Worthwhile Vintage under 10K?

[fatgreek]

Hi everyone,
I am fairly new around here as a member but have peaked at various threads on here many times over the years!

I have decided that I would like to invest some money into a vintage however, I have come to realise my budget of up to 10K doesn't seem to go very far in the vintage world when considering brands like Rolex in particular!

I want to ideally put my money into a vintage that won't depreciate but also one that I can enjoy wearing from time-to-time.

I would really appreciate it if anyone is willing to share some thoughts and recommendations on the subject.

I have come across countless Day-Dates in this price range however, I am just not a huge fan of the 'small' vintage day-dates to be quite honest.

I would much rather a sport model such as a GMT or Submariner.

Any advice on where to look for vintage watches would also be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[Dark Side of The Loon]

I’m only starting to look into them myself, so I am no expert, but it seems to me that some of the best value in the vintage watch world is to be found in 1930s-1950s chronographs. Between (very roughly) five and ten grand. Especially flyback Longines (movement’s 13ZN and 30CH). Universal Genève and Lemania also.

Some achingly pretty watches, available in gold and steel, which were at the top of their game, for 1/10th to 1/100th the price of the classic Patek chronograph. Very special movements, very elegant cases, beautiful dials. They won’t be waterproof, and will lack modern shock protection (IIRC), but they would be up to everyday use for most people I should think.

If you want a good vintage Rolex for £10k, a Submariner 5513 would be my choice. I’m sure you could still get a decent one for about that. Do your research or find a really trustworthy dealer, though.

[Jeremy67]

If you look beyond the trophy brands there are many many thousands of lovely vintage watches under 10k, in fact I'd say most of them are.

Spend some time on hear looking at what people have, you could do worse than browse back through the Friday threads (every Friday there is a thread where people show what they are wearing that day).

Enjoy the journey, be prepared to make some mistakes and accept that sometimes you may lose a little, look on it as a hire charge.

[Sinnlover]

I would have a look at Tudor submariners. Or any vintage Tudor in fact. They have shot up in value in recent years (I know mine has).
Also look lesser known brands like Scubapro for example, Whilst not a well known brand they are rare and are well regarded as quality watches.

[mhurley]

Blue tudor snowflake

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[Dark Side of The Loon]

To my mind the rise of Tudor prices has made them so close to Rolex prices, that I’d rather go with those. I do understand why many may prefer the Tudors, and I do like them, but they’re certainly not the ‘value choice’ anymore.

[ac11111]

1675/16750 matte dial are in the region. Here is my matte dial 16750.

[walkerwek1958]

It depends on the OPs priorities, I`d rather see words like passion or enthusiasm than investment when answering such questions. If I was investing it wouldn't be in watches, but there is a middle ground where a watch is a good bet to hold its value in the future. Having said that, most vintage watches have risen considerably in value over the past 10 years against a backcloth of the general decline in watch wearing on the whole. Whether this is sustainable is open to debate, other areas of antiques and collectibles have seen sharp falls as fashions change and this could easily happen with watches. Keeping them maintained is a growing problem, wouldn`t surprise me if watch repairers were as rare as mole-catchers in 10 years time!

If the OPs interest centres around sports Rolex, forget it. This horse has already bolted, prices have gone silly. An interesting area is sports chronos from the late 60s/early 70s from brands like Tissot, which are chunky enough to satisfy the modern misconception of the right size for a watch. When looking at vintage watches it pays to be able to see them in context, in the 60s and 70s a 34mm with 18mm lug width watch was fairly standard size, 60s designs tended to be slimmer with shorter lugs whilst the 50s/early 60s styles generally had longer lugs, which alters the way a watch looks on the wrist. If folks really are hung up on the size issue maybe vintage watches are best avoided, it's a bit like me moaning about how narrow my MGB is compared to modern cars, you have to accept these things for what they are.

