No heart, he didn't want to be there.
Never underestimate the Dad bod.
Actions, words, body language... They all told a different story. Did you see the fight, especially the end?
Of course, there's wanting to be there and there's wanting to be there, you know as well as I do that he didn't want it enough, please don't be contrary.
It’s made my day seeing him get beaten
I backed Klich to beat him - who had him down
I backed Ruiz for beans at 28/1 to beat him
For me AJ is suspect to the punch - and fair to him he advised the same in an interview after the fight - stating the guys can’t box him but they all try and get him with a big punch which he needs to learn to manage
They’ll be a rematch of course
Wilder is the man
Fury is awesome
THAT is a fight I’d pay to see
As soon as he was hit hard, he didn’t want it...
If the rematch happens doubtful he will win that...
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I've never found AJ convincing, and unfortunately this result confims my suspicions.
F.T.F.A.
Weirdly the heavyweight division was getting a bit of respectability back after years of being in the toilet, never really understood why because the likes of Fury is just an average hitter with good boxing skills, Wilder is a bit hitter with average boxing skills and AJ is another who just goes through the motions without actually looking that impressive.
After the last year where they've all avoided each other as much as possible, signed up with different TV deals, and now that the heavyweight champion with 3 belts looks like the before picture off a weightwatchers advert i can see interest in this division sinking again, hopefully!
The boxer got beaten up by a fighter.
AJ never recovered from the 2 knock downs in the 3rd. He just didn’t look like he wanted to be there, forgot his boxing skills and allowed himself to get dominated every time he made a move.
I never really rated AJ as much as some, never really looked like he had that much heart to me. I thought he had improved over his last couple of fights and had the ability to become a really good fighter. Not so sure now.....
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Just aswell I did not stay up to watch the fight. You cannot beat a good scrap.
AJ did not spend enough time training with US Navy Seals.
I would readily get in the ring with the pair of them for that kind of money.
As it would be a ‘once in a lifetime’ experience, I could not swerve the opportunity to try out my left hook on one of them before my lights went out! IF I woke up afterwards, bingo, the payday! Yes, I know, fantasy rules!
I didn't watch the fight but his heart being questioned seems like a load of crap.Remember him geting off the deck to beat Klit, that took some bottle.
Never mind training with navy seals, he probably didn't spar enough.Lennox Lewis had a couple of wobbles but i still rate him near the top of the Heavyweight tree.
I hope Joshua proves to be more Lewis than Brumo
AJ has been riding his luck the last few fights.
He's only really been punched clean 3/4 times and been completely wobbled.
Dillian left hook
Povetkin hook
Klit 1/2
Now Ruiz.
He doesn't have a chin, he's stiff and his defence is actually dreadful once someone pressures him.
Fury would out point him easily and Wilder is 50/50 whoever lands first.
Fury is the best of the lot.
To be fair most heavyweights would make any other boxer look like they didn’t have a good chin with a semi good punch. They wouldn’t be fighting at that level if they couldn’t punch.
It's just a matter of time...
The difference between Lewis and Joshua is that Lewis was never outclassed in his defeats, whereas, last night, Joshua was.
For example, Lewis was caught by a single big punch in the first Rahman fight because he got over confident - in the rematch, Lewis demolished Rahman.
Last night, Joshua was out-boxed for most of the fight, then was out of it after the fourth knock down.
Joshua is no Lewis and never will be.
Wilder, and certainly Fury, would beat Joshua.
The right hand Wilder used in his last fight was text book how to throw a straight back hand, hips rotated with the punch, shoulder behind it and threw it through his opponent.
Fury is sloppy and doesn't punch his weight but they drew??
As i said, i didn't see the fight and i hope Joshua comes back.
How mobile was Joshua, what was his head movement like??
Also his opponent, did he come straight forward or did he use angles and lateral movement? If he just came straight forward Joshua has no excuses.
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The worst of it was the way he effectively quit at the end. Joshua is an athlete and a decent boxer, but not a fighter on the evidence of last night. Someone like Fury is made of completely different stuff and I'm not sure that's something that can be changed in a training camp.
Joshua, from Youtube replays I saw, looked stiff and wasn’t flowing in his work. More Bruno like tbh. Ruiz kept the pressure up and came in close with quick hand speed. Dunno how great Joshua’s chin is but normally a Mexican boxer will be a tough cookie. Once Joshua got put down he seemed to lose any idea of what to do next and that is a worrying trait. I guess preparing for one opponent and then the type switching can have an effect but in heavyweight boxing you can’t dick around as any one punch can take you out.
