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Thread: Premier League 19/20

  1. #1351
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    Maybe if City fans stopped that childish booing of the Champions League anthem then UEFA would be better disposed towards them.

  2. #1352
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    Seems a bit harsh to me, but perhaps UEFA wanted to send a message and MCFC just happened to be the first on the naughty step. If there is any justice hopefully we will see Barca, Madrid, PSG, and a few Italian clubs join them.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  3. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Seems a bit harsh to me, but perhaps UEFA wanted to send a message and MCFC just happened to be the first on the naughty step. If there is any justice hopefully we will see Barca, Madrid, PSG, and a few Italian clubs join them.
    FFP was instigated to protect Barça, Madrid, Utd, Liverpool etc from wannabe upstarts crashing their party

  4. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevvy View Post
    FFP was instigated to protect Barça, Madrid, Utd, Liverpool etc from wannabe upstarts crashing their party
    No it wasn't. It stops it now, what Chelsea/City did would be very difficult now.

    Going forward, it'll protect the richer clubs. Looking at how uncompetitive most top European leagues have become, it's a negative thing.

  5. #1355
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    No it wasn't. It stops it now, what Chelsea/City did would be very difficult now.

    Going forward, it'll protect the richer clubs. Looking at how uncompetitive most top European leagues have become, it's a negative thing.
    Please read this and point out any inaccuracies (Martin Samuels is one of the best football writers in the business)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-City.html

    FFP was always designed to protect the already established elite of Europe.
    Last edited by sevvy; 15th February 2020 at 00:13.

  6. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Maybe if City fans stopped that childish booing of the Champions League anthem then UEFA would be better disposed towards them.
    As I understand it, the booing has at least something to do with UEFA’s failure to address racism.

  7. #1357
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    As I understand it, the booing has at least something to do with UEFA’s failure to address racism.
    Racism towards who?

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevvy View Post

    FFP was always designed to protect the already established elite of Europe.
    How do you become the established elite though? In most cases a century of hard work. Is it fair that work should be undone in two seasons with a rich Arabs chequebook?

    That’s the alternative view anyway.

    I’d say as always the truth is somewhere in the middle.

  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    How do you become the established elite though? In most cases a century of hard work. Is it fair that work should be undone in two seasons with a rich Arabs chequebook?

    That’s the alternative view anyway.

    I’d say as always the truth is somewhere in the middle.
    It'd be such a pity if that oil money upped and fu**ed off wouldn't it ?

  10. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    How do you become the established elite though? In most cases a century of hard work. Is it fair that work should be undone in two seasons with a rich Arabs chequebook?

    That’s the alternative view anyway.

    I’d say as always the truth is somewhere in the middle.
    That’s just like saying is it fair that Tesla have a larger market value than Ford after all the history of Ford.
    Don’t get me wrong, if City did break the rules, which they have vehemently denied, then they deserve to be punished. But to say that FFP has got anything to do with fair play is disingenuous. PSG spent €220m on Neymar and €180m on Mbappe.

  11. #1361
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevvy View Post
    FFP was instigated to protect Barça, Madrid, Utd, Liverpool etc from wannabe upstarts crashing their party
    Eh? I thought it was instigated to prevent clubs chasing a dream and going bust in process. Leeds, Rangers, for example, rather than keeping down the "upstarts", (not that I would consider MCFC an "upstart" given they won the Cup Winners Cup back in the day). Would you consider Notts Forest "upstarts"

    The rules were written and agreed to by those involved. If the rules are then abused or broken then there are punishments associated. It seems that MCFC broke/abused the rules hence are being punished.
    As I said it seems harsh, but I have no idea how badly they broke rules,but at least they didn't suffer the same fate as Saracens who were automatically relegated.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  12. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Racism towards who?
    Does it have to be towards anyone in particular?


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  13. #1363
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    I can see Pep Guardiola chucking in the towel at Man City if the 2 year CL ban stands - he's already looking dejected with the current PL dominance of Liverpool.

  14. #1364
    Quote Originally Posted by boris9 View Post
    Does it have to be towards anyone in particular?


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    No it doesn’t but I would assume that if that is the reason there would have been something which started it.

  15. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Racism towards who?
    Foe example:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7285971/man-city-fans-boo-uefa-champions-league-anthem/

    https://theathletic.com/1589438/2020/02/07/chelsea-supporters-racism-uefa/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48072307

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11681921/yaya-toure-wants-fifa-and-uefa-to-take-stronger-action-against-racism





  16. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    It'd be such a pity if that oil money upped and fu**ed off wouldn't it ?
    If you do a bit of reading, the money can’t go anywhere because it’s in equity not debt.

