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Thread: Creating my own '1016'

  1. #1
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    Creating my own '1016'

    I love the 1016 look.. but i just can't afford it, and while i realize i risk offending people and potentially looking like someone wanting to create a frankenwatch to sell (i'm not, this is just for me!) - so could i ask what the closest case is to a 1016, which i can put an aftermarket 1016-looking dial and hands in? I feel a 5504 (36mm, 20mm lug width) is fairly close (they sometimes came with Explorer dials that looked very similar to 1016s) but they are slimmer and have smaller DJ-style lugholes rather than the sports lugholes.
    Is there anything else i can use?
    I could even use a 36mm DJ (probably the cheapest option) but then there's the cyclops to deal with. Not sure how i'd deal with that as i haven't got a glass press to change it.
    Any other ideas as to what i could use here?

    And the same question for a 34mm version? i.e. what case is closest to a 5500 ?

    Thank you vm.
    John

  2. #2
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    36mm Everest...??

  3. #3
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    In the world of vintage Rolex, “Franken” is too close to “fake”...

    1016 have gone crazy price wise. On the other hand 5500 Explorers are still affordable and that’s where I’d be looking if I were you. Beware that there are probably more than a few about that started as normal Airkings with later repainted dials and new handsets, so back to Franken territory.

    Here’s mine- even with my fat nearly 8 inch wrist I don’t feel that 34mm looks or feels too girly especially on a Zulu.


  4. #4
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    A 1018 OP has the same case, and people have used them to create 1016-a-likes. Waste of a good 1018, if you ask me....

  5. #5
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    36mm Everest...??
    Yes, isn't this the most straightforward solution?

    Well it was for me anyway. The 1016 is my favourite watch but is way out of my league price wise and even if I could afford it I would be worried about fragility and WR.

  6. #6
    Master sean's Avatar
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    Seiko explorer mod?



    But I'd go with an Everest.

  7. #7
    OP, good luck with your project.
    Franken is not the same as fake as long as it is not done to deceive or sell. Just my opinion.

  8. #8
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    The problem with franken is the motivation and the skill levels of the people doing it. Rolex will never do it for obvious reasons and the people who do it, do so for many reasons, but a quick profit is the usual motivation and they are probably back street merchants as no reputable business would even entertain the idea.

    This is why I put every Rolex I ever buy into Rolex within a day or two for inspection and have it verified for authenticity.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    I still think that this is the best option





    It avoids the whole franken/fake issue whilst taking all of its design cues from the 1016 - its amazingly cheap, rugged and has excellent WR.
    Last edited by Velorum; 8th June 2019 at 22:15.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Velorum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk View Post
    A Tudor Ranger would fit the bill

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    Apart from the hands and the numerals at 12 o'clock!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    A 1018 OP has the same case, and people have used them to create 1016-a-likes. Waste of a good 1018, if you ask me....
    Def Amf is correct, the Oyster Perpetual 1018 is the only reference that will fit the same dial - it’s a relatively unusual 36mm Oyster Perpetual chronometer. I’ve done exactly this, though with a genuine service dial and hand set (the hands are also different), so it’s not too ‘wrong’. However the 1018 case is not exactly the same as the 1016 case, it’s slightly thinner and more dressy / elegant, while the Explorer case is more robust and has a larger crown - though you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference without seeing them side by side. You could indeed say it’s a ‘waste of a good 1018’, but in my case I have a similar champagne dialled DJ, and since I still have the dial it can always change back to its original configuration.

    I don’t think the OP will be too happy about the price of 1018s these days though, they are getting hard to source and pricey, partly for this exact reason. A proper 1016 service dial doesn’t come cheap either. Probably easiest to go for an alternative at this point, or develop an interest in older Omega Railmasters.



    For comparison, here’s the original 1018:

    Last edited by Itsguy; 8th June 2019 at 12:38.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    Apart from the hands and the numerals at 12 o'clock!
    If referring to the original, there are as many fake Tudors out there as Rolex. I have seen more Frankens than originals.

    I do agree about the Everest, it is an almost perfect alternative.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 8th June 2019 at 14:39.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    I still think that this is the best option



    It avoids the whole franken/fake issue whilst taking all of its design cues from the 1016 - its amazingly cheap, rugged and has excellent WR.
    This!




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  14. #14
    wifes got this....

  15. #15
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned the Ranger. I think Tudor missed a trick here by making the so-called “Heritage “ Ranger so big. If they had compromised on the size at around 37-38mm it would really have had a vintage feel about it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    Someone mentioned the Ranger. I think Tudor missed a trick here by making the so-called “Heritage “ Ranger so big. If they had compromised on the size at around 37-38mm it would really have had a vintage feel about it.
    Agreed!


