Reply With QuoteAnd here it is...
Lovely things.
This one is guaranteed to plus or minus 5 seconds a year. Which is adequate.
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Having recently bought a Grand Seiko Heritage model with 9F series movement I’ve been doing a little reading on the subject of quartz.
So far this is the best article I have found on the 9F movements (an amazingly well thought out development and construction process):
https://watchesbysjx.com/2013/05/exp...tz-exists.html
And here it is...
Lovely things.
This one is guaranteed to plus or minus 5 seconds a year. Which is adequate.
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Thanks for this - I found it fascinating to see how the quartz crystals are grown and what they look like. I'm missing my GS quartz diver more than ever!
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The prettiest quartz movement ever. Brilliant. And all sealed for protection during battery changes.
You say that, but I don’t understand how so many quartz movements leave the coil exposed, these are so fragile and easily damaged when changing batteries.Originally Posted by Onelasttime
Cheers..
Jase
If you read the article the coil is protected. It has some clear coating giving it protection.
I was just about to say the same thing J. I could never understand it and it was part of the design of quartz watches from pretty early on. The only reasons I can think for leaving it exposed is that this how they've done it for so long, or it's a point of visual interest in the movement?
Omega's first in house quartz movement, a high quality movement it was too, provided a metal cover for protection of the coil, but you had to remove it to change the battery, which is right beside the coil. *facepalm* At least with the above Seiko it's at the opposite side of the movement. Many of the early quartz came with a user accessible battery hatch which avoided going near the coil at all, but they were phased out mostly because the retail industry was losing revenue from battery replacements.
The 9f movement is a beauty for current quartz alright, but IMHO there are better looking and built movements particularly from the early years of quartz, when they were the most expensive watches you could buy. The Rolex Oysterquartz would certainly be one. The Girard Perregaux 300 series were an arguably better engineered movement too(no exposed coil, higher torque and teflon "jewels"). The aforementioned Omega another. The Beta 21's yet another that were extremely well made. In the early days they even used natural crystal from Brazil hand formed and tuned by adding tiny slivers of gold leaf. Another thing you notice with the early stuff is the seconds hand hits the markers precisely, the Omega even had an index wheel system to ensure this.
All coils are OD, but it's a thin coating and easily breached by the slip of a screwdriver
The coil is fully sealed, it has a clear shroud/cover which you can see if you enlarge the photo’s specifically to avoid damage during battery changes (as per the article).
It also has a mechanism to stop the second hand skipping (auto backlash mechanism).
If you read the article it explains the processes used.
Last edited by ODP; 7th June 2019 at 11:49.
I’m sure it does have some protection, but I would not expect it to be as thorough compared to enclosing it properly,
Cheers..
Jase
It would still be better to completely enclose it and why they didn't when they paid serious attention to every other aspect of the movement is puzzling. Tradition I suppose. Ditto for jewels. Buyers expect them as a sign of quality, yet there are better more long lasting engineering alternatives(ceramics, teflon etc). A few of the early quartz also had anti backlash, the GP300's had the torque to move large hands too as it had a better though expensive to produce stepping motor design. In the race to make quartz ever cheaper these things were lost until we got to the mostly plastic no jewel near throwaway movements.
The gear train in the Seiko is very nice I must say. Wonderfully engineered. Seiko are quality though, so not a shock.
To be fair they’re usually the opposite side away from a battery, I think it’s more that some people shouldn’t be changing a watch battery if they can slip a screwdriver that far and stab it into the coil.
I’m just doing a service where someone has managed just that, god knows what damage they’d do to a mechanical watch if they had to get inside that! Slip of the screwdriver and break every wheel and destroy the hairspring no doubt haha
I’d take a guess that no-one on TZ has experienced any technical problems with the 9F. People can carp about this or that, but it’s got rock-solid reliability and durability. What more can they do!
Maybe... To be honest, most of my experience in battery changed are with the Seiko 7548, the daft thing about the design there is one of the battery strap screws is located right next to the coil and it’s asking for trouble, I can’t post a image from my phone but Google image it and see what I mean.
Sorry to deflect the topic, that GS is a work of art.
Cheers..
Jase
That it is and more, kudos for Seiko being one of the few still pushing the really high quality quartz movements.
Great read OP, thanks for the link.
I'm very dusty on crystal growth techniques, but Seiko obviously has it mastered in the quartz territory.
Never thought of picking up a GS quartz, but reading about their attention to detail, and the resultant accuracy, for such an old and obviously tried and tested movement, one may be on the cards. If something works just right, leave it be.
More investigation needed ;)
This YouTube video is fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sULI3raP6Jw&t=
Seeing the amount of hand-finishing & hand-assembly involved (but yes, using machines to assist), even with the 9F models, never fails to impress me.
There may be better quartz movements around now than the 9F, but at the relatively modest SBGX etc. price point I think GS offer a near unbeatable all-round package of history, innovation, design, accuracy, practicality, user experience, dial quality, finishing, hand-assembly & beauty.
I'm not sure there are S. The Longines VHP would be about the only other high end exclusive to brand quartz I can think of at the moment.
Fantastic video, thank you. Would love to tour the factory. I've been to the Seiko museum in Tokyo but the factory would be incredible!
These three threads might be of interest to the OP:
Fine-tuning a Grand Seiko 9f: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...Grand-Seiko-9f
Thoughts on an incoming: Grand Seiko SBGX009: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-Seiko-SBGX009
Some random GS quartz info...: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...GS-quartz-info
Perhaps. The reason I prefaced my comment with ‘may’ is because it’s really a subjective judgement for the individual.
From a pure movement perspective, some might even prefer Citizen’s offerings for their superior to GS (in their respective base models) +/- 5 secs accuracy, independently adjustable hour hand, eco-drive rechargeable battery, perpetual calendar etc.
But then I still plumped for my Grand Seiko 9F SBGX263, which has it’s own praiseworthy features.
Everyone will have their own leanings, so I can see both sides to the argument. And there’s an emotional side to most purchases. Certainly though, no matter which side of the fence one lands on, the features & watches are impressive & intriguing.
Thanks for the video link, highly impressive manufacture.
At around 4min 38 secs it shows that the coil is indeed fully shrouded/protected.
True enough! :) Seiko are very well made watches, even among their entry level stuff. Their top end stuff is on another level.
Considering the investment and a risky enough one with the mechanical being seen as the high end, someone dropped the ball in Longines/ETA. My dad bought one of their first series VHP's back in the mid 80's. Still have it, still very accurate and it still looks brand new(titanium nitrite IIRC, pretty much scratch proof), though it is tiny by today's standards(33 or so mm IIRC), but the smaller watch thing had come back in the more fancy dress watch area in the 80's. I remember quite clearly that it was mad money for a "good watch" at the time. IIRC he paid close to a 1000 pounds for it. These days "not a lot", but pre the watch collecting hobby kicking off that was considered a bit wild.
What sort of problems ?any links ? I ask because I was considering a second hand one .
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