The Vacheron Constantin Overseas "Small Model" 2300V

[mjgerrard]

Hey guys,

The VC Overseas Generation 3 has been getting alot more coverage in the press and YouTube lately and it has had me captivated for quite some time now. I think i'm going to take the plunge, but I do prefer more "classic" sized watches.

A bit of a curve ball is my discovery of the Overseas 2300V small model which appears to be a bit of a rarity online and elsewhere. I think it's rather nice and seems to fit the bill a bit better with regards to size for me personally. Also, it appears to come with the same blue dial, same strap changing system and overall design cues that the standard 4500V model does. Still Geneva seal too, but given the movement is smaller, the power reserve is less than the 4500V. It's generally referred to as the "small model" but some sites refer to it as a ladies watch, while others (such as WoS) refer to it as a small men's watch.

Has anyone ever seen or tried one of these on?



https://www.chrono24.co.uk/vacheronc...-id8585563.htm


I can *just* about get away with the size of the popular 41mm Overseas 4500V but given the press coverage of the standard 41mm model I would expect the resale value to hold a little stronger than this rarer small model.

So the other question is (other than general opinions welcomed), would you go for it over the standard model? Would the challenge of moving it on for sale cause you to go for the standard model, even if the 41mm is a little on the large side?

Michael.

[Thom4711]

I have the full size model and would say, firstly, that it’s a completely wonderful watch. It wears a bit smaller on the leather and rubber btw. If the model you have in mind has the same blue dial and the-very handy- strap changing technology then you are onto a winner!

You’re probably right in your assumption that the smaller model would be harder to move on- probably because the full size overseas is not massive and likely to fit most wrists (unlike the 41mm Royal Oak which wears surprisingly large). In my mind, I think this overseas is slightly closer to a ladies model than, say, the 37mm Royal Oak which wears more like a 39 or 40mm watch and is legitimately unisex imho.

Having said all that, I would always buy what you actually want rather than thinking about selling before you even have it! I also think you’d get a better discount on this model to start with.

[mjgerrard]

I have the full size model and would say, firstly, that it’s a completely wonderful watch. It wears a bit smaller on the leather and rubber btw. If the model you have in mind has the same blue dial and the-very handy- strap changing technology then you are onto a winner!

You’re probably right in your assumption that the smaller model would be harder to move on- probably because the full size overseas is not massive and likely to fit most wrists (unlike the 41mm Royal Oak which wears surprisingly large). In my mind, I think this overseas is slightly closer to a ladies model than, say, the 37mm Royal Oak which wears more like a 39 or 40mm watch and is legitimately unisex imho.

Having said all that, I would always buy what you actually want rather than thinking about selling before you even have it! I also think you’d get a better discount on this model to start with.

Thanks for the reply Thom. It is a bit of a shame that this 37mm watch isnt 39mm or so as it really be the sweet spot but I certainly see what you're saying on the sizing. On the one hand having tried the 4500V on a couple of times it wore well on the rubber and leather but just on the bracelet it was "borderline". I do intend to keep the watch for life (I plan on getting married with it on!) and therefore the resale value isn't a strong argument against the small model.

I've been looking at multiple dealers on C24 and it seems that the 4500V is around £12.5k new and the small model is actually £13.5k - probably due to the lack of supply. So the small model is actually less of a value proposition.

[gbn13]

I tried one on a while ago, partly because I thought that the larger model was slightly too big for me. I didn’t buy, as I would have preferred if it wasn’t small seconds, plus I couldn’t make up my mind what watches to sell.

A few pics to illustrate size compared to an Explorer.

[Thom4711]

Thanks for the reply Thom. It is a bit of a shame that this 37mm watch isnt 39mm or so as it really be the sweet spot but I certainly see what you're saying on the sizing. On the one hand having tried the 4500V on a couple of times it wore well on the rubber and leather but just on the bracelet it was "borderline". I do intend to keep the watch for life (I plan on getting married with it on!) and therefore the resale value isn't a strong argument against the small model.

