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Thread: Premier League 19/20

  1. #1001
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Andy Carroll for West Ham manager

  2. #1002
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Just back from the game and absolutely gutted.

    We have played cracking football all season, our game, and had some tough luck but the VAR on our second goal just takes the biscuit.

    Pitch

  3. #1003
    Peller has been sacked

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  4. #1004
    I thought VAR was to correct clear and obvious errors, and if it was used for that purpose it would be a good thing. But, if an error is only found by looking at multiple camera angles in slow motion for three minutes how can the error be clear and obvious. The same with offsides, if you have to pause the replay and overlay with gridlines before zooming in on a bootlace the error is not clear and obvious. The way itís working at the moment is totally destroying the flow of the game for players and fans alike.

    Onto much more important matters, Watford are back! We seem to have finally got the right coach in Nigel Pearson and heís getting a team that hasnít played well since Easter looking like they might pull a great escape out of the bag this season. Iíll enjoy it whilst it lasts, heíll probably be sacked at the end of the season when we bring in another hapless European!

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    I'm genuinely bemused by you here. I don't have any Liverpool bias on the conversation.

    I've said I think TAA was a handball but Salah was onside.

    I agree VAR isn't working.

    Ive stated VAR was introduced to stop people constantly whinging about referees decisions and refs dictating the outcomes of games.

    Both are floored as they both rely on humans to make the decisions.

    There is no conspiracy against City.

    Every teams has had dodgy VAR calls go for and against them this season.

    Fans are not tuning out in droves.

    What more do you want me to say and what are you actually talking about now ? What's your actual point ?

    VAR is worse than refs ? Agreed.

    Refs also often get big decisions wrong - Agreed

    My offering is to give each manager one VAR challenge a game to rule out big obvious errors.
    You brought up Tevez v Barton like it had some bearing on VAR . Thatís where I went with that one.

    No Liverpool bias ? OK . Iím actually not a City fan then .
    Youíve mentioned a number of times that de isions go for you and against you and it evens itself out over a season but it doesnít.
    VAR wasnít introduced to stop people whinging about referees decisions. You have completely made that up . As other folk on here have mentioned, it was brought in to stop clear and obvious errors .
    Which it hasnít done . In fact it has made them far far worse.

    The handballs by TAA and Soyoncu (sp) were almost identical . One was given, one wasnít . By the same referee . Both decisions were backed up by VAR . If you wonít see that the game is being manipulated then great, back in your bubble.

    And then you say ď Itís just a game ď like itís a Sunday morning amateur kick about.
    Itís a multi billion pound industry with hundreds of millions of people watching every week that is being manipulated by a faceless organisation who have nobody to answer to . Itís a disgrace.

    By the way, it might be City fans at the moment turning out but if this thing carries on in its present guise, loads more will drop it too.

  6. #1006
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    Yes it was to correct clear and obvious decisions that refs were making that made people constantly say that the refs are shite.

    The Trent and Soy were not identical as a City player handballed it first ( I still think it was a pen as I've said ).

    As for the faceless organisation that's manipulating games.

    Come on have a word, there's no conspiracy going on.

    If Liverpool win the league this year and city don't then it's because liverpool have been the better side and vice versa.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    You brought up Tevez v Barton like it had some bearing on VAR . Thatís where I went with that one.

    No Liverpool bias ? OK . Iím actually not a City fan then .
    Youíve mentioned a number of times that de isions go for you and against you and it evens itself out over a season but it doesnít.
    VAR wasnít introduced to stop people whinging about referees decisions. You have completely made that up . As other folk on here have mentioned, it was brought in to stop clear and obvious errors .
    Which it hasnít done . In fact it has made them far far worse.

    The handballs by TAA and Soyoncu (sp) were almost identical . One was given, one wasnít . By the same referee . Both decisions were backed up by VAR . If you wonít see that the game is being manipulated then great, back in your bubble.

    And then you say ď Itís just a game ď like itís a Sunday morning amateur kick about.
    Itís a multi billion pound industry with hundreds of millions of people watching every week that is being manipulated by a faceless organisation who have nobody to answer to . Itís a disgrace.

