Paypal buyer protection advice please - happy update and thanks!

[jacinabox]

I'm having difficulties with a company that I bought a petrol self propelled mower from, purchased using PP and I need some advice as to whether or not I might be covered with buyer protection.

My lawns are tiered and the mower needs to be "lugged" up steps to the next cutting area. I'm getting on a wee bit now and new knee last year has left me a little less strong than I'd like, but hey-ho!

So, one of the qualities that was important to me was the weight of the machine, sellers site listed it at 28kg; a little lighter than the mower it was replacing so I reckoned I'd be fine. Went ahead and made the purchase, delivery was made and I unpacked the thing...a drop of petrol and oil and off I went. It felt heavy but I didn't think too much of it - first cut of the year and a little out of condition for garden duties perhaps?

No, when I looked at the mower manufacturers site it's weight was listed at 38kg; a 10kg difference which is a lot.

Spoke to the seller and pointed out their listing error and that I had used the machine, they wanted me to email them with my concerns and didn't seem off handed or disinterested. Did say I wouldn't get a full refund and the amount would be assessed when they receive the mower - deliver to them at my cost.

Since last week I haven't been able to contact the person who was dealing with my "ticket" by phone or email.

It was their listing error, if I was aware that it was 38kg I wouldn't have bought it.

While I'm prepared to take a small hit on my purchase cost as the mower has been used (remains immaculate, original docs and accessories/packing) against a replacement, if they want to impose unreasonable conditions (return at my cost / assess refund amount on arrival with them) do I stand any chance with PayPal with the item being mis-described.

Much prefer to agree an amicable solution with seller without resorting to PP but it's not proving easy!

Thoughts please :)

David

[PhilipK]

Your problem will be that you have used the mower, so it's no longer in the condition that it was delivered in, and the seller won't be able to re-sell it as new/unused. If you had noticed the extra weight before you had used it (isn't 20/20 hindsight great?) then you'd have no problems.

Your best bet (if you can't work things out amicably with the seller) is to raise a SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) claim through PayPal and hope that they find in your favour - in which case you'd get a full refund and the seller would have to pay for the return. I'd expect the seller to contest the claim, though, which is why I'd definitely try to reach an agreement with the seller before raising a claim.

[ralphy]

I wouldn't expect you'll have a problem with PayPal given the circs you've described, 10Kg extra on top of an advertised 28Kg is substantial.

Keep us posted on how you get on.

[Merkaholic]

I would not waste any time with the seller. Go straight to PP. Good luck. Keep us posted.

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[IAmATeaf]

Make sure you take screenshots of the ad as it was to back up the error.

[Weirdfish]

It's why PayPal is there, protects the buyers more so than the sellers.
If the seller has stopped responding then simply raise a case through PayPal, the seller will then have the opportunity to sort it out before they step in.
Good Luck.

[jacinabox]

Thanks for your thoughts!

Strangely, within an hour of making this post the seller (not eBay btw) sent me a email...they'll plan to use their courier (at my cost) to pick the mower up and as I expected, will decide how much to refund after inspection. Not unreasonable I suppose.
No mention of how much the return cost will be or any rough indication of refund amount though.

I've asked them for cost of return and an indication of refund...feel I'm opening myself up for serious disappointment sending it back without knowing a rough figure.

I'll give them until early next week to respond, then it's off to PP.

Despite telling them three times their listing weight is wrong, it still is.
How do I get evidence that the weight is wrong...I've emailed the current link to myself, but if I do go to PP and they correct the description, I'm stuffed.
I've got a printout - would that work for PP?

Really want to do this amicably without resorting to PP

David

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[jacinabox]

Make sure you take screenshots of the ad as it was to back up the error.

That's what I've been trying to do...beyond me.
How do I get that so it'll be in a format I can send to PP?

David

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[Dave+63]

I wouldn’t accept that; you should tell them that you want a full refund or its the small claims court.

You need a lightweight mower and bought it based on an advertised weight of 28kg. It turned out to be nearly 40% heavier which you discovered having used it once, felt it was rather heavy and doing some subsequent research.

You can’t reasonably be expected to do further research before you use it so I don’t see the seller would have a leg to stand on. The fact that it has now been used and can no longer be sold as brand new is their problem due to their misleading advertising. It isn’t reasonable to expect you to pay for their errors.

Full refund so you’re not out of pocket is only fair IMHO.

[Merkaholic]

I wouldn’t accept that; you should tell them that you want a full refund of its the small claims court.