I`ve just received a beautiful early 60s pie-pan gold-capped Constellation this morning for servicing, one of the best I`ve ever come across. These watches are still good value for money in my opinion and I question why people (like myself!) have paid double the price for a solid gold version. There's some seriously stylish high quality vintage stuff out there if you just lift your head up instead of following the rest of the herd, my advice is to buy what you find appealing and don`t get too hung up on future values. I own an extensive collection of vintage Omegas simply because I like them, it's nice to know they've appreciated but I`ll be happy if they can simply 'eat nowt' in the future and stay as they are.

[Nuisance Value]

Ed white or a 376.0822 grail would be my choice

[fatgreek]

I’m only starting to look into them myself, so I am no expert, but it seems to me that some of the best value in the vintage watch world is to be found in 1930s-1950s chronographs. Between (very roughly) five and ten grand. Especially flyback Longines (movement’s 13ZN and 30CH). Universal Genève and Lemania also.

Some achingly pretty watches, available in gold and steel, which were at the top of their game, for 1/10th to 1/100th the price of the classic Patek chronograph. Very special movements, very elegant cases, beautiful dials. They won’t be waterproof, and will lack modern shock protection (IIRC), but they would be up to everyday use for most people I should think.

If you want a good vintage Rolex for £10k, a Submariner 5513 would be my choice. I’m sure you could still get a decent one for about that. Do your research or find a really trustworthy dealer, though.

Thanks for the input. I am definately interested in a Submariner and will take a deeper look into the models that fall into my price range.

With regards to watches like the Geneve, I am not too sure how big of a fan I am but definately provided me with something to think about

[fatgreek]

Ed white or a 376.0822 grail would be my choice

I do like the Speedmasters but haven't looked into them much. I guess they would be a good option in terms of the fact that it is still a "relevant" watch in the sense that it is still in production and spoken about

- - - Updated - - -

1675/16750 matte dial are in the region. Here is my matte dial 16750.

Think I am leaning towards a GMT like this tbh. It looks stunning . Congrats

[jambobbyb]

.12345

[fatgreek]

It depends on the OPs priorities, I`d rather see words like passion or enthusiasm than investment when answering such questions. If I was investing it wouldn't be in watches, but there is a middle ground where a watch is a good bet to hold its value in the future. Having said that, most vintage watches have risen considerably in value over the past 10 years against a backcloth of the general decline in watch wearing on the whole. Whether this is sustainable is open to debate, other areas of antiques and collectibles have seen sharp falls as fashions change and this could easily happen with watches. Keeping them maintained is a growing problem, wouldn`t surprise me if watch repairers were as rare as mole-catchers in 10 years time!

If the OPs interest centres around sports Rolex, forget it. This horse has already bolted, prices have gone silly. An interesting area is sports chronos from the late 60s/early 70s from brands like Tissot, which are chunky enough to satisfy the modern misconception of the right size for a watch. When looking at vintage watches it pays to be able to see them in context, in the 60s and 70s a 34mm with 18mm lug width watch was fairly standard size, 60s designs tended to be slimmer with shorter lugs whilst the 50s/early 60s styles generally had longer lugs, which alters the way a watch looks on the wrist. If folks really are hung up on the size issue maybe vintage watches are best avoided, it's a bit like me moaning about how narrow my MGB is compared to modern cars, you have to accept these things for what they are.

I`ve just received a beautiful early 60s pie-pan gold-capped Constellation this morning for servicing, one of the best I`ve ever come across. These watches are still good value for money in my opinion and I question why people (like myself!) have paid double the price for a solid gold version. There's some seriously stylish high quality vintage stuff out there if you just lift your head up instead of following the rest of the herd, my advice is to buy what you find appealing and don`t get too hung up on future values. I own an extensive collection of vintage Omegas simply because I like them, it's nice to know they've appreciated but I`ll be happy if they can simply 'eat nowt' in the future and stay as they are.

I appreciate your point and it is important to understand why you are actually buying a watch in the first place. When I say "investment", I am not expecting to find a watch that is going to sky-rocket value or even go up at all but rather be something I can enjoy without the scary thought of sinking 10K into something that will be worth nothing in a few years. What I would like is somewhere I can put some money and enjoy it but also have the option of getting my money back if I never needed to sell it.