    By the way, it might be City fans at the moment turning out but if this thing carries on in its present guise, loads more will drop it too.
    Jesus Christ will you two give it a rest

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Just back from the game and absolutely gutted.

    We have played cracking football all season, our game, and had some tough luck but the VAR on our second goal just takes the biscuit.

    Pitch
    The Pukki offside decision should be the final nail in the coffin for VAR offside overrules, but unfortunately it won't be. Absolute nonsense that his elbow can be deemed offside and rule out a fantastic goal!

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    The Pukki offside decision should be the final nail in the coffin for VAR offside overrules, but unfortunately it won't be. Absolute nonsense that his elbow can be deemed offside and rule out a fantastic goal!
    Yes, that was a poor decision, and I say that as a Spurs fan.

    It's killing the game, no question about that; I also fail to understand why instructions haven't yet been issued to revert to the original intention - that is, to address clear and obvious refereeing errors. None of this one centimetre b*llocks.

    I quite like the suggestion of one VAR "appeal" for each side, which I'd couple with unlimited use for goal-line verification... that would do it for me.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 29th December 2019 at 10:08.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoat View Post
    So do you and your Liverpool supporting friends think that ,
    ďYou win some , you lose some ďshould be prevalent in todayís multi billion pound game ?
    It wouldnít wash on any business today .
    At the minute, youíre getting more than your fair share of decisions going your way on the field . City are being hampered both on and off the field . Wether or not you think Im a tinfoil hat wearing balloon makes no difference to me .
    The game is a farce and people are turning off in droves . That will become apparent unless something is done .
    Oh for Gods sake give it a rest! Your like a broken record on this thread.

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, that was a poor decision, and I say that as a Spurs fan.

    It's killing the game, no question about that; I also fail to understand why instructions haven't yet been issued to revert to the original intention - that is, to address clear and obvious refereeing errors. None of this one centimetre b*llocks.

    I quite like the suggestion of one VAR "appeal" for each side, which I'd couple with unlimited use for goal-line verification... that would do it for me.
    Like that Tony, something needs to be done.

  12. #1012
    What I donít get about offside is why the line isnít drawn at ground level ,as in your feet position,itís ridiculous to say your arm was in front by 6 inch ,when we all know you canít score with your arm .


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  13. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1974 View Post
    What I donít get about offside is why the line isnít drawn at ground level ,as in your feet position,itís ridiculous to say your arm was in front by 6 inch ,when we all know you canít score with your arm .
    But you can score with your head, shoulder, chest - and, it appears, according to VAR, your armpit!

    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    The Pukki offside decision should be the final nail in the coffin for VAR offside overrules, but unfortunately it won't be. Absolute nonsense that his elbow can be deemed offside and rule out a fantastic goal!
    Didn't see it but, as you say, as you can't score with the arm, I thought your arm couldn't be offside.


    I've said before, with the speed of the game and the ridiculous margins they are seeking to measure, the resolution of the images and "frame rate" of the video they use are completely inadequate for the job.

  14. #1014
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    When it comes to offsides, I think the VAR controversy is more likely caused by the actual LAW no longer being fit for purpose. When something like offside is an objective decision (like armpits being offside, for example), then VAR is correctly identifying offsides, but the spirit of the law (ie stop goalhanging) and the Ďbigger pictureí of entertaining the fans are being lost.

    My personal preference would be for the law to be changed so that there needs to be daylight between the defender and the attacker in order for an offside to be given, and for VAR only to be used when the linesman has raised the flag.

    For technology to be accepted it really does need to be at least 99% accurate and inline with the spirit of the rules and the game- if we canít achieve this then bin it.

  15. #1015
    A lot of Rangers fans calling for VAR at the moment

  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom4711 View Post
    the Ďbigger pictureí of entertaining the fans are being lost.
    Or even telling the poor so and sos who have actually paid a fortune to attend the game what's going on would be good!

    There are some clips circulating on Twitter of A League (Australia) games where the referees are "mic'd up" so there is communication about what's happening.

  17. #1017
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    VAR strikes again!!

  18. #1018
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    Goodness me.

    It's certainly continuing to be controversial

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  19. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by kultschar View Post
    VAR strikes again!!
    It’s all getting ridiculous now.

