Reply With QuoteThe pip does look a little off. Could it simply be an aftermarket bezel insert?
Like many people on here I love Rolex divers. I currently own a SD16600 and SubC date but fancied a more svelte wearing 14060M 2 liner.
I managed to source a nice one from a reputable online dealer. The watch looked immaculate in photos and was a full set. It had also been serviced and checked so I thought I was buying in complete confidence.
When the watch arrived it was indeed a beauty but unfortunately was running 19s fast per day. Back it went and it was regulated to 3-4s per day so all good there.
However, I noticed there was practically no lume from the bezel insert pip while the dial and hands were quite strong. This got me looking at the lume pip more closely and it just does not look right compared to pictures of other subs online. To my eyes it is smaller, taller and whiter than almost very other 5 digit sub I see online. It actually looks more like a SubC lume pip!
Photos below of my watch
And a couple of random photos of subs online.
So I defer to the great expertise I know exists on here - am I worrying unnecessarily (for example could it be a service insert?) or is something not quite right.
Many thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
Jim
The pip does look a little off. Could it simply be an aftermarket bezel insert?
My four liner
Last edited by davida; 1st June 2019 at 16:30.
That is my worry - I just assumed buying from a reputable dealer then all would be original.Originally Posted by jimmbob
Your 4 liner is exactly how I would expect it to appear - wider and flatter.
Looks more like the small pip from a ceramic bezel insert.
Look at the dozen or so 14060Ms that I’ve sold since 2014. All have an insert of the style that is not like yours.
https://www.miltonaires.com/?s=14060m&post_type=product
H
Thanks Haywood - yes the one I have is the odd one out and as you say very much like a ceramic pip.
Pip certainly looks different. The retaining circle on yours is smaller than others shown which protude well outside the triangle. Whether it's a bezel from another model Rolex or just aftermarket I don't know enough to say.
Your favorite thing about the ceramic inserts:-)
BTW, on the ceramic inserts the pip practically forms an 'inscribed circle'- meaning it touches all three sides which form a tangent to the circle
Last edited by RAJEN; 1st June 2019 at 16:51.
BTW, on the ceramic inserts the pip practically forms an 'inscribed circle'- meaning it touches all three sides which form a tangent to the circle[/QUOTE]
Checked my SubC and it’s exactly as you say - at least that’s right!
Thanks - mine is within the triangle touching 2 sides.
Just replace the insert at RSC for fifty bucks. That’s the beauty of pre-ceramics IMHO.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, after you've got the 50 'bucks' back from the dealer who sold it
That would be my plan!Yeah, after you've got the 50 'bucks' back from the dealer who sold it
Looks like someone put the 5513/1680 pip on it.
Thank you - just been online and that is a really good shout. Do you think it is just the pip - is the insert okay?
Jim
I’d get a refund.
One problem is unfortunate, two problems is a pattern and I’d worry you are yet to find the third.
Thanks for the advice.
Ultimately this is my backstop if it goes that far- I didn’t want to overreact hence the thread to gauge others reaction. I want to be completely sure of my facts. This includes using information from this great forum and possibly a visit to Rolex in London.
Have you drawn the dealer’s attention to its unusual nature?
If so, what have they said about it?
I have. This is what they have said:
“When we have these watches in and test them they also check for originality so the bezel has been off and we’ve looked at the back of the insert which is the way to make sure it’s Rolex.
It might be a service replacement or it might be the original one – with older watches that were made in far fewer numbers the variance in minor changes in specifications is far easier to spot
With models that were made in the hundreds of thousands like this, variances like this are extremely difficult to definitively tie down
For a watch of this year, you certainly shouldn’t be concerned that it has no loom on the pip”
It’s all the more galling because an experienced dealer who handles Rolex day in day out should know the pip is wrong for this model.
If the rest of the watch is good and you’ve got a 5513 insert, buying a new one from RSC seems like the best option.
You’ll probably be able to sell the 5513 insert for more than you pay for the 14060 one.
I don’t think it’s a 5513 insert.
