    This^^^^^ if it is the case that it's related to the pressure washer then the likelihood will be that other cars are damaged also.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  5. #5
    Craftsman
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    Had a similar problem with a BMW main dearer in Glasgow, over aggressive power wash at a routine service. Damage was to the painted (alloy?) door mirror mounts and the two near side alloy wheels.

    The dealer was coming up with all sorts of excuses and I was basically getting nowhere with them. I then went straight to BMW UK who obviously had a word with the service manager at the dealership who then sorted things out.

    The car was a fIve year old BMW approved used car that I had purchased three years previously from the dealer in question and I suspect that the problem was caused by some poor prep/paint when they had originally prepared the car for sale.

    Always worth escalating these issues if you can

    regards
    grant

  6. #6
    Master TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I struggle to see how they'd removed factory paint with a pressure washer tbh.
    Its more of the laquer thats been removed in those strip shaped patterns, so you have these small strips of matt finish. The bumper (colour coded) is the main area.

    I feel certain its down to pressure washer as the shape of these matt spots.

    I dont want to post photos at the moment as the car would be recognisable if this escalates.

    I dont have any decent frontal photos of the vehicle (pre this service).
    Last edited by TimeThoughts; 15th June 2019 at 18:25.

  7. #7
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    From what you describe, it is the lacquer that has come away not the paint underneath. I would guess there have been previous stone chips to the lacquer which have caused this protective film to be pierced. I would suggest that the garage has cleaned your car with a pressure washer. This will cause the water to get under the lacquer where it is chipped and, by the force of the water, enlarge the hole. To repair this the bumper will have to be removed, rubbed down, and re sprayed. It is a tricky one to solve with the garage. The damage has probably been there before they had it but by washing it they have made it more noticeable. Modern water based stuff is not as hard as the older paints. If I were you I would just get it resprayed with perhaps a good will price reduction by the garage and in future ask them not to wash it.
    Last edited by Kaffe; 15th June 2019 at 18:40.

  8. #8
    Journeyman recaptured's Avatar
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    Honda did the same to me, I only went in for a safety recall aswell !


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  9. #9
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    Bmw dealer service dept did that to us too. A single big Scratch on the rear bumper right side from washing I reckon. Probably dropped the cloth on the floor. Other areas were ok.
    Whats worse is that we complained on the phone first which we shouldnt have done. They asked us to come in which we did. They had quickly updated the car inspection diagram with lots of crosses across the whole bumper. Other parts of the car diagram were drawn with single small crosses so its obvious what they did.
    We complained and questioned what they did and the manager got verbal and loud about it.
    We complained to the dealership management who showed no interest
    Last edited by bins; 15th June 2019 at 19:03.

  10. #10
    Master
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    One reason I always state “do not wash” on the work order, even at the dealer I worked at, some of these bigger p. Washers produce high pressures and as said will get beneath paint and strip away lacquer, although the person doing the cleaner should be paying attention and see it happening. Or, they have sprayed the wrong cleaner on the paintwork and it has damaged the paint allowing the washer an easier job of ripping the finish of the paint, some wheel cleaners can be very nasty if not diluted properly and asked on something other than wheels.

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    If you get really lucky the bored guy on the pressure lance will hold it close enough to fill your headlights with water as well.

  12. #12
    I would press them hard on this. The threat of legal action will probably get them to back down. As you say, for a £500-700 respray (and that's not trade prices) it would not be worth their while contesting. Sorry to hear about this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitfitter View Post
    One reason I always state “do not wash” on the work order, even at the dealer I worked at, some of these bigger p. Washers produce high pressures and as said will get beneath paint and strip away lacquer, although the person doing the cleaner should be paying attention and see it happening. Or, they have sprayed the wrong cleaner on the paintwork and it has damaged the paint allowing the washer an easier job of ripping the finish of the paint, some wheel cleaners can be very nasty if not diluted properly and asked on something other than wheels.

    This, I never let the muppets clean my cars.
    Complimentary wash destroyed your paint, lesson learned.
    Next time make it clear, you may need to be very firm, Do not wash!

