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Thread: Early waterproof Helvetia pocket watch

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  1. #1
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Early waterproof Helvetia pocket watch

    This arrived yesterday, interesting to me not only because it is my earliest Helvetia at around 1912, but also because it is waterproof to a design patented in 1883.

    The watch has a steel case with a solid back. It only opens from the front by unscrewing the bezel, using the milled edge. With the crown pulled out the movement then hinges out of the case. The movement has some design similarities with the Helvetia 32A which was used in the WWII GSTP watch.

    This hinged case design solves two problems, stopping the movement from rotating in the case and ensuring it is accurately located so that the bezel can screw down tightly.

    The crown and stem I think are made to this Alcide Droz design.

    Basically it is an early type of screw down crown. The operation, and a comparison to other designs of that era, is explained by the incomparable David Boettcher on his website http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/waterproof.php . If you have any interest in waterproof watches this is worth a read.

    The screw down crown is not working on my watch. I have to investigate further but I think it is broken, as there is some damage apparent looking closely at where the crown meets the tube.


    The serial number dates the watch to around 1912, thanks to Carl (enfield on the forum) who has researched Helvetia serial numbers for his brilliant site https://www.helvetiahistory.co.uk.

    The first recorded waterproof watch dates to 1851, and the first patents to the 1870s and 1880s. It’s nice to have something that was made using that early technology, which in essence is very similar to the Oyster and other waterproof wristwatches that followed.

    Incidentally, Alcide Droz went on to set up the West End Watch company. Helvetia, set up as a sister company to Omega, is probably best known for their 1928 pattern pilots watches, which share some design cues with this one (but definitely not waterproof). They soldiered on through the quartz crisis, probably into the 1980s.

    I’d welcome any further information and corrections, or indeed pictures of other waterproof pocket watches.
    Last edited by alfat33; 4th May 2019 at 07:46.

  2. #2
    Many thanks for posting this. Another fascinating Helvetia

    It always amazes me seeing the ingenuity companies (and individuals) went through to solve the practical issues of the day, and it gives a great insight into the evolution of what we are all too ready to accept as "standard" today.

    Some lovely engineering too, and nice to see the Geneva stripe adaptation on the rear of the movement.

    Is there any kind of gasket at all, or does it rely solely on the pressure between the metal of the bezel and the case for the degree of water proofing?

  3. #3
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    No bezel gasket WG, but made to a pretty fine tolerance. I’d image a tiny smear of grease would ensure it is watertight, but maybe not needed.

    The crown tube gasket would be more important but is missing.

  4. #4
    Master animalone's Avatar
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    Very interesting, thank you for sharing

  5. #5
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    A very interesting piece, especially to see practical approaches to basic problems way back then. Nice looking piece too, thanks for sharing.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  6. #6
    Master bobbee's Avatar
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    Such a rare find, you must be thrilled to have found this lovely watch mate.
    You deserve each other!

  7. #7
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Such a rare find, you must be thrilled to have found this lovely watch mate.
    You deserve each other!
    Cheers Bob, I am pretty chuffed.

    Thanks all for the nice comments.

  8. #8
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    That’s a very interesting watch; thanks for posting. I picked up another couple of GSTPs last week but I’m ashamed to say that I haven’t got either of the Helvetias yet.

    It would be interesting to know if Helvetia had any specific application in mind when they designed this one.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  9. #9
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    That’s a very interesting watch; thanks for posting. I picked up another couple of GSTPs last week but I’m ashamed to say that I haven’t got either of the Helvetias yet.

    It would be interesting to know if Helvetia had any specific application in mind when they designed this one.
    Wasn’t one of the GSTPs a JLC? I’d say that trumps a Helvetia anyday. I keep prevaricating over buying one of the German Helvetia ones with the screw case backs and shock protection.

    I hadn’t thought about what use this one was designed for. It would be interesting if anyone knows of any examples.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    The JLC GSTPs are a curiosity inasmuch as they command the highest prices and are generally of the lowest quality/condition. Your Helvetia GSTP is of much higher quality than either of my JLCs but obviously Helvetia lacks the brand “value”.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  11. #11
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    The JLC GSTPs are a curiosity inasmuch as they command the highest prices and are generally of the lowest quality/condition. Your Helvetia GSTP is of much higher quality than either of my JLCs but obviously Helvetia lacks the brand “value”.
    I never realised that, you learn something every day. Well I do anyway. After John Senior worked his magic on it it runs at +6spd hanging up so maybe there is something in the quality.

    I read just now that Borgel cased waterproof pocket watches were popular with officers in the trenches. Also the grails of waterproof pocket watches seem to be the Royal Geographic Society Travellers/Explorers watches. So maybe Helvetia just made mine for general field and rugged use. I’d be amazed if it was intended to be used underwater.

  12. #12
    Journeyman
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    Nice watch Simon.

    Interesting to see the earlier version of the 32A movement. I am looking into the Admiralty Pattern 301 wristwatches supplied by Helvetia that use the 32A. It is a later variant, the same as used in the GSTP watches. Which means, I'm pretty sure, that the Helvetia Pattern 301 wristwatches are actually 1930s, not earlier as most people think. The 2 serial numbers I've managed to find support this but I can't be 100% sure that they are actually Helvetia serial numbers, though they are in the 3 and 4 million so unlikely to be Admiralty numbers.

    I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows a bit about Helvetia pocket watches so I can tie down the start date of the later movement type, I think it's about 1930 or so.

    Thanks. Carl.


  13. #13
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enfield View Post
    Nice watch Simon.

    Interesting to see the earlier version of the 32A movement.
    Cheers Carl. I can take a few more detailed pictures of the movement at the weekend if it helps, maybe take some measurements. The balance and regulator mechanism look different for a start compared to the GSTP 32A. I can try to show them side by side - maybe you might be able to tie some features to other watches that you can date.

    I’m tempted to try a partly submerged shot as well :).

  14. #14
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Cheers Carl. I can take a few more detailed pictures of the movement at the weekend if it helps, maybe take some measurements. The balance and regulator mechanism look different for a start compared to the GSTP 32A. I can try to show them side by side - maybe you might be able to tie some features to other watches that you can date.

    I’m tempted to try a partly submerged shot as well :).
    I wouldn't!

    As you say "waterproof" here is more about rain and mud etc than swimming I think!

    If you could get some pictures that would be good. And some of a GSTP if you have one. The movement seems to have the same features in the 301 as the GSTP and these are 1930s at the earliest, the click is distinctive. The 301 pictured above dates to 1940 if the serial number is Helvetia which matches with the movement I think.

    And while we are at it here's another interesting one, retailed by Huber in Munich about 1942.


  15. #15
    Master alfat33's Avatar
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    I’m not carrying my GSTP but here is a picture of the movement. I don’t know what you will make of the movement serial number as it begins with a 1! It’s the usual white dial/cathedral hands version.



    I’ll get some better ones at the weekend.

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