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  17. #17
    Craftsman
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    Another vote for the Smiths Everest



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velorum View Post
    Apart from the hands and the numerals at 12 o'clock!
    And the case size

  19. #19
    Master Geralt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYNOC View Post
    Nice pic. Some blurb (and a bit of cropping) and it would do nicely for a magazine ad. Well done!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geralt View Post
    Nice pic. Some blurb (and a bit of cropping) and it would do nicely for a magazine ad. Well done!
    Thank you, much appreciated!!


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  21. #21
    I think OP’s aspirations are different. There are watches available that look like a 1016. But that is not what he is after.
    He wants to ‘create’ a 1016 using a a Rolex case and movement. It would be a franken as he admits and may not be for everyone. I can see his point as I continue to enjoy my franken Mil Sub. I cannot claim ‘credit’ for it as it was created
    rather laboriously by someone else and a 5513 was ‘sacrficed’ In the process. There is no dearth of people wanting to buy it should I wish to sell.



  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    ...Probably easiest to go for an alternative at this point, or develop an interest in older Omega Railmasters.
    I concur. A 2804 Railmaster is 36mm and with its printed dial has the same vibe if you can get along with the "toothy" indices. Having said that, they are not terribly common. A newer 38mm Trilogy LE Railmaster is easily sourced, I believe you can still find them new. Either would be less expensive than obtaining parts and altering a Rolex.

    These are stock images.

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...meter-25045200



    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...22010382001002


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    In the world of vintage Rolex, “Franken” is too close to “fake”...

    1016 have gone crazy price wise. On the other hand 5500 Explorers are still affordable and that’s where I’d be looking if I were you. Beware that there are probably more than a few about that started as normal Airkings with later repainted dials and new handsets, so back to Franken territory.

    Here’s mine- even with my fat nearly 8 inch wrist I don’t feel that 34mm looks or feels too girly especially on a Zulu.

    Thanks Draftsmann. I have certainly looked at 5500s, and thought you're right that they're cheaper... they're still pricey! some of them almost seem to almost match 1016s... hence my desire to make my own! i've bought a dial and hands (attached, likely refinished, but i don't really mind) and now all i need is an Airking 5500 or 1002 (in fact, what's the difference between these two?) and an hour or so at the bench to switch things around. And then hopefully i'm done! Only it'll by 34mm instead of 36mm...and non-original. But it's the look i'm going for here.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I think OP’s aspirations are different. There are watches available that look like a 1016. But that is not what he is after.
    He wants to ‘create’ a 1016 using a a Rolex case and movement. It would be a franken as he admits and may not be for everyone. I can see his point as I continue to enjoy my franken Mil Sub. I cannot claim ‘credit’ for it as it was created
    rather laboriously by someone else and a 5513 was ‘sacrficed’ In the process. There is no dearth of people wanting to buy it should I wish to sell.


    Rajen - thank you, you're spot on. The Smiths Everest indeed looks smashing, but i'm after a Rolex watch that looks like a 1016 (or a 5500, at a push).
    Your 'Mil Sub' is stunning... and might well be my next project! I think so long as we admit to ourselves they are 'reconstructed', not the real thing, and don't try to pass them on as something they're not, then we're just fine.

  25. #25
    I absolutely get where the OP is coming from.

    I like the Explorer 14270, and I am fortunate in that I could buy one, but TBH I get more pleasure out of creating something myself that carries off at least some of the same look.



    These watches are quite clearly not intended to fool anyone, and that was never the objective Rather it is the satisfaction of first sourcing and assembling a watch to one’s own - admittedly peculiar - design, followed by the simple pleasure of wearing it. The timekeeping may not be up to Rolex spec but it is certainly good enough.

    There is also the additional pleasure of being able to upgrade if one wishes, and I am just debating replacing the flat sapphire with domed. Then if I don’t like it, I can always change it back.

    It also has to be said that responding to the question “what watch is that?” by saying “it’s unique - and something that I personally put together” is way more entertaining than saying “it’s a Rolex”!

    So good luck to the OP and let us know how you get on. It will be great to see what you finally end up with.

    P.S. Rajen, that is stunning - any more pics?

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post

    P.S. Rajen, that is stunning - any more pics?







  27. #27
    Thank you - that really is quite something


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  28. #28
    Master raysablade's Avatar
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    i wonder if you might consider approaching this from another direction? You can still buy a similarly great looking watch, designed in the same era as the 1016 with a similar purpose in mind and with none of the compromise cost associated with creating a vintage Rolex on a budget.