    Also now part owned by Chinese and US investment funds apparently:

    PriceOfFootball (@KieranMaguire)
    13/02/2020, 19:02
    Manchester City update their shareholding list showing split of UAE, China and US investors. pic.twitter.com/ybkWLGH8BP

    This is interesting:

    https://www.uefa.com/community/news/newsid=2064391.html

    The entire focus was to prevent unsustainable debt and ensure clubs could pay their way - and to encourage long term investment in infrastructure.

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    How do you become the established elite though? In most cases a century of hard work. Is it fair that work should be undone in two seasons with a rich Arabs chequebook?
    Who has done a “century of hard work” - and indeed who hasn’t? Pretty sure clubs successful in the 60s through to the 90s had wealthy benefactors and spent to achieve their success. The only difference was that in those days there were no rules to stop you. If you are looking for moral high ground in football, you’ve got your work cut out!

  18. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Who has done a “century of hard work” - and indeed who hasn’t? Pretty sure clubs successful in the 60s through to the 90s had wealthy benefactors and spent to achieve their success. The only difference was that in those days there were no rules to stop you. If you are looking for moral high ground in football, you’ve got your work cut out!
    Utd didn't have much money in the immediate post war period and had to use Maine Road for home games.
    Arsenal and I'm sure Everton have always been in the top flight.
    Bill Shankly transformed Liverpool in the early 60's.
    Don Revie and Brian Clough performed similar miracles.


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  19. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD200 View Post
    Arsenal and I'm sure Everton have always been in the top flight.
    Interesting one!

    Had a look and Everton had 3 seasons out of the top league in the early 1950s and also 1930/31.

    Arsenal, it is said, were relegated way back - but before they were called Arsenal. They have the longest run since relegation, though: 1912/13.

    That leaves Bournemouth as the only team never to have been relegated from the top league in England!

  20. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Interesting one!

    Had a look and Everton had 3 seasons out of the top league in the early 1950s and also 1930/31.

    Arsenal, it is said, were relegated way back - but before they were called Arsenal. They have the longest run since relegation, though: 1912/13.

    That leaves Bournemouth as the only team never to have been relegated from the top league in England!
    Bournemouth can put that statistic right this season

    I hope Preston go up this time, but if they did manage it, it'd only be one season.

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  21. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Didn’t I have an argument with Thegoat over this ?

    Glad to see city have been rightfully banned for cheating.
    No , our argument was about Heysel and your reluctance to accept wrongdoing on the part of your followers .
    When Liverpool failed FFP , where was all your moral outrage then ?
    City will appeal and will take it much further, if this I have no doubt . These appeals are likely to take a year or more so all the wet dreams about being kicked out of the competition are incredibly premature . The gloves are off and from the tone coming out of City it will make for interesting times .
    I’ve thought for years that City have been far too soft with their responses to certain accusations but I’m under no doubts that they will not take this lying down .

  22. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Who has done a “century of hard work” - and indeed who hasn’t? Pretty sure clubs successful in the 60s through to the 90s had wealthy benefactors and spent to achieve their success. The only difference was that in those days there were no rules to stop you. If you are looking for moral high ground in football, you’ve got your work cut out!
    The difference was that in the past the "wealthy benefactors" were local businessmen or similar and transfers were more realistic as a result.

    In the modern era we saw the emergence of ownership by foreign billionaires with a seeming never ending supply of cash and a line drawn between clubs simply on their cash balance.

    Even if Brian Clough were to come back today he couldn't win the league with either Forest or Derby.
    Cheers,
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  23. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Foe example:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7285971/man-city-fans-boo-uefa-champions-league-anthem/

    https://theathletic.com/1589438/2020/02/07/chelsea-supporters-racism-uefa/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48072307

    https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11681921/yaya-toure-wants-fifa-and-uefa-to-take-stronger-action-against-racism




    Interesting, a few of them are not directly related to City which is why I wondered if racism was the specific reason or just a general dislike for UEFA.

  24. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Interesting, a few of them are not directly related to City which is why I wondered if racism was the specific reason or just a general dislike for UEFA.
    I assume things have spiralled as FFP issues have been in the papers for year (it feels like!). Also, then there was this nonsense that I remember for some reason: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29730690 "Uefa says no rules were broken despite [650 home] fans being present at CSKA Moscow's "behind closed doors" match with Manchester City".