  14. #14
    Whilst I'm kind of on the side of the dealer in as much that it's likely to have been either caused by poor paint or that it was stone chip damage that started the ball rolling, they should have really walked around the car with you when you dropped it off on the day,
    Most dealers do this as standard practise now due to the amount of times this kind of thing happens, it was almost a weekly occurrence where I last worked. A dirty car hides a multitude of issues which to the customer stand out like a soar thumb once washed. Only last week I found a small dink on the nsf door of my car which I hadn't seen before I washed it.

    A lot of dealers have a car silhouette on the backs of their job cards ( squashed frog ) and mark any damage before work is started, of course this should be done with you when dropping the car off.
    Pop in unannounced and ask to see the job card and see if they've utilised it....I'm guessing you probably already signed it? You never know somone might have checked around the car and said it was ok and marked as such on the job pack.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 16th June 2019 at 09:32.

  15. #15
    Craftsman
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    A power/pressure washer will not remove paintwork unless there is an underlying fault ie stonechips or other damage to the lacquer so not the fault of the dealer but also good advice not to ever get the car washed by the dealer if you care about maintaining the finish

  16. #16
    Master
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    I guess, almost all cars have stone chips. It doesn’t mean you want it made worse though.

  17. #17
    Master
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    Brand new car - first service - came back with very little lacquer on the boot lid.

    Service manage said "it's a fault" - not our problem basically.

    I went ballistic, long story, numpty had used hot water in the jet wash and the edges (where a lot of lacquer faults are) just lifted.

    Resprayed at their expense.

    Older car different dealer - they had washed the car. As I approached the toll booth on the way back home, I lowered the window down with grinding sounds and discovered loads of grit in the window down rubber...... but what could I say. Grrrr !

    I always have do not wash intructions now.

    B

  18. #18
    Master
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    Have you had the car from new? If not it’s most likely it’s been resprayed in those areas previously. As others have mentioned a jet wash shouldn’t be blasting off original paint otherwise every car that left the dealer would be without paint.

    It’s an unfortunate situation if they’ve caused it to come off but I can see their POV if it’s been previously painted and it flew off with a wash.


    I’d have it looked at by a painter, if they say it’s been previously painted then I’d suck it up. It could have come off any time in the future, 𝐓𝐞𝐬𝐜𝐨 car wash etc. If they say it’s original and shouldn’t have come off then go after the dealer but the chances of that are slim I’d say.

    Also, did you check it over before taking it? People rarely look at their stuff until someone else has had it or been near it. Can you really say 100% the mrs hadn’t had it washed at Tesco (for example) a month previous and nobody has scrutinised it since?

    I’ve been on the receiving end of someone saying I caused damage to their property when working on it, luckily for me I’d taken pics before the work and was able to show them (with the date in my phone) and it’s something I always do now. Can’t say I got much of an apology either.


    Sorry, going off on a tangent rant..

    Having been in or around the motor trade my whole life I can say it’s amazing how often people are certain a problem “wasn’t there before it was worked on” It not like it’s in the dealers interest to damage customer cars. Some people you deal with just blow your mind (not suggesting you’re that bad) I don’t know if it’s just a lack of understanding or they’re just the always right types but it’s a thankless job to have sometimes.

    My favourites are the ones that ring back days/weeks/months later with the old “yes, you did the brakes on my car and ever since there’s been a noise from the engine (or something else unrelated). Or “you did a service recently (3 months ago) and now the engine light is on!” Or they book it in “for a service” and drop a list of defects on you like an oil change is going to make the car brand new. You then tell them everything wrong & get spoken to like you’re going to rip them off or something “but I’ve only had it just over a year (10 year old car) I think it’s time to sell it, what’s a more reliable car?” Like brakes/shocks/tyres/bushes should last forever.

    With some customers once you take on their car you’re basically responsible for any future defect or wear & tear item and supposed to be sympathetic like it’s your fault.

  19. #19
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liner33 View Post
    A power/pressure washer will not remove paintwork unless there is an underlying fault ie stonechips or other damage to the lacquer so not the fault of the dealer but also good advice not to ever get the car washed by the dealer if you care about maintaining the finish
    A pressure washer can strip the paint from the metal, or separate lacquer from basecoat, particularly if someone has been heavy handed with the mixing of the detergent/traffic film remover. There are strict instructions as to which nozzles and more importantly, how far from the paintwork, to use pressure cleaners. The modern paints (environmentally friendly) struggle to stay on the metal and many in the car finishing trade have described them as "unfit for purpose"! The "hammer" effect of the water/detergent spray can cause resonance in the material of the car body and literally shake the finish off!