Definitely not right. I've got a 16610 (4 liner) on my wrist (2007 V serial) and it definitely does not look like that.
It's not the lack of 'loom' that worries (although the spelling grates), it's the fact that it's the wrong insert, and the fact that an apparently recently serviced watch was running +19s per day. I would definitely reject it. There are plenty of these about and you can do better this one.
Where would I stand if I asked for a refund - the 14 day online buying return period has elapsed? I suppose it is not as described.
Exactly this.
Cheers H, best ignore my last post!
Seems to me confidence has been lost. Maybe the seller isn’t all you hoped they were ...
You will find out for sure when you request a refund.
I’m very disappointed for sure - they are well thought of with loads of testimonials.
As has been said by others - a full set does not guarantee full authenticity.
The main suggestion so far is to request a refund. An alternative, is to change the insert at Rolex and recharge.
In terms of a refund, while not as described, how does it work as I have worn the watch - are they entitled to a restocking fee or does consumer protection allow me a full refund no matter what?
In any case, I paid by credit card so I guess I have ultimate protection.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
First question is what do you want?
If you have lost confidence then ask for a refund and see what happens. If they are a decent outfit I’m sure they will take it back.
If you are minded to work through the issues explain your position and set out your expectations. Again if they are decent they should be willing to follow this route.
If you get into quotation of consumer rights is all gone ...
Okay - many thanks and appreciate your views.
I’m going to contact the dealer tomorrow and work through potential options. I really like the watch and I suppose all is not lost if we can come to an arrangement over replacement of the pip and bezel insert.
If not, I will be asking for a full refund.
I’ll keep the forum updated.
Below is my 14060, it’s an early watch so has a tritium bezel pip and a flat 4 on the 40, the pip doesn’t glow on mine but then it shouldn’t being so old.
If yours is original then it should be luminova going by the rest of the watch which should glow, if it’s an original recent replacement it should also glow, but most of all the pip is far smaller and higher than mine and other pics online, it looks to have been changed and has a high probability it’s not genuine.
Do you have the sellers original sales images?
Have a look at this link for more info - https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...4060-to-14060M
Here is mine
Last edited by murkeywaters; 3rd June 2019 at 05:31.
Thank you - some seller’s pics below
And another one
Those photos are very poor, but you can see the pip issue.
Sorry to mention this but are the OP's lugs not quite as defined as they could be? Possibly over polished?
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Horrible photos to be fair, and in all but one of them the right hand prong of the crown logo looks bendy, just poor photographs I'm sure, but none the less, multi thousand pound watches from a dealer deserve better presentation in my view. The average sales corner post knocks those pics out of the water.
Agree.
Id push for a refund if I were you.
They have been polished but okay when look at it in person.
So long as you're happy that's the important thing. Do you have a date for the watch?
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
To be honest I think they are better on the site - maybe my fault - loading a copy with lower resolution. I’ve sent comments to him so will update the thread when a response comes through.
I’m not an expert though so I’m never quite sure when it stretches into the realm of over-polishing. Watch is 2002.
Ah, fair enough. Hopefully they offer a proper resolution. Good luck.
I thought the lugs looked a bit off in the OP pics, the sellers images do look like the lugs/case sides have been polished, not by Rolex by the looks of it.
Also, the bezel is either one notch out or it does not line up with the 12 going by the sellers first image.
A lot depends on the price you paid, if it was classed as cheap then you have to allow for some issues.
I've pushed for a refund as a preferred course of action from my side. I await their views.
I spoke to the dealer and the watch is to be returned tomorrow for a refund. I had the option of reimbursement of a new bezel insert by Rolex but as this is the the second issue with the watch I went for the refund. The majority advice on here swayed my opinion too.
I'm grateful to all who contributed - thank you. I knew TZ members would steer me in the right direction!
Jim
Well that is a fair outcome; once you have a few issues it takes the shine off the whole episode and sometimes it is just sensible to reset and start looking again.
I had a similar experience with a vintage Top Time ... in the end much as I wanted it the love had evaporated and a refund was the best solution.
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