    More generally, it shows that, whatever you think of FFP and manchester City, UEFA has no principles to speak of of it doesn't come down hard on racism.


    Last edited by David_D; 15th February 2020 at 16:35.

  25. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Eh? I thought it was instigated to prevent clubs chasing a dream and going bust in process. Leeds, Rangers, for example, rather than keeping down the "upstarts", (not that I would consider MCFC an "upstart" given they won the Cup Winners Cup back in the day). Would you consider Notts Forest "upstarts"

    The rules were written and agreed to by those involved. If the rules are then abused or broken then there are punishments associated. It seems that MCFC broke/abused the rules hence are being punished.
    As I said it seems harsh, but I have no idea how badly they broke rules,but at least they didn't suffer the same fate as Saracens who were automatically relegated.
    Andy , the rules were invented in 2008 to stop newbies crashing the established clubs monopoly on the Champions League money .
    For a full history lesson, it harks back to the days when United, Arsenal and Liverpool wanted more cash from UEFA and threatened to leave with an intent to create their own Superleague with other European powerhouses.
    UEFA crumbled and guaranteed the English contingent three Champions League slots and changed the format to group stages to make more money.
    This then created the superpowers in the Premier League which duly left every other team to flounder in the mud . The rewards for being in this cabal were enormous.
    Step forward Chelsea , bankrolled by a Russian oligarch to upset the applecart , winning the CL in the process , upsetting all the established old order, despite UEFA s best efforts to stop them . (Barcelona game, anyone ? )
    When Likkle old City popped up , despite having no history , you could feel UEFA frothing at the mouth .
    The ‘history’ clubs were apoplectic . They did and still do, despise everything about clubs who have this nouveau riche swagger about them , even though they’ve all had investment of some sort in their history.

    Another way to look at this .
    Everton
    Wolves
    Newcastle ( if they get the rumoured investment)
    Every one of these clubs will be hamstrung by the ruling to prevent them investing in a team capable of challenging . Why is this ?
    Why is it better to have a club loaded with debt than one where a benefactor is willing to invest ? Where in any other walk of life is there a business model that decries investment ?

    The investment from our owners goes far beyond the club. The area around the ground has been transformed due to money ploughed into local infrastructure, affordable housing , transport links etc. All of this goes on without any fanfare or rush to gain credence.
    When he pulled Barclays from the brink ( ironically when we were playing in the Barclays Premier League) where were the hounds then ?

    City will fight this . Of this I have no doubt .

    Looking forward to booing the CL jingle when Real Madrid ( not bankrolled by the Spanish State , no Siree at all ) roll into town .

    BTW . Still waiting on ANY Liverpool fan telling me how outraged they were when their beloved club failed FFP .

  26. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Andy , the rules were invented in 2008 to stop newbies crashing the established clubs monopoly on the Champions League money .
    For a full history lesson, it harks back to the days when United, Arsenal and Liverpool wanted more cash from UEFA and threatened to leave with an intent to create their own Superleague with other European powerhouses.
    UEFA crumbled and guaranteed the English contingent three Champions League slots and changed the format to group stages to make more money.
    This then created the superpowers in the Premier League which duly left every other team to flounder in the mud . The rewards for being in this cabal were enormous.
    Step forward Chelsea , bankrolled by a Russian oligarch to upset the applecart , winning the CL in the process , upsetting all the established old order, despite UEFA s best efforts to stop them . (Barcelona game, anyone ? )
    When Likkle old City popped up , despite having no history , you could feel UEFA frothing at the mouth .
    The ‘history’ clubs were apoplectic . They did and still do, despise everything about clubs who have this nouveau riche swagger about them , even though they’ve all had investment of some sort in their history.

    Another way to look at this .
    Everton
    Wolves
    Newcastle ( if they get the rumoured investment)
    Every one of these clubs will be hamstrung by the ruling to prevent them investing in a team capable of challenging . Why is this ?
    Why is it better to have a club loaded with debt than one where a benefactor is willing to invest ? Where in any other walk of life is there a business model that decries investment ?

    The investment from our owners goes far beyond the club. The area around the ground has been transformed due to money ploughed into local infrastructure, affordable housing , transport links etc. All of this goes on without any fanfare or rush to gain credence.
    When he pulled Barclays from the brink ( ironically when we were playing in the Barclays Premier League) where were the hounds then ?

    City will fight this . Of this I have no doubt .

    Looking forward to booing the CL jingle when Real Madrid ( not bankrolled by the Spanish State , no Siree at all ) roll into town .