I've been looking at multiple dealers on C24 and it seems that the 4500V is around £12.5k new and the small model is actually £13.5k - probably due to the lack of supply. So the small model is actually less of a value proposition.

Yes, the bracelet end links do increase the size slightly, but it’s also super comfortable with the micro adjust. I tend to wear 40mm watches so I shared the same concerns about size - all I can say is that I’m over the moon with the full size model! For the days I want to wear a smaller watch then I have lots of options.

Good luck with your decision and congratulations on the wedding. Perhaps your fiancée could help you decide? Be careful, though, my wife stole the watch I bought myself for our wedding!

[mjgerrard]

I tried one on a while ago, partly because I thought that the larger model was slightly too big for me. I didn’t buy, as I would have preferred if it wasn’t small seconds, plus I couldn’t make up my mind what watches to sell.

A few pics to illustrate size compared to an Explorer.

This is absolutely what I was looking for! Thanks for that!

I had it in my mind that a 36mm watch is well cemented as a gentleman's watch size and given that these watches do tend to wear larger than the 37mm/41mm figures they suggest I was reasonably happy that the "small model" wouldnt be too small. I'd say that small model on your wrist is absolutely perfect size wise.

I also actually prefer the small seconds (and lack of a date), it makes for a more interesting dial.

M.

[mjgerrard]

Yes, the bracelet end links do increase the size slightly, but it’s also super comfortable with the micro adjust. I tend to wear 40mm watches so I shared the same concerns about size - all I can say is that I’m over the moon with the full size model! For the days I want to wear a smaller watch then I have lots of options.

Good luck with your decision and congratulations on the wedding. Perhaps your fiancée could help you decide? Be careful, though, my wife stole the watch I bought myself for our wedding!

I'll be absolutely including her in this purchasing decision

[Eamonn345]

I have just purchased the VC OS 3rd Gen and have tried on the simple date version.

Both wear quite large but the quality is fantastic and up there with Patek and AP. I have an AP R0 15202 which will remain as part of the rotation.

It’s a shame the VC OS 3rd Gen don’t get as much as coverage as the Nautilus/Royal Oak.

I don’t regret buying the VC.






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[optix]

I'd pass on the 2300v the ideal watch for you is the 2000V notwithstanding the price. It's ultra thin & 40MM, the only draw back for me would be that it uses the 1120-1 not the 1120 or the other variations that IMO look better as part of the open caseback.

[ac11111]

Think these are underrated because the first generation overseas was not good looking versus Royal Oak and nautilus of the same era, and the first generation has aged badly.

The second gen overseas was a big big improvement.

The third generation further improved, so much so, that I think it’s up there now with Royal Oak and Nautilus on a like for like basis, and I especially like the overseas bracelet. The Royal Oak and Nautilus has not really changed design over the years so has a lot more recognition.

[mjgerrard]

I'd pass on the 2300v the ideal watch for you is the 2000V notwithstanding the price. It's ultra thin & 40MM, the only draw back for me would be that it uses the 1120-1 not the 1120 or the other variations that IMO look better as part of the open caseback.

Haha the 2000V would be the answer to end all questions. Sadly, I don't have any spare kidneys to flog.

[mjgerrard]

I have just purchased the VC OS 3rd Gen and have tried on the simple date version.

Both wear quite large but the quality is fantastic and up there with Patek and AP. I have an AP R0 15202 which will remain as part of the rotation.

It’s a shame the VC OS 3rd Gen don’t get as much as coverage as the Nautilus/Royal Oak.

I don’t regret buying the VC.






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The panda is certainly the one to have - it looks awesome.

I have a Speedmaster Pro and even through at 42mm it fits well, I don't like that it's so big - and I think the Chrono 5500V is just a push to far in terms of size for me.

[Eamonn345]

The panda is certainly the one to have - it looks awesome.

I have a Speedmaster Pro and even through at 42mm it fits well, I don't like that it's so big - and I think the Chrono 5500V is just a push to far in terms of size for me.