  29. #29
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    So...i managed to source a '67 5500 Airking off eBay for £1,750 and spent 2.5hrs last night fiddling about switching around the dial and hands...and after much cursing, i think i did an okay-ish job, for a first attempt. Pics before and after attached.
    Total price just under £2k, excluding the '66 rivet bracelet i nicked off another watch. A lot cheaper than a 1016, that's for sure!
    One question though...regarding a balls up. i bent the hour hand when pressing it in place, tried to bend it back and ended up twisting it slightly....and I'm now petrified of snapping it by bending it back fully. It seems to touche (ever so slightly) the minute hand as i can hear a sound when windinf forward, but i can't see them touching, side on. i guess i am in a bit of future trouble on that one...see the close up shot. I think the cannon pinion is a little bent, too. I must have misjudged the pressure on the hand setter.
    How do i go about fixing this ? Aside taking it to a watch repairer of course...



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  30. #30
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post




    It’s a nice homage but I am not sure I would go full T dial and fixed bars, I have to admit I have thought of buying a 5513 and changing the hands to sword type though.
    It is a lovely looking watch.

  31. #31
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_coburg View Post
    How do i go about fixing this ? Aside taking it to a watch repairer of course...
    It seems to have worked out well. It looks good especially for the money outlaid.
    I would take the watch to an independent repairer to rectify the bent hand.
    Setting hands takes a knack and it’s best to get it sorted properly. You run the risk of marking the dial / crystal if not sorted correctly. If you try to bend the hand yourself you run the risk of snapping it or breaking the lume.

  32. #32
    Looks good. Would recommend taking it to a watchmaker to fix the hand.

  33. #33
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    To my eye the hand looks okay, but has been put on the cannon pinion at a slight angle.
    Straightening the position of the hand (it looks to be angled down to the right when looked at from front to back) should rectify it.

    Edit- this is why you can feel/hear the hands grating against each other when adjusting time. The centres look to be touching.



    Last edited by bobbee; 18th June 2019 at 10:07.

  34. #34
    I don't know how much you're willing to spend, but on the Fellows auction that is running atm, there are 2 1016.

    Lot 258 and 293

    https://www.fellows.co.uk/2348-lot-2..._cat=undefined


    https://www.fellows.co.uk/2348-lot-2...t_detail&year=

  35. #35
    Master James.uk's Avatar
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    Zeno Explorer or the Smiths 36mm version..... or a ‘Explorer dial’ converted Air King.


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  36. #36
    Grand Master
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    How about this:

    Rolex 6694 case paired with an Omega 601 movement:





    At the front, one of West Coast Time's MKII dials combined with Omega dynamic hands and a SM300 second hand.








    It works for me. I don't like the Mercedes hands and think the Omega are both clearer and less fussy.

  37. #37
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    Disaster struck.. for some reason i can't pull the crown all the way out to the setting position...it only comes out as far as the winding position. I really struggled fitting the crown back in.. and evidently failed. the little screw holding the winding stem in place seemed difficult to judge, and i felt i unwound it too much a couple of times pulling the screw completely out of the holding plate, which needed some faffing.
    So, when putting the crown back in, what is the proceedure on this 1520 movement? unwind the holding screw (how many turns?) and then push the crown in (how far?) - and then turn until it's tight? i'm clearly doing something wrong and am in a bit of a mess at the moment.
    Thank you.

  38. #38
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    You need to strip the hands and dial off, then check the keyless works and the detent screw.
    It will probably have come all the way out, and will require repositioning.
    By putting the stem in place, you will see what needs to be done.
    Get a good book on watch repair.

  39. #39
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    Evening all,
    Does anyone know whether the ref 1018 (which is itself, incidentally, a beautiful, understated and underrated watch) share the same case as the 1016 ? Or is it slimmer?
    I'm happy with my 5500 Explorer (which i had a watchmaker straighten the hands on) but would like to repeat it with a full 36mm case.
    Thank you vm.
    John

  40. #40
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_coburg View Post
    Evening all,
    Does anyone know whether the ref 1018 (which is itself, incidentally, a beautiful, understated and underrated watch) share the same case as the 1016 ? Or is it slimmer?
    I'm happy with my 5500 Explorer (which i had a watchmaker straighten the hands on) but would like to repeat it with a full 36mm case.
    Thank you vm.
    John
    There was a thread a while back, a guy was trying to Franken up a Rolex, let me see if I can find it...

    Yeah, click here mate.

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