    BTW . Still waiting on ANY Liverpool fan telling me how outraged they were when their beloved club failed FFP .
    Sounds just like a typical Andyg commentary this does...hahahahahaha

  27. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Sounds just like a typical Andyg commentary this does...hahahahahaha
    Is that your response to your failed FFP Reggie ?
    Or should it be FFS ?

  28. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Is that your response to your failed FFP Reggie ?
    Or should it be FFS ?
    Not all, you Grade 1 waffler.

  29. #1379
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post

    BTW . Still waiting on ANY Liverpool fan telling me how outraged they were when their beloved club failed FFP .
    Too busy laughing at your mindless rants.

  30. #1380
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Not all, you Grade 1 waffler.
    Good response , so well thought out.

  31. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Too busy laughing at your mindless rants.
    Jeez .
    Who put 50 p in you Bobster ?
    Care to answer any of the points or will you need the back up again ?

  32. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Jeez .
    Who put 50 p in you Bobster ?
    Care to answer any of the points or will you need the back up again ?
    Just enjoying laughing at you.

    Keep it up.

  33. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Just enjoying laughing at you.

    Keep it up.
    Morning Bobby
    No answers then ?

  34. #1384
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    Is City loosing Guardiola and players? I wonder how will this situation reflect on champions league? (premier league is already finished for this season)

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  35. #1385
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Morning Bobby
    No answers then ?
    Too busy laughing at you up all night ranting.

    Please keep it up.

  36. #1386
    Everton have dropped their gambling sponsors two years early. A very good move IMO not a gambler myself but frankly sick of the endless gambling ads on sports tv and games.

    Interesting program on BBC last night about gambling and the effects it has on people.

  37. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by robert75 View Post
    Too busy laughing at you up all night ranting.

    Please keep it up.
    I intend to
    Good debating with you

  38. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    Andy , the rules were invented in 2008 to stop newbies crashing the established clubs monopoly on the Champions League money .
    For a full history lesson, it harks back to the days when United, Arsenal and Liverpool wanted more cash from UEFA and threatened to leave with an intent to create their own Superleague with other European powerhouses.
    UEFA crumbled and guaranteed the English contingent three Champions League slots and changed the format to group stages to make more money.
    This then created the superpowers in the Premier League which duly left every other team to flounder in the mud . The rewards for being in this cabal were enormous.
    Step forward Chelsea , bankrolled by a Russian oligarch to upset the applecart , winning the CL in the process , upsetting all the established old order, despite UEFA s best efforts to stop them . (Barcelona game, anyone ? )
    When Likkle old City popped up , despite having no history , you could feel UEFA frothing at the mouth .
    The ‘history’ clubs were apoplectic . They did and still do, despise everything about clubs who have this nouveau riche swagger about them , even though they’ve all had investment of some sort in their history.

    Another way to look at this .
    Everton
    Wolves
    Newcastle ( if they get the rumoured investment)
    Every one of these clubs will be hamstrung by the ruling to prevent them investing in a team capable of challenging . Why is this ?
    Why is it better to have a club loaded with debt than one where a benefactor is willing to invest ? Where in any other walk of life is there a business model that decries investment ?

    The investment from our owners goes far beyond the club. The area around the ground has been transformed due to money ploughed into local infrastructure, affordable housing , transport links etc. All of this goes on without any fanfare or rush to gain credence.
    When he pulled Barclays from the brink ( ironically when we were playing in the Barclays Premier League) where were the hounds then ?

    City will fight this . Of this I have no doubt .

    Looking forward to booing the CL jingle when Real Madrid ( not bankrolled by the Spanish State , no Siree at all ) roll into town .

    BTW . Still waiting on ANY Liverpool fan telling me how outraged they were when their beloved club failed FFP .
    Liverpool didn’t fail FFP.

    Hence why they were investigated and not charged like city.

  39. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Liverpool didn’t fail FFP.

    Hence why they were investigated and not charged like city.
    That relevant point is lost on him, hence the amusement.

    His rants are like the gift that keeps on giving.

    Love the obsession with Liverpool though, do hope he keeps it up.

  40. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Even if Brian Clough were to come back today he couldn't win the league with either Forest or Derby.
    Or Leicester? Another Midlands club.

  41. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Liverpool didn’t fail FFP.

    Hence why they were investigated and not charged like city.
    But you did .
    That’s my point .
    You overspent in 2011-12 and again the year after .
    You would’ve been suspended if you’d qualified .