It was that stiffness ala Bruno that i didn't like from the off and was hoping he'd lay off the weights.
I remember seeing him as an amateur at the multi nationals in Liverpool and he was about 2 stone lighter than now.
Training with navy seals might be great for his fitness but it adds nothing technically.
It wasn't till Bruno won the world title that he learned what should come naturally when you get heard ie get hold or run but the same Bruno with all his technical short comings never lacked bottle.
Did Joshua get behind his jab at all or not?
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Fair enough and sorry for biting.
I don't know whether Wilder is a banger but the technique was superb. Having said that, his opponent didn't help himself by walking onto it.
Fury doesn't seem to do anything right but he is loose so when he gets tagged he can ride the punch, if he sees it.
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Last edited by RD200; 2nd June 2019 at 15:17.
As soon as I heard that you could get odd of 25-1 on Rulz my immediate reaction was that the fix could be on. I mean 25-1 on a two horse race!!!
Not suggesting for a moment that AJ threw it, but it makes you wonder. Clearly he was well off the pace.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Having watched it live, I have to say I disagree with you about the Wilder vs Fury fight.
Yes it was a magnificent punch from Wilder in the 12th, but Fury completely out-boxed him from a technncal point of view in almost every round.
Whilst Fury was "sloppy" in letting Wilder hit him with that big punch in the 12th after defending against his big shots so well up until then, he certainly isn't a sloppy fighter from a technical point of view - whereas Wilder is a technically sloppy fighter, but with a huge punch.
Fury may not be a big puncher, but he is arguably the most technically gifted heavyweight in a long time - as Klitschko found out in Germany.
In fact, after getting back up in the 12th against Wilder he managed to dominate him - quite a feat!
Despite that big knock down against Wilder, you'd be hard pushed to find many boxing experts who thought Wilder had done enough to draw the match on points - that is why there hasn't been a rematch; Wilder and his team don't want it.
That Fury managed all this in his first decent fight after a long lay off implies to me that if there every is a Wilder rematch, or a Joshua fight, Fury would win on points against both.
Last edited by CamCG; 2nd June 2019 at 16:22.
Anthony Joshua just seems like an overhyped poundland version of Frank Bruno.
I agree Fury beat Wilder but the punch i was referring to was against Dominic Breazeale.
I don't think I've mentioned the Fury-Wilder fight at all.
I've got to admit that since jacking in coaching amateur boxing I've not kept up with boxing at all even though GGG is one of the best 160lb'ers ever and a superb all rounder.
Heavyweight boxing has always gone through phases like all sports. We've had Jack Johnson 08-15, Jack Dempsey 19-26, Joe Louis 37-49, Marciano 52-56, Ali 64-67 and 74-78 then Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and more recently the two Klits who've really dominated.
We're in a lull at the moment.
By the way, if you want to see a heavyweight throw combinations watch Joe Louis, he was f*****g beautiful and while i don't subscribe to older athletes being better than modern, he was awesome.
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Last edited by RD200; 2nd June 2019 at 16:46.
Honestly think AJ massively underetimated Ruiz despite what he says. Anyone who is already discussing future fights clearly considers there up and coming fight a done deal. Ruiz had absoltely nothing to lose. He was expected to lose so may as well go for it and he really did.
AJ getting knocked down wasn't overly worrying as pretty much everyone has the power to knock some one down in that division. What was concerning was despite AJ's amateur pedigree his inability to go back to his fundamentals when rocked.
Completely agree and it wouldn't be the first time for a heavyweight boxer, a boxer at any weight or sportsperson from any sport.
The parallels with Bruno not knowing what to do when hurt are all there.
Its all instinct, flight or fight.
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Last edited by RD200; 2nd June 2019 at 16:55.
Exactly this.
I think AJ simply didn't have a plan B when it became apparent that Ruiz wasn't going to be the walk over he (and to be fair most people) envisioned.
I genuinely think he has a sparking future in the division so hope he takes the loss and learns from it.
AJ is a beast but he's a stiff beast who got a decent clump on the head and then couldn't cope with Ruiz's hand speed inside. AJ should have got behind his jab but instead it was non existent and when he threw a power punch, Ruiz stepped inside and battered him.