[higham5]

I would look at these two websites one for pre owned Rolex , the other pre owned Speedy’s , they are on here as members. Mike Wood in Southport deserves a big up.
You have a dilemma and the wisdom is buy what you like , since if everything tanks you have something you like .

http://www.theoldwatchshop.com/

https://www.vintagespeedmaster.com/speedmaster-for-sale

[fatgreek]

I would buy 2 16610s and then hold them till they are vintage cause it won’t be long...

I was looking at that very reference as they are very reasonably priced and all rolex sport models seem to be going up in value regardless. I am just weary of the fact that the whole rolex thing smells a bit like a bubble to me and is quite scary.

Having said that, I can't see 16610s dropping far below 5K in the near future if you can manage to find a good one for that sort of price

[COMEX]

1675/16750 matte dial are in the region. Here is my matte dial 16750.

Nice - but 10K won't buy the OP any above average 1675(0) these days

[Robbo12]

Ed white or a 376.0822 grail would be my choice

This if your looking for watches that hold there money. I really cant see the early Moonwatches dropping in value .

[P9CLY]

I would have a look at Tudor submariners. Or any vintage Tudor in fact. They have shot up in value in recent years (I know mine has).
Also look lesser known brands like Scubapro for example, Whilst not a well known brand they are rare and are well regarded as quality watches.

Thats good to hear,what would my Tudor 76100 lollipop hand fetch thesedays?.

[GOAT]

A Hanhart chrono as worn by a certain mr McQueen? About £4-5k for a pretty mint one and the rest on a Heuer , Autavia or bundeswehr
That’d do me

[Sinnlover]

Thats good to hear,what would my Tudor 76100 lollipop hand fetch thesedays?.

I checked watchfinder want for a 7016!!!!
It’s 10x what I paid 5 years ago :-)
Assuming they get that of course...

I walked past Watchclub this afternoon.
They had a mint Ed White and a 5513 (plus a couple of Seadwellers) in the OPs price bracket.

[Mystery Scott]

Vintage President are amazing value right now


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[murkeywaters]

I would look at these two websites one for pre owned Rolex , the other pre owned Speedy’s , they are on here as members. Mike Wood in Southport deserves a big up.
You have a dilemma and the wisdom is buy what you like , since if everything tanks you have something you like .

http://www.theoldwatchshop.com/

https://www.vintagespeedmaster.com/speedmaster-for-sale

Totally agree about Mike Wood, I bought my 14060 off him just before Xmas and I’m very pleased with the watch.
He did say it’s getting very hard for him to source quality vintage Rolex as so many people are on the hunt for them, I have been keeping an eye on his website and I don’t think a sports Rolex has come up for sale since mine!

The saying “buy the seller” is very true when dealing with old watches, Mike Wood is one of the good guys and really knows his onions when talking Rolex.

[Hood]

Nice - but 10K won't buy the OP any above average 1675(0) these days

Not true, as that watch was for sale on SC a few months ago under 10K
And it is a lovely thing.

[ac11111]

Not true, as that watch was for sale on SC a few months ago under 10K
And it is a lovely thing.

You seem to be a bit obsessed with my watch, was actually on for 10.2.

[Hood]

You seem to be a bit obsessed with my watch, was actually on for 10.2.

Yeh it was but you reduced it to below 10K after it didn't sell at 10.2K
I remember because I was genuinely interested and it was also commented upon on the BP as some were surprised these had gone up to that price.
It was you who posted the picture of your watch on this thread about vintage watches at 10K so when someone indicates that a nice 16750 is not available at that I think its fair comment to point out that the one posted earlier was indeed available at that price.

[COMEX]

Not true, as that watch was for sale on SC a few months ago under 10K
And it is a lovely thing.

A few months ago is like light years of price increases for (vintage) Rolex these days....

And yes it’s a lovely piece

[murkeywaters]

A few months ago is like light years of price increases for (vintage) Rolex these days....

And yes it’s a lovely piece

True, although not vintage, BLNR,s in the past few months have gone silly.

[COMEX]

Agreed, just have a look what the discontinuation has done to the pricing of the 116710LN

[jameswrx]

What’s an Ed white worth these days? Anyone remember the post a couple of years ago where the bloke bought one for £1500 (think it was) off WUS?