I think a lot of people are put off by (the date placement) the size as you mention. It does wear similar to my pam233 but the bracelet is very comfy. Not for someone that prefers a 40mm or less chrono.


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[mjgerrard]

I think a lot of people are put off by (the date placement) the size as you mention. It does wear similar to my pam233 but the bracelet is very comfy. Not for someone that prefers a 40mm or less chrono.


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Aside from the size I actually don't mind the date placement, and the way it's executed is quite elegant. The font choice is definitely a credit to the design.

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[MartynJC (UK)]

Another brand to investigate at some point. Thanks a bunch guys!!

Martyn.

[mjgerrard]

Another brand to investigate at some point. Thanks a bunch guys!!

Martyn.

Haha you’re welcome! You know very well that we are destined to never get off the merry go round. ;)




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[Itsguy]

Like the OP I find the current standard Overseas way too big and bulky, so I have tried the ‘small model’. It was originally the ladies model, but was quietly rebranded as a unisex watch with some slightly more sober dial options, the blue in particular being lovely. It’s beautifully made and the quick change bracelet / strap options are very clever. There’s even a bit of comfort adjustment in the clasp, allowing you to pull out half a link of extra length to the bracelet, which is really excellent design.

However, even though I have a vanishingly slim 6.5” or thereabouts wrist size, I found it a touch too small. I’ll happily wear a 36mm Oysterquartz or 37mm Royal Oak 14790ST, but here the large bezel keeps the dial size down and the design feels a little dainty for this style of sports watch. The 38mm Laureato wears far better, though unfortunately has little of the appeal. In the end the ‘small model’ was designed as a ladies watch and calling it unisex doesn’t change that. I suspect that a true men’s midsize designed from the ground up would be 38-39mm and have a wider bracelet. Obviously these gender based design cues are entirely optional, so whatever works for you! But personally I’m not parting with that amount of money until they design a proper midsize instead of just changing the label and the dial colour. If they did design one with the right size and proportions, it could just be ‘the one’.

[Itsguy]

Further to the previous post, I found a picture. Here’s the small model on a small wrist. The size of the watch head isn’t bad, but the proportions look different to the full sized model with a narrower bracelet, giving it the ‘unisex’ feeling.



By comparison the 38mm Laureato seems to work better, size-wise at least:



And so does the 36mm Oysterquartz:



And the 37mm 14790ST Royal Oak works better too:



And finally, the first generation Overseas, which I would argue has aged very nicely, is also a better fit than the ‘small model’ or the current full sized model on a thin wrist.



All similar types of watch but for me the Overseas ‘small model’ is the one that doesn’t quite work, in spite of having much the same width. So my conclusion is that the ‘unisex’ proportions aren’t quite right.

Hope that helps!

[mjgerrard]

Further to the previous post, I found a picture. Here’s the small model on a small wrist. The size of the watch head isn’t bad, but the proportions look different to the full sized model with a narrower bracelet, giving it the ‘unisex’ feeling.



By comparison the 38mm Laureato seems to work better, size-wise at least:



And so does the 36mm Oysterquartz:



And the 37mm 14790ST Royal Oak works better too:



And finally, the first generation Overseas, which I would argue has aged very nicely, is also a better fit than the ‘small model’ or the current full sized model on a thin wrist.



All similar types of watch but for me the Overseas ‘small model’ is the one that doesn’t quite work, in spite of having much the same width. So my conclusion is that the ‘unisex’ proportions aren’t quite right.

Hope that helps!

It certainly does, thanks! And appreciate more photo's for comparison.

I think the answer is that I can't buy this unseen. I'll have to make a visit to London to get one on and see what it feels like - to my eye it does work in your photos (Though I agree that the 38mm Laureato does work better). Personal preference is key here but I might also go try it on and come to the very same conclusions as you did.

M.

[Itsguy]

It certainly does, thanks! And appreciate more photo's for comparison.

