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Thread: £150k to invest and grow

  1. #1
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    £150k to invest and grow

    Hello

    Looks like I'll have about £150k going spare. Interesting.

    Assuming I don't want to put it into property or pension funds what would be the most lucrative way to invest ?
    I'm assuming speculating on the markets with it is probably the best approach. I did not bad with £60k of gold bullion in the noughties and made about 20% profit in 3-4 months ( was almost a full time job though and to be honest if I had walked awy for a few months instead of being smart I'd probably have made slightly more or the same.

    Cheers for suggestions , columbian nose powder and ladies of the night not required either.

  2. #2
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    Simple solution here, spend 150k on unpopular rolex models now (my tip is polar explorer and Milgauss models) and leave it a few years... kerrrching lol

    Youíre probably going to encounter less hassle investing but with Brexit who knows where to invest, properly is a non no in terms of appreciating but a rental portfolio on the other hand is very lucrative, oh and good time to get an e46 m3 I feel.. prices stating to creep, get a good bargain be now and they will sky rocket

    So maybe a mix of property and rolex, and a bmw m3.... and thereís my awful top for the week finished


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  3. #3
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    What's the timeframe for ROI?

    Can't go wrong with property and if you wanted high yield you could buy and let 2 or even 3 small flats/houses in mid Wales or the north east.

  4. #4
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    1 year bond 2% - no risk joint names until all this unceratinty sh** is over - but when will that be.... but compound interest is your friend when you lend money.

    B

    Corporate bond funds are priced too highly (IMHO) at the moment but I'm yielding 4% - if you have ISA allownaces could be considered.

    Stay away from the dreaded market would I at the moment with Rees Mogg and the likes of Boris and the other Eton mess all shorting around all over the place.

    Just an opinion you understand................No mention of any derivatives you may note.

    I like my money to be my money. :-)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete-r View Post
    What's the timeframe for ROI?

    Can't go wrong with property and if you wanted high yield you could buy and let 2 or even 3 small flats/houses in mid Wales or the north east.
    ROI ... 5 years plus ??? . I was kinda shying away from property. I was under the impression its not great these days. Just sold a house in London.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Proper first world problem

    If you buy "things" then you have to consider the costs and ease associated with selling them, however if it's really burning a hole in your pocket then invest it in something you enjoy. Perhaps a classic car (A X50 Porsche 996 Turbo would be a good starting point, or watches (a selection of 4 or 5 digit Rolex Sports watches) or perhaps some Art ((Bansky, Hirst, etc). The downside with cars is the costs of storage and maintenance, but this is offset by the thrill of driving them.

    The answer is certainly not a boat, a helicopter, race horses or a football club

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  7. #7
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    Best overall performers are tracker funds. Dead easy to buy, cost peanuts to manage and nearly always beat managed funds.

  8. #8
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    Don't buy property. Ethically I don't think it's the right thing to do. I'd be tempted to stick it into the Vantage Lifetracker 100 fund and let it ride, making sure you use the full £20k per annum Isa Allowance

  9. #9
    We were in the same boat recently, we took the simple approach as we wanted to just spend it and forget.

    Bought a flat cost £148,000
    Rent £ 975.00 a month
    Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
    Management fee 8%

    We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.

    A friend would have bought 3 properties in Wales for the same money, but we took the approach that 3 properties could have 3 times the risk if things breaking, and finding tenants etc..

    Is this the right way to invest? Maybe there is a better way but it works for us.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin44 View Post
    Bought a flat cost £148,000
    Rent £ 975.00 a month
    Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
    Management fee 8%

    We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.
    Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks
    This is where I start look a bit stupid, we didnít plan for either we just had the money sitting in the bank earning nothing so bought a flat, we did have a plan that it would earn more than in the bank for now then when my son leaves home he could either rent it cheap or we could sell it to give him a deposit.

    If you asked me today Iíd say, the monthly income is going into a saving account which we will use to buy another flat, and when we plan to retire 25-28 years away, we will sell and cash in.