Depends how many watches you want to go for. Even Vintage Seiko chronographs and divers are stunning watches from the 60’s and 70’s and every bit as cool as the luxury brands. They’re also climbing in value hugely. It helps that Seiko are increasing their prices and charging ridiculous prices for reissues of these watches (that don’t hold a candle to the originals) it keeps giving the vintage watches a boost. It’s only going to take a couple of hoodinkwee types to realise and we’ll be buggered.

[pfjon]

Hi people,

New to the forum and one of the owners at JV Watchmakers.

When you're selling watches through the forum are they authenticated or checked over prior to transaction?

Best,
Paul

https://jvwatchmakers.com/3-easy-ste...ex-submariner/

[Hood]

Agreed, just have a look what the discontinuation has done to the pricing of the 116710LN

Can price them at whatever
Is anyone buying at that price?

[colin t]

Yeh it was but you reduced it to below 10K after it didn't sell at 10.2K
I remember because I was genuinely interested and it was also commented upon on the BP as some were surprised these had gone up to that price.
It was you who posted the picture of your watch on this thread about vintage watches at 10K so when someone indicates that a nice 16750 is not available at that I think its fair comment to point out that the one posted earlier was indeed available at that price.

Of course there was also another nice 16750 listed on SC more recently at £8350. That looked exceedingly nice for the money.

Are you ready to move that one on yet, Tomas? :-)

[RustyRoses]

If i had the money currently, I'd be buying a first gen VC Overseas Chrono. Massively undervalued.

[colin t]

Thats good to hear,what would my Tudor 76100 lollipop hand fetch thesedays?.

That depends on so many factors.

If it is blue, recent Rolex service and full set then roughly £5.5k.

[OliverCD]

I`ve just received a beautiful early 60s pie-pan gold-capped Constellation this morning for servicing, one of the best I`ve ever come across. These watches are still good value for money in my opinion and I question why people (like myself!) have paid double the price for a solid gold version.

Couldn't agree more! This is a capped version, and its a lot of looks on the wrist!

[fatgreek]

Couldn't agree more! This is a capped version, and its a lot of looks on the wrist!

Looks fantastic. How much do those go for these days?

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[fatgreek]

Can price them at whatever
Is anyone buying at that price?

Very true and there seems to be a severe lack of buyers around at the moment as I have seen countless cases of people struggling to sell beautiful watches at reasonable prices

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[Van Diemen]

I’ve seen all original 1993 GMT 16700 for £6700. No box or papers. But was an almost immaculate watch.

[fatgreek]

I’ve seen all original 1993 GMT 16700 for £6700. No box or papers. But was an almost immaculate watch.

This is probably a discussion worth it's own thread but what do you think about buying a vintage watch without papers? Is it that important for retaining value down the line?

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[ac11111]

I’ve seen all original 1993 GMT 16700 for £6700. No box or papers. But was an almost immaculate watch.

Is 16700 a vintage though? it’s the same era as 16610 subs? With glossy dial, gold surround markers and sapphire crystal. Pretty much the same as a 16710 but with the last of the non independent hour hand movement (inferior). Still £6700 for a nice example ableit without B&P is great value

I guess give it 10 15 years and it will be considered vintage along with the other non ceramics.

[ac11111]

This is probably a discussion worth it's own thread but what do you think about buying a vintage watch without papers? Is it that important for retaining value down the line?

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Box and papers add value for vintage and the older the watch gets the more value it adds from what I have seen for the desirable models. Without box and papers you need to research (widely available on the internet) and verify. It can be a minefield but if you are passionate about watches that’s half the fun.

Factors from most important first that drives value is

Overall look and aesthetic
Dial and hands originality and condition
Case condition
Papers (meaning the original guarantee paper)
Servicing
Box and other stuff it came with (you can buy these from eBay so does not indicate it came with the watch)

If a watch can hit all those for a desirable model, the price can be double or triple those that only hit maybe a few conditions.

[P9CLY]

That depends on so many factors.

If it is blue, recent Rolex service and full set then roughly £5.5k.