You need a lightweight mower and bought it based on an advertised weight of 28kg. It turned out to be nearly 40% heavier which you discovered having used it once and felt it was rather heavy and subsequent research.

You can’t reasonably be expected to do further research before you use it so I don’t see the seller would have a leg to stand on. The fact that it has now been used and can no longer be sold as brand new is their problem due to their misleading advertising. It isn’t reasonable to expect you to pay for their errors.

Full refund so you’re not out of pocket is only fair IMHO.

I totally agree.......... Be polite but firm.

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[Kingstepper]

Playing Devil's advocate here - with such a large weight difference I'd expect the OP to notice before he even used it.

[jacinabox]

Playing Devil's advocate here - with such a large weight difference I'd expect the OP to notice before he even used it.

Fair point...was unboxed on a lawn, delivery chap dropped it off there, fuelled on away I went. Was only when I tried to move it to next lawn it seemed heavier than I expected. By that time it was used!

Don't think I should've thought to check weight before using it. Shouldn't have to do that when buying from an 30 year established company with a good rep' with the expectation of them getting the spec right, especially as weight might be a critical point in anyone's buying decision?

See what happens now. Got the screenshot of error sorted now :)

David

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[David_D]

I wouldn’t accept that; you should tell them that you want a full refund or its the small claims court.

You need a lightweight mower and bought it based on an advertised weight of 28kg. It turned out to be nearly 40% heavier which you discovered having used it once, felt it was rather heavy and doing some subsequent research.

You can’t reasonably be expected to do further research before you use it so I don’t see the seller would have a leg to stand on. The fact that it has now been used and can no longer be sold as brand new is their problem due to their misleading advertising. It isn’t reasonable to expect you to pay for their errors.

Full refund so you’re not out of pocket is only fair IMHO.

Absolutely agree with this.

Is it the distance selling regs that allow returns even for no reason? I’ve done it a couple of times.

Worth checking if the seller met their onligations for distance selling in the first place:

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distan...for-businesses

[stefmcd]

That's what I've been trying to do...beyond me.
How do I get that so it'll be in a format I can send to PP?

David

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Send me the link and I'll screenshot it for you and email it back to you. :-)

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[David_D]

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/sh...xchange/#goods

What they sent you was clearly not "as described" so that ought to be sufficient.

[Skier]

Post the link here to the page showing the incorrect weight; I'll take a screenshot (actually I'll save the webpage and take a screenshot) and send them both to you via PM.

That's what I've been trying to do...beyond me.
How do I get that so it'll be in a format I can send to PP?

David

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[Onelasttime]

Have they listed the weight without the grass box or something?

Might help if both links to manufacturer and seller's website were posted.

In my day job for a gardening magazine we run lots of On Test features and when checking the specs you'd be amazed how often the websites are incorrect.

If you PM me the urls or at least the make and model of mower I can see if we've featured it and get the specs.

Regardless, if they've listed the wrong weight and you bought on the strength of that, they have to refund in full.

Edit: No idea why that thumbs down icon is in the title?

[jacinabox]

Thanks to all for your replies with extra useful information; will be usefull when I go to PP on Monday - I'll see if seller will respond to my request for costs.

Seller's link to mower, click on specification and the weight is listed at 28kg

https://www.cheapmowers.com/acatalog...80.html#SID=35

Manufaturer's link to mower, click on tech' data weight listed at 38kg...and it feels like it too!

https://weibang.uk.com/index.php/pro...er.html#panel2

Appreciate the offers of getting me screen shots, if you can do it for both the sellers and manufacturers links showing weights, that would be great and I can put them in my tale of woe to PP.

David

[stefmcd]

Sent screenshots but only of mobile screen. If someone can do it on desktop it may be better.

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[Skier]

Screenshots and mhtml files sent for both sites.

Good luck.

[David_D]

Unfortunately, poor service from independents like this drives people into the hands of Amazon etc. I had a piece of gardening equipment fail after 11 months. I only contacted the seller - Amazon - about getting a spare part to fix it. They couldn't supply one so they just arranged to collect the item and gave a full refund.

What's the chance of you - or the rest of us - dealing with this company ever now?