    My wife and I are both pretty happy go lucky people, we have this flat and a small 3 bed that we live in, our monthly out goings are minimal so we live pretty cheaply. I was lucky to have a few jobs that by my needs paid very well so we saved quickly.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Don't buy property. Ethically I don't think it's the right thing to do.
    Can you expand on this?

    Cheers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Can you expand on this?

    Cheers.
    House prices are through the roof because wealthy individuals have bought up "portfolios" of properties to rent (purely because it gives a better return on investment than regular savings and investments) meaning that normal people can't get a foot on the door on the property ladder, perhaps? Probably an unpopular perspective because TZ-UK seems chock full of afluent folks who just happen to stumble on 150K they don't know what to do with but.. I think reflects the view in the real world / of normal people.
    Last edited by chicaneuk; 12th April 2019 at 08:51.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    House prices are through the roof because wealthy individuals are buying up "portfolios" of properties to rent (purely because it gives a better return on investment than regular savings and investments) meaning that normal people can't get a foot on the door on the property ladder, perhaps?
    I had thought that the government's new taxing system on BTL was causing many with (heavily) mortgaged properties to offload these?

  15. #15
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    Funny market to pick a safe / dead cert with current climate

    But classic cars are well becoming very hit and miss and Iíve been in and out for 20 years.
    Property or BtL is still ok but brings with it new tax rules and always a few headaches even if under management

    So as weíre already here on TZ for me has to be watches specifically Mr Wilsdorfs ..I canít see any retraction and itís a fuss free investment you can enjoy....also they are Ďwasting assetsí so CGT is treated differently.

    Also if you have 1 house and need to free up cash itís a challenge if you have 10 Rolex itís easier and there like cash and there portable should you escape the U.K. from Brexit madness ...haha

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwillans View Post
    I had thought that the government's new taxing system on BTL was causing many with (heavily) mortgaged properties to offload these?
    I was talking folks who are buying properties outright rather than people with multiple mortgages. Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    I was talking folks who are buying properties outright rather than people with multiple mortgages. Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.
    The economy needs rented property, or thereíd be no mobility for workers.

    Itís a market economy and itís no less ethical to invest in property than earn 100ks and spend it on cars watches, holidays etc. The worst thing you can do if youíre rich is save your money. Itís better to spend it and create jobs.

  18. #18
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Vanguard global tracker.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    The economy needs rented property, or thereíd be no mobility for workers.

    Itís a market economy and itís no less ethical to invest in property than earn 100ks and spend it on cars watches, holidays etc. .
    I don't think luxuries like watches/cars/holidays are comparable to buying up housing. There's a limited amount of houses in this country, relative to the number of people wanting to buy them.. which is why, relatively, they cost so much.

    Pricing on Rolex's (for example) is only driven by (other) wealthy collectors buying and selling and Rolex's annual price increases.. they can charge what they want as far as I'm concerned as watches are ultimately little more than luxury / un-necessary goods.

  20. #20
    All depends on your attitude to risk.

    Everything is toppy now. House prices, stock market even watches.

    No easy investments at the moment, that why any additional money Iím investing now is just tredding water (and just about keeping up inflation) in a cash ISA.

    Canít risk 40% stock market falls like in the noughties, even if the prospect is low. But, it was considered low in the noughties until it just happened.

  21. #21
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    If you aren't going to invest in property, then wouldn't it be best to spread it around?

    Places you could put some:
    Premium Bonds
    ISAs
    Your mortgage

    I know you exluded pension funds, but it's a very tax efficient way of saving.

  22. #22
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    Ah, I was about to suggest some gear and trannies, oh well. Seriously though, if itís a long term investment , buy an antique art. There is only one way the value of it goes. Plus itís nice to look at and a talking point if you like to entertain.
    In 3... 2... 1... A Kurdish 7yo girl Tweeting in perfect English.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    I don't think luxuries like watches/cars/holidays are comparable to buying up housing. There's a limited amount of houses in this country, relative to the number of people wanting to buy them.. which is why, relatively, they cost so much.

    Pricing on Rolex's (for example) is only driven by (other) wealthy collectors buying and selling and Rolex's annual price increases.. they can charge what they want as far as I'm concerned as watches are ultimately little more than luxury / un-necessary goods.
    Maybe not entirely comparable, but one could argue wasting large sums of money on Luxery goods is no more moral than renting a house.