  20. #20
    Master
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    I, too, insist that the car is not washed when it goes to the dealer although I’m quite happy to let them clean the interior.

    Not had any problems yet but just don’t want to tempt fate.

  21. #21
    Master TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    OP here...

    Had a good look again in the daylight this AM.

    Theres some good comments above and I now think what has happened is that small stone chip indents to the lacquer that were minor have been vastly widened/elongated by that dealers clean. This is reinforced by the lack of similar damage away from the cars frontal area.

    Theres two sides to the story I think...

    So, I never asked for this clean and the clean has made things look worse.
    But, the dealer was probably trying to impress the customer by giving him/her a complimentary wash.

    The only thing thats getting my back up now is the hardline he took with me. I'll think about it over the coming day or 2.

    Best advice given above is the 'do not wash' request.

  22. #22
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    A pressure washer can strip the paint from the metal, or separate lacquer from basecoat, particularly if someone has been heavy handed with the mixing of the detergent/traffic film remover. There are strict instructions as to which nozzles and more importantly, how far from the paintwork, to use pressure cleaners. The modern paints (environmentally friendly) struggle to stay on the metal and many in the car finishing trade have described them as "unfit for purpose"! The "hammer" effect of the water/detergent spray can cause resonance in the material of the car body and literally shake the finish off!
    If the paint is compromised then yes but normal paint with a normal pressure water WILL NOT remove paint , I can put my hand in front of my 130bar pressure washer and it doesnt even hurt , also no detergent will strip paint even neat , nothing designed for use on cars anyhow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehtWNLDPBt0

  23. #23
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    This is why I always insist on doing a walk round of my car before leaving it (with any imperfections. Other and signed for).

    Hope you get it sorted.

  24. #24
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    they should have really walked around the car with you when you dropped it off on the day,
    Most dealers do this as standard practise now due to the amount of times this kind of thing happens, it was almost a weekly occurrence where I last worked.
    I’ve had cars serviced at Audi, Mercedes, Skoda and Citroen main dealers and none of them have ever walked me around my car prior to doing any kind of work on them.

  25. #25
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liner33 View Post
    If the paint is compromised then yes but normal paint with a normal pressure water WILL NOT remove paint , I can put my hand in front of my 130bar pressure washer and it doesnt even hurt , also no detergent will strip paint even neat , nothing designed for use on cars anyhow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehtWNLDPBt0
    I have over 20 years of experience dealing with fleet vehicles. They will strip paint to the metal if the wrong nozzle is used (easily done by inexperienced staff). Traffic film remover does strip paint, especially in hot wash situations (you can see the colour run!). The OP does not know what type of power washer was used. They can also strip skin from hands!!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK6eZKZm-tA
    Last edited by tixntox; 17th June 2019 at 22:24.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tixntox View Post
    I have over 20 years of experience dealing with fleet vehicles. They will strip paint to the metal if the wrong nozzle is used (easily done by inexperienced staff). Traffic film remover does strip paint, especially in hot wash situations (you can see the colour run!). The OP does not know what type of power washer was used. They can also strip skin from hands!!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK6eZKZm-tA
    In 32 years in the motortrade I've never seen a single car where paint has been removed from a vehicle where there hasn't been an underlying problem. I don't think removing old paint from a floor is a really good example here. We had reasonably powerful pressure washers where I used to work and used them many times over the years on my own cars and customers cars, never had an issue....sometimes giving a bird turd a lengthy last. Factory paint won't be removed with a dealer pressure washer unless there was a problem with the paint.

  27. #27
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Factory paint won't be removed with a dealer pressure washer unless there was a problem with the paint.
    I can only tell you what I have seen with my own eyes. Relatively new vehicles (not repainted-original manufacturers paint) stripped to bare metal and primer by a commercial pressure washer, used with the wrong nozzle at high pressure hot wash and traffic film remover (ie the perfect storm!). No more comments from me on this I have other things to do. Just sharing my experience for the benefit of others.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    If you get really lucky the bored guy on the pressure lance will hold it close enough to fill your headlights with water as well.
    At some dealerships a chargeable extra!

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