I think the answer is that I can't buy this unseen. I'll have to make a visit to London to get one on and see what it feels like - to my eye it does work in your photos (Though I agree that the 38mm Laureato does work better). Personal preference is key here but I might also go try it on and come to the very same conclusions as you did.

M.

I guess it's not that it doesn't work at all, you could certainly wear it, but in person I wasn't quite convinced it was the one. As you can see I'm a fan of this style of watch and have spent some time trying to find one that's right for a slim wrist. Definitely the right conclusion is to try it in person, it may work better on you. But when I did that it just didn't feel like the one - especially at that price, which would have meant trading in some of the others which fit better. I'd have been sorely tempted to if the fit was as good as some of the others, as the watch itself is great in theory.

[mjgerrard]

I guess it's not that it doesn't work at all, you could certainly wear it, but in person I wasn't quite convinced it was the one. As you can see I'm a fan of this style of watch and have spent some time trying to find one that's right for a slim wrist. Definitely the right conclusion is to try it in person, it may work better on you. But when I did that it just didn't feel like the one - especially at that price, which would have meant trading in some of the others which fitted better. I'd have been sorely tempted to if the fit was as good as some of the others, as the watch itself is great in theory.

Indeed - i'm reducing the collection down to go all-in on a watch that "does everything" and that is certainly a theory. If anything the smaller size works better for me as a dress watch on the leather, but again you're right in that when it sits on the wrist it might just feel all out of proportion. Having the comparison to an Explorer specifically and other models you've put up in your post go half way, but the trying on is what will seal the deal (or not).

[Itsguy]

Indeed - i'm reducing the collection down to go all-in on a watch that "does everything" and that is certainly a theory. If anything the smaller size works better for me as a dress watch on the leather, but again you're right in that when it sits on the wrist it might just feel all out of proportion. Having the comparison to an Explorer specifically and other models you've put up in your post go half way, but the trying on is what will seal the deal (or not).

The comparison with the Explorer is interesting as it makes the VC look very plausible. However they are a different style of watch, so I think the comparison with other integrated bracelet watches (Genta style if not actually Genta let's say) gives more of an idea. The difference is the way the case narrows to a narrower bracelet at the 'lug' (or where the lugs would normally be). I think this is what makes it feel a touch dainty on the wrist. It's ok and kind of turns into a sporty dress watch, but having tried the other watches you find yourself wishing for another mm or two somewhere. No two wrists are the same though I guess!

[Der Amf]

Is the bezel on the small model any thinner at all than that on the regular model?

[mjgerrard]

The comparison with the Explorer is interesting as it makes the VC look very plausible. However they are a different style of watch, so I think the comparison with other integrated bracelet watches (Genta style if not actually Genta let's say) gives more of an idea. The difference is the way the case narrows to a narrower bracelet at the 'lug' (or where the lugs would normally be). I think this is what makes it feel a touch dainty on the wrist. It's ok and kind of turns into a sporty dress watch, but having tried the other watches you find yourself wishing for another mm or two somewhere. No two wrists are the same though I guess!

What i'd be interested to know is what your average Nautilus owner thinks about that view because i've always had a sense that that was quite a dainty sports watch as well. Having said that I did just look up the 3700 model reference and it was (surprisingly - to me anyway) a 42mm watch so size wise it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison really.

[mjgerrard]

Is the bezel on the small model any thinner at all than that on the regular model?

The closest I can find to this is that the 4500V is 11.4mm in thickness overall, and the 2300V small model is 11.14mm thick. A gnat's arse in terms of difference really.

[Itsguy]

What i'd be interested to know is what your average Nautilus owner thinks about that view because i've always had a sense that that was quite a dainty sports watch as well. Having said that I did just look up the 3700 model reference and it was (surprisingly - to me anyway) a 42mm watch so size wise it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison really.

Thin (in terms of height) but pretty substantial. I have a picture somewhere of me trying one but I'm not going to post it as it's simply embarrassing! Just about possible to wear but way too big.