Ruiz could take Wilder with similar tactics but I suspect Fury would maintain the distance and clinch so much more effectively than AJ.
I'm not a big AJ fan but he's a relative novice in terms of amateur and pro experience. He looked totally lost last night at the end but classy in defeat when speaking afterwards.
AJ needs to be more mobile with the smaller guys, the comparisons with Bruno are pretty fair although the two punch combo he put Ruiz down with were quicker than I thought he could manage.
Manufactured boxer / gym freak meets natural fighter with heavy hands.
AJ is just too easy to hit and lacks a fighters instincts.
Wilder would knock him out, Fury would embarrass him.
I can see AJ getting frozen out now because of his arrogance and the arrogance of his management, nobody is going to give them anything or any opportunity.
Absolutely agree. In the rematch AJ will IMHO destroy him. AJ needs to change his strategy when boxing a fighter.
AJ Took the fight to Andy and made a mess of it. Total Respect to the underdog. This is great for the heavy weight division.
Six packs and bulging muscles don’t necessarily win fights.
Six packs and bulging muscles don’t necessarily win fights.
I had a similar conversation with someone just before Tim Witherspoon defended his title against Frank Bruno in 1986.
Bruno's muscles had muscles but the American in comparison looked flabby.
This bloke told me Bruno would hammer Witherspoon based on his muscularity.
Witherspoon had narrowly lost to a great world champion in Larry Holmes and was and still is vastly underrated.
Bruno was losing but not doing badly till they swapped right hands in the 11th and he went down and was stopped.
Bruno made a couple of million from the fight but poor old Witherspoon was managed and promoted by Don King and his stepson Carl and he got buttons.
Witherspoon faced staying with King and earning pennies or being frozen out of the heavyweight scene altogether.
In a fight with Bonecrusher Smith, who he should have toyed with, he just gave up and was stopped in the first.
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It’s really sad when you look at the heavyweight division nowadays as when I was younger there was Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Kenny Norton, Ernie Shavers all around at the same time and all of whom would win today. Then a few really good ones like Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and even Evander Holyfield who although really a beefed up light heavy/cruiserweight had great boxing skills.
I admire anyone who gets in the ring with these monsters as it takes some courage but have to question the wisdom of some of them. I fought amateur for many years and it wasn’t fun sometimes. AJ changed his defence for this fight and gave Ruiz all he needed - a punchers chance.
There'll never be an era like the 70's for the heavyweights.there was of course Ali the king. George Foreman, Joe Frazier and Larry Holmes get in anybodys top 10 of all time. In no particular order Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Mac Foster, George Chuvalo, Ringo Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis, Joe Bugner, Larry Middleton, Jimmy Young, Al blue Lewis and the unforgettable Jerry Quarry.
Quarry who ended up with Pugilistica Dymentia had 2 wars with Joe Frazier, got beaten twice by Ali and past his best by Ken Norton...... But against the big bangers Ron Lyle, Mac Foster and Earnie Shavers he had 3 stoppage wins.
Quarry was poison for the bangers who he walked on to his left hook. There were rumours around during the young George Foreman's march to the world title that he avoided Quarry and in the 90's when he was asked he said it was true.
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Trouble with some of these muscle bound guys is that they aren't supple, Bruno/AJ for example. Great characters but just can't throw punches from any angle. You have to be able to slip, bob and weave and throw shots from any angle or range. Great example was Tyson, a beast, fearless and so so supple for a heavyweight, just lost the plot along the way which is a shame as he could have ruled for many a year
Tyson had superb head and lateral movement and worked the angles to land his right hook/right uppercut when he had his opponents on the ropes.
Bruno, because of his muscle mass couldn't throw a proper left hook but then again Ali didn't have the punch repertoire of Joe Louis.
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I think the rise of AJ is the stuff of marketing genius in addition to raw talent. The issue with AJ, though, is he took up boxing around 20 years of age. He, therefore, has at least a decade less of muscle memory compared to his peers and it really shows
I think he was outclassed from pretty much the start. He knocked down Ruiz but very soon after Ruiz got back in the dominant position and AJ just did not know what to do. I don't think he can make the requisite changes to get back to the top position and frankly speaking, I don't think he will be signing up to fight the big pinchers because he won't be able to tolerate their power. Kudos if he does manage to sort himself out though
Last edited by halfpasttwothirty; 3rd June 2019 at 09:05. Reason: Better quality