Its black boxed in immaculate condition.With regards to the blue.Maybe 3 years ago I bought a blue and black dial from the same friend,I paid £1700 each!.

[murkeywaters]

Is 16700 a vintage though? it’s the same era as 16610 subs? With glossy dial, gold surround markers and sapphire crystal. Pretty much the same as a 16710 but with the last of the non independent hour hand movement (inferior). Still £6700 for a nice example ableit without B&P is great value

I guess give it 10 15 years and it will be considered vintage along with the other non ceramics.

As the 6 digit watches have been out a while now, the early 5 digits are being classed as vintage with lots of dealers using the vintage label on anything in the 5 digit sport range.

Personally if it has luminova as original lume then I don’t think the word vintage should be used....... yet!

[walkerwek1958]

Box and papers add value for vintage and the older the watch gets the more value it adds from what I have seen for the desirable models. Without box and papers you need to research (widely available on the internet) and verify. It can be a minefield but if you are passionate about watches that’s half the fun.

Factors from most important first that drives value is

Overall look and aesthetic
Dial and hands originality and condition
Case condition
Papers (meaning the original guarantee paper)
Servicing
Box and other stuff it came with (you can buy these from eBay so does not indicate it came with the watch)

If a watch can hit all those for a desirable model, the price can be double or triple those that only hit maybe a few conditions.

Ever heard the phrase ‘teaching granny how to suck eggs’?

I could disagree with some of your comments but can’t be bothered. You obviously believe all you read on the interweb!

[fatgreek]

Box and papers add value for vintage and the older the watch gets the more value it adds from what I have seen for the desirable models. Without box and papers you need to research (widely available on the internet) and verify. It can be a minefield but if you are passionate about watches that’s half the fun.

Factors from most important first that drives value is

Overall look and aesthetic
Dial and hands originality and condition
Case condition
Papers (meaning the original guarantee paper)
Servicing
Box and other stuff it came with (you can buy these from eBay so does not indicate it came with the watch)

If a watch can hit all those for a desirable model, the price can be double or triple those that only hit maybe a few conditions.

Thanks for the information. Very useful

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[Hood]

Is 16700 a vintage though? it’s the same era as 16610 subs? With glossy dial, gold surround markers and sapphire crystal. Pretty much the same as a 16710 but with the last of the non independent hour hand movement (inferior). Still £6700 for a nice example ableit without B&P is great value

I guess give it 10 15 years and it will be considered vintage along with the other non ceramics.

I would take the quickset date feature of the 16700 ahead of the indy hour hand of the 16710 to be honest.
Agree that I wouldn't class these as true vintage but some consider them so.

[Andyg]

I would take the quickset date feature of the 16700 ahead of the indy hour hand of the 16710 to be honest.
Agree that I wouldn't class these as true vintage but some consider them so.

So would i (I did), also the 16700 is a rarer watch in comparison to the 16710.

[Mark lowman]

If I had 10k I’d probably spit it into 2 or even 3 watches.
Zenith El Primeros still offer very good value for money in my book
Heuer Bunds are not madly priced
Breitling Chronomats can be anything from 2k to 4k depending on who’s selling them
SM300’s are a delight and can still be had under 5k and Big Blues under 6k
Flightmasters always seem good value .
MK2’s still haven’t maxed you could buy every example from M2-MK4.5 and still have change
Speedmaster -74’s will go up like their -71 and -69 brethren but having had one I’d always buy a Stepped Dial where possible . For 10k you could still buy a 321 Speedie with original bracelet and probably squeeze in an interesting Longine Admiral or UG Polerouter. So many options without even touching Rolex

[colin t]

Another vote for the 16750 if you can find a decent one from a private seller (for price reasons). I’m delighted with mine; it doesn’t come with box or original warranty papers but I bought it for the watch itself - it’s nicely aged and supremely original.

You might need to wait for a nice one, but the learning and the searching is certainly fun.

[boring_sandwich]

I would consider something like this:

http://www.mjwatches.co.uk/vintage-w...r-serial-1988/

or this:

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/rolex/sub...id10817872.htm