  20. #1020
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    Absolute comedy, both clear goals.

  21. #1021
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    I am a lifelong Liverpool fan, but I can see how someone could feel that there is a bias from the first half of today's game v wolves. The non handball is fair enough, but again offside decided on mm. It's football, not watch cases.

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  22. #1022
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    Weve had the same though. Manes goal two weeks more on side than that one , and on Boxing Day at least three goals were checked off for less margins than that.. it is stupid and I hate VAR, but at least its consistently ridiculous


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  23. #1023
    Master zelig's Avatar
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    I am no fan of VAR for marginal (mm) offsides.
    - & the Liverpool - Wolves game is doing nothing to win me round.

    It has benefited Liverpool again today - I donít think thatís a conspiracy - just coincidence.
    But it does take something from the enjoyment of the game - even as a neutral.

    z

  24. #1024
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    So, why didnít VAR spot the handball by VanDijk?

    https://streamja.com/j54O

  25. #1025
    Master zelig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    So, why didnít VAR spot the handball by VanDijk?

    https://streamja.com/j54O
    It was (apparently) Ďinconclusiveí evidence...

    z

  26. #1026
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    Problem is that the continued controversy could end up detracting from what could be a fantastic season for Liverpool and instead of it being remembered as a great season of football, instead marred by all of these contrivesies

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  27. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan1981 View Post
    Problem is that the continued controversy could end up detracting from what could be a fantastic season for Liverpool and instead of it being remembered as a great season of football, instead marred by all of these contrivesies

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    I donít think so.
    Liverpool are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest this season and they will deservedly win the league, but there clearly needs a re-think in respect of VAR.

  28. #1028
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    VAR goes in city's favour, I thought that didnt happen ?

    We will all look back on this is years to come and laugh about it maybe even ' theGoat'.

  29. #1029
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    Wonder what the refs make of all this? They still appear to get stick even though its out of their hands

  30. #1030
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    The point of Goal Mouth technology and VAR was to remove obvious mistakes made by the officials and reduce the bitiching and whinging by pundits and some fans. Yet now we have many of the same voices still bitching and moaning.

    No idea what the answer is, however its no longer being used to remove obvious mistakes, its now being used to referee infinitely small mistakes, which no human would be able to cope with in real time. Crazy stupid technology for something which is supposed to be game.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  31. #1031
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    Did the Ref just assist Man City with that goal lol? Seemed to ping off the ref back to City who then scored. The Blades are furious

    What a day of controversy
    Last edited by kultschar; 29th December 2019 at 20:16.

  32. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by kultschar View Post
    Did the Ref just assist Man City with that goal lol? Seemed to ping off the ref back to City who then scored. The Blades are furious

    What a day of controversy
    Yep the ref, playing as a City holding midfielder, intercepted a Sheffield United clearance and recycled the ball immediately to De Bruyne. Then waved play on to allow Aguerooooooo to score.

    Absolute farce!!

  33. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    VAR goes in city's favour, I thought that didnt happen ?

    We will all look back on this is years to come and laugh about it maybe even ' theGoat'.
    Yawn
    Again, not the point . Didnít have an issue if it was given as a goal .
    Out if interest .
    How many VAR decisions went for your lot today ?

    Biggest chant today was both sets of fans singing F... VAR .

  34. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelig View Post
    It was (apparently) Ďinconclusiveí evidence...

    z
    The referee subsequently said it wasn't given because the handball was too early in the move. Absolute cobblers and Wolves were robbed on the day.

  35. #1035
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    Current VAR winners and losers.....

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...mpression=true

    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    The referee subsequently said it wasn't given because the handball was too early in the move. Absolute cobblers and Wolves were robbed on the day.
    It’s not hand ball if the ball touches the hand having deflected off another part of the body.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct
    Last edited by benny.c; 30th December 2019 at 10:53.

  36. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Current VAR winners and losers.....

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...mpression=true



    Itís not hand ball if the ball touches the hand having deflected off another part of the body.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct
    According o that then the big dark underground VAR bosses wants Brighton & Hove to win the league.

    Can't see what's wrong with VAR. It's just making decisions to the letter of the law which is what everyone wanted.