  42. #1392
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    Whilst I take stuff I read on every forum with a large pinch of salt, I saw this comment this morning (on a United forum, granted) and it's something I've always wondered about regards Aguero.

    There is no way on this earth that Aguero, Silva and De Bruyne don’t have sizeable emirati property portfolios or some consulting businesses out in Abu Dhabi that have deposits in local banks in the tens of millions. We don’t know what the angle is but there most definitely is a reason why Aguero in his pomp never ever attracted any serious interest from the likes of Real or Barca. A player who for years was way above anything else City had and genuinely world class.

    It will come out, it always does.

  43. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    You would’ve been suspended if you’d qualified .
    Possibly (if the proposition is true in the first place, as I have no idea). Please note the importance of "IF"
    Memento Mori

  44. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Whilst I take stuff I read on every forum with a large pinch of salt, I saw this comment this morning (on a United forum, granted) and it's something I've always wondered about regards Aguero.
    Bit ironic given Man Utd’s fall from grace. Realistically, did Alexis Sanchez join them expecting to win things or for the money? Similarly with David De Gea signing a new contract.

    I’m sure Man City pay top dollar but they have also been competing, domestically at least, for the last however many years.

    I suppose anything on rival fan forums can get a bit “X files” conspiracy theories-wise!

  45. #1395
    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Whilst I take stuff I read on every forum with a large pinch of salt, I saw this comment this morning (on a United forum, granted) and it's something I've always wondered about regards Aguero.

    There is no way on this earth that Aguero, Silva and De Bruyne don’t have sizeable emirati property portfolios or some consulting businesses out in Abu Dhabi that have deposits in local banks in the tens of millions. We don’t know what the angle is but there most definitely is a reason why Aguero in his pomp never ever attracted any serious interest from the likes of Real or Barca. A player who for years was way above anything else City had and genuinely world class.

    It will come out, it always does.
    Yet a player who struggles to make the national starting 11 at times and only made Premier League team of the season twice.
    I’m trying very hard to stay as balanced as possible about this whole situation being a City fan. Once the CAS appeal is heard and judgement delivered then there’ll be more tangible information to take in.
    One thing I do feel is that the animosity between City and UEFA is such that the whole FFP could end up being in civil courts and the ramifications as big as the Bosman ruling.

  46. #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    But you did .
    That’s my point .
    You overspent in 2011-12 and again the year after .
    You would’ve been suspended if you’d qualified .
    We didn’t overspend hence why we were cleared.

    The losses you are talking about relate to the training ground move and investment in the Kirkby site. These costs can be offset, hence why we were cleared.

    You just sponsored your own training ground for 350 million quid you cheats.

  47. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Bit ironic given Man Utd’s fall from grace. Realistically, did Alexis Sanchez join them expecting to win things or for the money? Similarly with David De Gea signing a new contract.
    Its not the same though -- Sanchez joined for the money of course, but he's nowhere close to being in the same league as Aguero.

    My question is, why has Aguero's head not been turned by Barca/Real who could match his (alleged) wages?

    And De Gea wanted away years ago when he was the best keeper in the world -- so you're actually reinforcing my point.

    I'll put it another way. As I watched Ronaldo become world class, the nagging thought was always 'when's he gonna go to RM?'

  48. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    Is City loosing Guardiola and players? I wonder how will this situation reflect on champions league? (premier league is already finished for this season)

    Poslano sa mog FRD-L09 koriste?i Tapatalk
    If there was ever an incentive for City to become a big club and win the CL then this is it.
    Last edited by Middo; 17th February 2020 at 12:57.

  49. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Its not the same though -- Sanchez joined for the money of course, but he's nowhere close to being in the same league as Aguero.

    My question is, why has Aguero's head not been turned by Barca/Real who could match his (alleged) wages?

    And De Gea wanted away years ago when he was the best keeper in the world -- so you're actually reinforcing my point.

    I'll put it another way. As I watched Ronaldo become world class, the nagging thought was always 'when's he gonna go to RM?'
    City are probably the only club in the world that dont need to sell ?

    Barca arguably havent need him with having Suarez the last few seasons and Real have had Benzema.

    Dont think there is anything sinister goin on with regards to Aguero staying.

  50. #1400
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    It does seem a bit of a stretch...plus the top players are already so rich I'm not sure secret property portfolios would even be an incentive.

    The situation at Saracens is different - I think - as comparatively rugby players don't earn anything like as much, so the illicit add-ons would have been that much more attractive.

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