[Der Amf]

The closest I can find to this is that the 4500V is 11.4mm in thickness overall, and the 2300V small model is 11.14mm thick. A gnat's arse in terms of difference really.

Sorry, I should have said "less wide" rather than "thinner" - I was meaning the width of the bezel.

[mjgerrard]

Sorry, I should have said "less wide" rather than "thinner" - I was meaning the width of the bezel.

Ah I see - looking at the photos I've seen then its going to be just less wide in keeping with the proportions with the case. Mathematically the "small model" is about 10% smaller than the 4500V so I'd expect the bezel to also be 10% thinner to be in line. Hard to judge from just a picture though.

[mhurley]

I've got a blue 4500. Having owned it for about a month I think it looks best on the rubber strap. Looks a tad large with the bracelet compared to a 40 mm Rolex.

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[mjgerrard]

I've got a blue 4500. Having owned it for about a month I think it looks best on the rubber strap. Looks a tad large with the bracelet compared to a 40 mm Rolex.

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That's the problem for me too. I'll wear it on rubber predominantly, but it's a shame to pay £17.5k for all that bracelet finishing to have it sat in a box because it makes the watch a bit too portly.

[Itsguy]

That's the problem for me too. I'll wear it on rubber predominantly, but it's a shame to pay £17.5k for all that bracelet finishing to have it sat in a box because it makes the watch a bit too portly.

For me it's not the bracelet that's a bit portly, it's the whole watch. If you pay them Russian oligarch money, they will happily provide an ultra-thin 40mm version in white gold, so they do know how they should look in an ideal world! But as with the RO, if you want it done right, you're in crazy money territory.

[mjgerrard]

I agree with this, but to be fair VC are better than many other brands for keeping the best in a precious metal. They've got great watches such as the Overseas range, Quai De L'ile, FiftySix and the Historiques 1942 Calandrier range all in steel and at a (relatively) affordable price point in the context of haute de gamme watches. It's a bit like wanting Rolex to pop out the Pepsi in steel (which was only in white gold before) which did actually get turned into a steel model but if you did that with all your watch ranges you'd never sell any PM watches at the higher margins. Patek is only just waking up to the fact that they need more steel watches to choose from, with that steel weekly calendar thing they put out this year (which is still crazy money I have to say for what it is).

That aside, completely agree yes - I'd be all over that 40mm ultra thin like a tramp on chips if I had the cash. For now, the small model is as close as i'm going to get I think.

[mhurley]

Quick pic on rubber

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[mjgerrard]

Quick pic on rubber

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Very nice!

I find Vacherons sizing in general a bit perplexing.

Here's a couple of shots showing the 1942 calendar which is a 40mm manual dress watch, vs the 41mm automatic overseas.

Looking at the thickness difference and that lug overhang on the calendar.

Bizarre really.



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[W124]

That is a very pretty annual calendar.

I've been keeping an eye out for a 2nd generation VC Overseas Chrono, there are plenty on C24.

I prefer the 2nd gen, the large date complication works much better with my failing eyesight :)

[mjgerrard]

That is a very pretty annual calendar.

I've been keeping an eye out for a 2nd generation VC Overseas Chrono, there are plenty on C24.

I prefer the 2nd gen, the large date complication works much better with my failing eyesight :)

It’s actually just a full calendar if that matters to you. It’s not an annual calendar in the sense that it has no intelligence when it comes to lengths of month.

Nevertheless it is gorgeous, but the size disqualified it from the running for me.


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[mjgerrard]

So then.

Half a bottle of Bollinger in and I had tried all three watches on I wanted to see at VC Bond Street. I pretty much sat with two of the sales people for well over an hour and just nattered on about watches while they plied me with champers. Fun times!

I think I have ruled out the fiftysix but was nice to try on.

So that still leaves the decision on small or large. To put it in context I took a 35mm Longines which wears larger than it suggests.



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[Rodder]

I think it has to be the large. The smaller is just too feminine.

Did you negotiate on price, at full retail both are likely to lose money.