  37. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprite1275 View Post
    According o that then the big dark underground VAR bosses wants Brighton & Hove to win the league.

    Can't see what's wrong with VAR. It's just making decisions to the letter of the law which is what everyone wanted.
    I am not sure giving offsides for the attacker being 5mm offside 30 seconds before the ball enters the net is what everyone wanted, hence the wide ranging outcry from multiple sources.

  38. #1038
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprite1275 View Post
    According o that then the big dark underground VAR bosses wants Brighton & Hove to win the league.

    Can't see what's wrong with VAR. It's just making decisions to the letter of the law which is what everyone wanted.
    That's patently not the case - nobody wanted this, and it's not what was promised.

  39. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    I am not sure giving offsides for the attacker being 5mm offside 30 seconds before the ball enters the net is what everyone wanted, hence the wide ranging outcry from multiple sources.
    Is it not he right decision though? If that attacker is 6mm back a bit then all is well. We have the tech now so to say 'its just a tiny bit offside so it's ok' just seems like a backwards step.

  40. #1040
    Craftsman petay993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprite1275 View Post
    Is it not he right decision though? If that attacker is 6mm back a bit then all is well. We have the tech now so to say 'its just a tiny bit offside so it's ok' just seems like a backwards step.
    It is an emotional, fast paced game, agonising over millimetres and killing the excitement of great goals being scored is against the spirit of the game.

    The technology is good for goal line situations and issues missed by the officials but it is being used forensically here to punish attackers body shape as they attempt to stay on the shoulder of the last defender.

    When you have pundits, managers, players and fans all in open rebellion, something is not right.

  41. #1041
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    So its confirmed there isn't an conspiracy against City and we can confirm VAR is shite in its current form.

    Last time im going to mention VAR and hope it doesn't detract from Liverpools success this year.

  42. #1042
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I think since Vincent Kompany was put in charge of VAR City have definitely been getting some dodgy decisions. The other night at Wolves was a disgrace and last night the ref is helping them.

    At least it should shut the hard done by brigade up for a while.

  43. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Current VAR winners and losers.....

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...mpression=true
    No surpise to find the Blades bottom of that league or to see that last night's game was given to a referee from Manchester whose internvention handed City the lead.

    FWIW clear and obvious errors, by their difinition, should not need; slow motion, frozen frames or more than 20 seconds to manifest themselves.

  44. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Current VAR winners and losers.....

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...mpression=true



    Itís not hand ball if the ball touches the hand having deflected off another part of the body.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct
    Taken from the same link you posted - it clearly was handball and an offence

    It is usually an offence if a player:
    touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger

  45. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Current VAR winners and losers.....

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...mpression=true



    Itís not hand ball if the ball touches the hand having deflected off another part of the body.

    http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...and-misconduct
    But.....itís all a conspiracy right? Liverpool are being handed the title by VAR.

  46. #1046
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Taken from the same link you posted - it clearly was handball and an offence

    It is usually an offence if a player:
    touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    Have you seen the video rather than the photo of it?

    Last edited by Enda; 30th December 2019 at 15:31.

  47. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I think since Vincent Kompany was put in charge of VAR City have definitely been getting some dodgy decisions. The other night at Wolves was a disgrace and last night the ref is helping them.

    At least it should shut the hard done by brigade up for a while.
    ?
    Do you have a link to this ?

  48. #1048
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    The most bizarre thing Iíve seen/heard was the MOTD pundits suggesting that Manchester City should have stopped play or not gone for goal, when the referee didnít touch the ball, on the grounds of ďfair playĒ and ďspirit of the gameĒ. Has that happened ever, anywhere in competitive football??

  49. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enda View Post
    Have you seen the video rather than the photo of it?

    Yes - no less clear than if you look at the video of the Lallana "shoulder" or the Wolves "offside"...Ö..but they were decided by stills and overturned decisions so why not this?

    I also saw the interview with Van Dyke after the game - decidedly sheepish when asked if it had touched his arm

  50. #1050
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Fair play? Spirit of the game?

    Paolo Di Canio of West Ham v. Everton 20.12.2000.

    ______

    ​Jim.

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