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The part about dry lubricants is pretty interesting, thanks. Wonder if any other makers are looking into it?
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The part about dry lubricants is pretty interesting, thanks. Wonder if any other makers are looking into it?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Very interesting.
I look forward to the swiss brands informing us that watches without lubricants lack soul.
I also find the dry lubricant news interesting. In theory, it could be retro applied to any watch, but in practice I suspect someone will patent it, and like all new technology will be priced out of reach for the common man for a few decades. A retro application service would be a popular seller.
I am surprised watchmakers have not used DLC, an established technology.
DLC to DLC surface has about the same coefficient of friction as an oiled jewel and depending on depth of application can last hundreds of years without significant wear.
Probably the expense of doing such a thing.
Mitch
Possibly M, but I suspect it's much more about customers expecting to see "jewels" as an indicator of luxury. Mentioned on another thread recently, but back in the 1970's Girard Perregaux's first quartz movement used teflon bearings and dry lubrication on the metal date mechanism for maintenance free for decades(mentioned it as a selling point in their advertising). Seems to work too, considering the survivors out there. Funny enough on the baseplate it has No(0) Jewels engraved and I've seen similar on really cheap plastic quartz movements. Maybe that's an industry standard brought in by the Swiss, so even if you went with some cool ceramic or whatever you'd have to state the lack of jewels somewhere?Originally Posted by Mitch
PLus look at how much the main Swiss companies charge for regular servicing. IT's clearly a nice little income stream for them. That would be badly hit if everyone went over to latest tech requiring no oiling and maintenance.
Sounds like the line Dyson was given by all the major manufacturers back when he built his first bagless vacuum. 'Why would we want to make a bagless vacuum cleaner when we make most of our profit by selling dust bags?'.
edit: don't forget 3D printing and 3D metal sintering. I think both of these will have an equally big effect as they'll allow anyone with Autocad and a suitable printer to make watches completely to their own design. If they continue developing as they have been, and if they make a garage sized one, then I for one will be 3D printing ferrari 250's (electric powered of course)
Last edited by LorneG; 8th June 2019 at 16:01.
Seeing the mention of jewels. I’ve known a few people state the belief that the jewels actually had an intrinsic value. It must have been an advertising implication as there was a fashion for very high jewelled movements I believe in the 60’s.
The watch business is interesting as the whole thing is an anachronism. So push it too high tech and it loses its reason for being. If your whole business is around tech watches you are at prey from Apple or Amazon or anyone else who comes out with tech. IMO the watch industry has to occupy the jewellery space. Just as woman would like a diamond engagement ring a man / woman needs the watch.
Not sure if I’m wondering off track here.
They certainly make large 3d printers, they’re printing houses now!
https://www.3dprintedhouse.nl/en/pro...e-we-printing/
Bang on the nose! A watch and a wedding ring are, in my opinion at least, the only jewellery a man should wear. I'm not sure about wrist-bands even though my fashion icon, Mr Clarkson, likes them. When I see someone with an iWatch or similar I know it has far more functionality than a regular wrist watch, but all I see is a black space on their wrist where a lovely watch should be sitting.
edit: I always think of something else after posting. Also correct that the jewels have no value at all as the ruby is a synthetic ruby grown as single crystals from aluminium oxide with I think a touch of chrome to colour it. The reason for using it is a Mohrs hardness of 9, which means it can run for a couple of hundred years lubricated and quite a few decades unlubricated. The same aluminium oxide single crystal technique is used without the chrome to create the sapphire front glass on a watch.
Last edited by LorneG; 8th June 2019 at 18:38.
I reckon that's a huge part of it. Now while many complain about the rising prices of maintenance and the squeezing out of independent watchmakers to price gouge even more, quite a percentage seem to get some thrill from paying more. Must add to the "luxury" vibe for some. I've noticed this much more, though not exclusive to American folks. You see it quite a bit on sites like WUS. Similar with paying over the odds with dealers and sites like Hodinkee when even the most cursory of googles would tell someone to go elsewhere. More of an aspirational society I suppose, where telegraphing "bling" and that you've "arrived" is more in play? Not a judgement at all BTW, watch cultures can vary a lot, even in the same culture. There are quite the number of differences between vintage buyers and new would be one example.
Oh it's been in play for a long time Mark, you see it in the late 19th century, particularly (and again) across the Atlantic with some American manufacturers making crazy high jewel count pocket watches. Even at the cheap end, a French company like Mortima that was going from the 40's to the 80's producing cheap pin pallet "fashion" type watches advertised 17 and 21 jewel watches where a few of the jewels were set into the plate serving no purpose but to add to the jewel count. I seem to recall reading a watchmaker say that in a hand wound movement any more than 18 was doing little or nothing as far as timekeeping was concerned.
Spot on Sir.The watch business is interesting as the whole thing is an anachronism. So push it too high tech and it loses its reason for being. If your whole business is around tech watches you are at prey from Apple or Amazon or anyone else who comes out with tech. IMO the watch industry has to occupy the jewellery space. Just as woman would like a diamond engagement ring a man / woman needs the watch.
Not sure if I’m wondering off track here.
'Dry-lubricant' here is a misnomer. There is no lubricant, just low-friction surfaces.
Another interesting development to watch out for. Cheers.
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Not always K. There are a few dry-lubricants out there, iE not requiring an oil base, but added to existing surfaces, graphite based ones would be one group, molybdenum and boron based another. My car's engine has the molybdenum stuff(on the piston rings IIRC). OK that's bonded to the surface, but you can also get the loose stuff you can add on. Again IIRC the GP quartz movements used the carbon stuff.
Appreciate stuff like graphite is a dry lubricant but when bonded to the surface it is (part of) the component.
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