[Itsguy]

The small certainly looks small from far away. The large looks uncomfortably large from close up. For me this just confirms that VC need to make the Overseas In Between model, as for many of their potential customers, neither quite works.

BTW, it’s a brave man that walks into VC after half a bottle of champagne!

[mjgerrard]

The small certainly looks small from far away. The large looks uncomfortably large from close up. For me this just confirms that VC need to make the Overseas In Between model, as for many of their potential customers, neither quite works.

BTW, it’s a brave man that walks into VC after half a bottle of champagne!

They plied me with it! And I was perfectly willing to accept.



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[mjgerrard]

I think it has to be the large. The smaller is just too feminine.

Did you negotiate on price, at full retail both are likely to lose money.

I walked away with all these images and videos so I can make my mind up. As lovely as the experience was, and helpful the staff are, the grey market will knock about 5 grand off the RRP. Either way I had to go try them on - cant buy unseen at this price tag.

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[Eamonn345]

I don’t think the size of the 41mm or larger sized chrono is as big a deal (eg as much as a panerai 44mm or 47mm) that people make.


I have VC panda chrono and it has worked out ok sizewise mainly because the bracelet is super comfy and there is an adjustment section near the clasp which brings further comfort.

Comparing this to my AP15202 which is more thin and small, I find the AP sometimes a bit uncomfortable during the summer months.

Although, given the price involved for a VC, you would need to wear it a few times before committing to it.




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[Eamonn345]

I think it has to be the large. The smaller is just too feminine.

Did you negotiate on price, at full retail both are likely to lose money.

Agreed. The VC OS is by definition a sport watch and which to my mind is meant to wear larger. The dress watches are where I’m more picky re: thinness, size etc.


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[Gerald Genta]

I'd have to go for the large model as the bracelet does not flow as well on the small model. The taper is too extreme in my opinion.

[RAJEN]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
That is just awesome!

[Itsguy]

I don’t think the size of the 41mm or larger sized chrono is as big a deal (eg as much as a panerai 44mm or 47mm) that people make.

Of course it isn’t ‘a big deal’ for someone who it happens to fit, but for others it is an issue as people have different wrist sizes and builds.

I can assure you that for some of us, the 41mm models look hilariously oversized, while the ‘small model’ still looks too dainty. The problem is that VC don’t make a proper midsize, they just called the ladies model unisex, but if it still looks small on the thinnest of male wrists, that doesn’t really work.

[mjgerrard]

Of course it isn’t ‘a big deal’ for someone who it happens to fit, but for others it is an issue as people have different wrist sizes and builds.

I can assure you that for some of us, the 41mm models look hilariously oversized, while the ‘small model’ still looks too dainty. The problem is that VC don’t make a proper midsize, they just called the ladies model unisex, but if it still looks small on the thinnest of male wrists, that doesn’t really work.

This is still absolutely true.

I walked away basically of the opinions:

I wished the large model was smaller as it's a bit too big.

The small model is a touch small from certain angles but aside from the fact that we all wish they did a 39mm or so, i think the small model works better.

The two watches are blue but the dial on the larger model is quite different. It sizzles whereas the small model is quite muted in comparison. The larger model dial is stunning.

The small model is going to look better on me when I'm 65, than the giant slab that is the 41mm.

The tapering of the watch head into the rubber and leather straps works better on the smaller model. There is quite a step on the thickness of the larger model into these straps.

I've come to the conclusion that I should still stick with these two watches and not look at the competition. The opinions of the throng here are important and its started to settle into a head says larger model, heart says small, situation.



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[Kelv_w]

Photos are a bit misleading to see how it looks like on the wrist. You have to factor in most phone lenses have a wider field of view and the closer you are to the subject, the more distortion you get hence the watch head tend to appear bigger than they are. The 41mm looks fine on your wrist especially when looking at the mirror reflection whereas the small model looks dainty.

I tried one too last week at the VC + Rake event and the 41mm is gorgeous. I think I could just about pull it off on my slim wrist as the lug isn't over my wrist (again the photo says otherwise)