    As said, the multiplier effect of this Ďwastedí money does help the economy. But so does providing rented accommodation.

    I think itís a complex situation but I donít think itís black and white to say itís unethical to rent a house or flat.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    I think itís a complex situation but I donít think itís black and white to say itís unethical to rent a house or flat.
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.
    Lots are. But if there werenít any weíd have all been living at home.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by justin44 View Post
    This is where I start look a bit stupid, we didnít plan for either we just had the money sitting in the bank earning nothing so bought a flat, we did have a plan that it would earn more than in the bank for now then when my son leaves home he could either rent it cheap or we could sell it to give him a deposit.

    If you asked me today Iíd say, the monthly income is going into a saving account which we will use to buy another flat, and when we plan to retire 25-28 years away, we will sell and cash in.

    My wife and I are both pretty happy go lucky people, we have this flat and a small 3 bed that we live in, our monthly out goings are minimal so we live pretty cheaply. I was lucky to have a few jobs that by my needs paid very well so we saved quickly.
    It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

    For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

    For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.
    We are in a position that I thinks is weighed in the landlords favour, the flat is near a university so itís always students, there is a huge shortage of good property to rent in the area so even when one student left early the flat was only empty 1 day. The management agents are based at the flats and view the property every month.

    I agree itís always a risk, but so is life.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.
    Having said that, I never met an owner occupier student.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Having said that, I never met an owner occupier student.
    What can I tell you? I saw Anthony Sher in Singer in '89 and it left an indelible impression.

  30. #30
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    See my thread re whisky.

    Bought several bottles (advised which ones) over 10 years ago,one bottle of AH Hirsch cost me £30 ish and checked last night whilst having a few drinks of my useable whisky with the Son in law,now worth over 2k.......very happy indeed.
    I did buy them after hearing whisky was a good investment and mine it seems certainly were,I'll be going back to the same shop in Skipton to do the same again soon.With hindsight I wish I'd bought for eg 4 or 5 bottles per year as an investment looking at mine now.


  31. #31
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    Unicorn horns.
    I've doubled my money over the last fortnight.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Unicorn horns.
    I've doubled my money over the last fortnight.
    You were ripped off,they be Mammoth tusks not Unicorn horns.


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    See my thread re whisky.

    Bought several bottles (advised which ones) over 10 years ago,one bottle of AH Hirsch cost me £30 ish and checked last night whilst having a few drinks of my useable whisky with the Son in law,now worth over 2k.......very happy indeed.
    I did buy them after hearing whisky was a good investment and mine it seems certainly were,I'll be going back to the same shop in Skipton to do the same again soon.With hindsight I wish I'd bought for eg 4 or 5 bottles per year as an investment looking at mine now.
    Problem is thereís never any guarantees on this kind of thing. Whisky market seems ripe for a decline after years of boom.. not sure thatís where I would be investing at this point but people who bought wisely 10+ years ago on rare expressions are probably laughing all the way to the bank, like yourself!

  34. #34
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    I used to regularly buy ( and drink) bottles of Rosebank in the noughties. Probably less than £40 a pop. Now the cheapest expression is £400 and others regularly hit £2000.

  35. #35
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    I am struggling with the idea of Whisky as an investment.

    If you buy it and then drink it, surely it's a consumable and once it's gone it's gone.

    If you keep it, with a view of selling it later, then its effectively "art" i.e glass statute filled with brown water, in which case Lalique might be a better option.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    You were ripped off,they be Mammoth tusks not Unicorn horns.
    BOIIOCKS!
    Knew I shouldn't have trusted that adviser.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I am struggling with the idea of Whisky as an investment.

    If you buy it and then drink it, surely it's a consumable and once it's gone it's gone.

    If you keep it, with a view of selling it later, then its effectively "art" i.e glass statute filled with brown water, in which case Lalique might be a better option.
    On the plus side, it's a wasting asset I guess...so no CGT.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.
    Hopefully you have matured now.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    BOIIOCKS!
    Knew I shouldn't have trusted that adviser.....