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ard-or-paypal/
If you paid by PayPal

If the item you bought doesn’t match its description or you didn’t receive it, report your dispute on Paypal’s website. You must do this within 180 days (about 6 months) of paying.
If reporting your dispute doesn’t work, you might be able to use chargeback if there’s no money in your PayPal account and you used your debit or credit card to pay through PayPal.
Chargeback is when your card provider asks the seller's bank to refund the money to your account. If successful, you’ll get back the amount you paid by card.
Ask for chargeback within 120 days (about 4 months) of when you paid or noticed the problem. You won't be able to ask if you noticed the problem more than 540 days (about 18 months) after you paid.
If the seller disagrees with your claim, ask your card provider how to appeal under the chargeback scheme.
You won’t be able to use chargeback if you used your debit or credit card to put money into your PayPal account and then use that money to buy something.

[Onelasttime]

Thanks to all for your replies with extra useful information; will be usefull when I go to PP on Monday - I'll see if seller will respond to my request for costs.

Seller's link to mower, click on specification and the weight is listed at 28kg

https://www.cheapmowers.com/acatalog...80.html#SID=35

Manufaturer's link to mower, click on tech' data weight listed at 38kg...and it feels like it too!

https://weibang.uk.com/index.php/pro...er.html#panel2

Appreciate the offers of getting me screen shots, if you can do it for both the sellers and manufacturers links showing weights, that would be great and I can put them in my tale of woe to PP.

David

Unfortunately, there is some confusion across the board about what the weight is.

28kg here …

http://www.thegreenreaper.co.uk/weib...rol-lawn-mower

… and here…

https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo...Sv-WGMP80.html

This place has it as 38kg …

https://www.justlawnmowers.co.uk/law...itional_tabbed

… as does this one …

https://www.mowers-online.co.uk/weib...rol-lawn-mower

These are just the first four hits on a google search, but there is a pretty even match of 28/38kg across a further six websites.

Like I said in my previous post, so many website specs are wrong, but which is right in this case? We always contact the PR or marketing department and get the full spec in writing from them before we publish so it becomes their mistake if it's wrong.

Try contacting the manufacturer to get their take on it?

[jacinabox]

Unfortunately, there is some confusion across the board about what the weight is.

28kg here …

http://www.thegreenreaper.co.uk/weib...rol-lawn-mower

… and here…

https://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalo...Sv-WGMP80.html

This place has it as 38kg …

https://www.justlawnmowers.co.uk/law...itional_tabbed

… as does this one …

https://www.mowers-online.co.uk/weib...rol-lawn-mower

These are just the first four hits on a google search, but there is a pretty even match of 28/38kg across a further six websites.

Like I said in my previous post, so many website specs are wrong, but which is right in this case? We always contact the PR or marketing department and get the full spec in writing from them before we publish so it becomes their mistake if it's wrong.

Try contacting the manufacturer to get their take on it?

That's odd. I could understand one seller getting it wrong but with a spread of right/wrong weights, I'll be contacting Weibang, their site lists 38kg and the mower certainly feels it. It's very much heavier than the rear roller, petrol machine it was meant to replace.

And thanks for your PM too, glad I got your name right!

David

[Kingstepper]

That's odd. I could understand one seller getting it wrong but with a spread of right/wrong weights, I'll be contacting Weibang, their site lists 38kg and the mower certainly feels it. It's very much heavier than the rear roller, petrol machine it was meant to replace.

And thanks for your PM too, glad I got your name right!

David

One person makes a typo and other sellers copy the specs for their listing.

[jacinabox]

All's well in my world of mowers!

Firstly the correct weight of the mower I've got is 39kg with fuel and oil; so the seller was wrong as are all the sites listing at 28kg - poor.

The seller is off the hook...one of my neighbours heard about my woes, came and had a look and took it away for £25 less than I paid. Suited me and I could've done without the to and fro'ing with the seller and PP that was likely to take place. I'm shot off it, neighbour is a happy bunny and I can go and search for a suitable replacement - petrol or cordless?!

Really appreciate all the help and advice you chaps have given, felt confident that had I gone to a dispute I'd have won - thank you! :)

David

[Merkaholic]

I think that's a rather surprising but great outcome.......... Win win

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[stefmcd]

Sensible conclusion.

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[Onelasttime]

All's well in my world of mowers!

Firstly the correct weight of the mower I've got is 39kg with fuel and oil; so the seller was wrong as are all the sites listing at 28kg - poor.

The seller is off the hook...one of my neighbours heard about my woes, came and had a look and took it away for £25 less than I paid. Suited me and I could've done without the to and fro'ing with the seller and PP that was likely to take place. I'm shot off it, neighbour is a happy bunny and I can go and search for a suitable replacement - petrol or cordless?!

Really appreciate all the help and advice you chaps have given, felt confident that had I gone to a dispute I'd have won - thank you! :)

David

I love it when a plan comes together