    On the plus side, it's a wasting asset I guess...so no CGT.
    Currently , but then no CGT on watches, cars. either.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  39. #39
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    Couple of Lamborghini Gallardoís with gated manual transmissions Then hype them up on Instagram and YouTube amongst the elite rich car community and youíll make thousands.

  40. #40
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    The old holiday camp in Hemsby Norfolk is being considered as a place for ex sevicemen and women to rehabilitate and train for reintegration to civilian life, to avoid the "drop". If you gave it to me, I would give it to them. Feel free to cut out the middle man.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Couple of Lamborghini Gallardoís with gated manual transmissions Then hype them up on Instagram and YouTube amongst the elite rich car community and youíll make thousands.
    Wow never knew you could get a Gallardo for that sort of money , seen a couple below the £75k mark.
    I kinda doubt its a viable investment though no?


    Funnily enough I shot with one on a film set in 2012 and it was a piece of garbage. ( I had to show the stunt driver how to start it) Think I drove it at 3mph in the clearance depot at the airport for about 30ft.

    paint bubbles and scuffs up close and the engine sounded like it had a bag of nails in it. Admittedly you are unlikely to give a film unit a pristine one but it was extremely disappointing in the flesh. Got lots of attention though.

  42. #42
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    Fish and chip shop ?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.
    Why do people on this forum have a thing about landlords?

  44. #44
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    Crypto currency ?

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.
    Funny that, as a landlord students in my experience make the worst tenants.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks
    Looks like an income play, at a shade over 6% before maintenance costs. That a very high rent for a £148k flat, by comparison for £975 pcm you get to rent a £350k apartment in Didsbury.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin44 View Post
    We were in the same boat recently, we took the simple approach as we wanted to just spend it and forget.

    Bought a flat cost £148,000
    Rent £ 975.00 a month
    Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
    Management fee 8%

    We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.

    A friend would have bought 3 properties in Wales for the same money, but we took the approach that 3 properties could have 3 times the risk if things breaking, and finding tenants etc..

    Is this the right way to invest? Maybe there is a better way but it works for us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

    For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.
    Was £148,000 inclusive of SDLT (including 3% extra for 2nd property) and legal fees? Obviously agent's and legal fees when you come to sell too. And the Government has a higher rate of CGT for residential property.

    Your current yield is fine but you need to think of new carpets and redecoration every 5-10 years and maybe new kitchen at, say, 10 years - and that's just fixing wear and tear not damage that Mr P refers to. Service charges and management fees can increase. With flats there's always the 'bad neighbour' blight which is out of your control but can affect your rent and potentially ability to let. You've presumably got some landlord's insurance in place (even if buildings cover is included in the management charge). There'll always be some void periods - even if that's just while you have decorating carried out, etc..

    With a single property, there's no 'averaging' as you get with multiple properties so your income return is potentially very volatile.

    In terms of tax, apart from sharing income and gains with your spouse, there's limited planning scope. If you have a £100,000 latent gain on some shares or funds, you can manage disposals over a few tax years to take advantage of multiple annual allowances. (And, as I mentioned, any CGT on shares, etc., is at a lower rate than property.)
    Last edited by David_D; 14th April 2019 at 16:58.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Looks like an income play, at a shade over 6% before maintenance costs. That a very high rent for a £148k flat, by comparison for £975 pcm you get to rent a £350k apartment in Didsbury.
    So many factors but certainly it's my experience that rents are not proportionate to property values and the higher the value, the lower the gross % return.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicaneuk View Post
    Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.
    The "amateurs" with 1 or 2 properties are definitely more likely to be selling up as the various legal/regulatory/tax changes make it more expensive and more hassle. Where property prices have stagnated for years, like round where I am, there were quite a few "accidental" landlords where people let when they moved as they couldn't sell. As prices and demand have started to creep up, albeit slowly, that's been the signal for them to sell up.

  50. #50
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    update on this;

    it was actually £200k , I now have to hang onto it for the next few months. I can put half into a nationwide loyalty savings account with no restrictions and get about 1%.
    Any suggestions wha to do with it short term? I can't spend it or lock it up until maybe the end of the year and I can't risk losing any of it till after then also.

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