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Thread: A little advice required - Jaeger LeCoultre WWW “Dirty Dozen”

  1. #1
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    A little advice required - Jaeger LeCoultre WWW “Dirty Dozen”

    Good morning all I’m after a little advice if you please. Last year (on my birthday as it happens) I purchased this Jaeger LeCoultre WWW from a local charity shop on a bit of a whim knowing roughly that it seemed to be a “dirty dozen” watch.

    Since then it’s pretty much sat in a drawer only being worn on a couple of occasions, but I have done a little more research into the Dirty Dozen.
    From what I have managed to dig up so far, it seems that on this watch the case back may be incorrect as it should have the military numbers stamped into it. There is a number stamped into the case back, and this is quite a deep stamp, so my initial thoughts are that the case back is more likely to be a replacement rather than having had the numbers polished out.

    Also, looking at pictures on the good old internet it looks like the crown is also incorrect and may be a “generic” replacement. Most of the ones I can see in the pictures I’ve looked at seem to be a little thinner and more domed on the top.
    Today I decided to ask a local jeweller to take the back off so that I could have a look inside at the movement - pictures below.


    The movement is signed as “Jaeger LeCoultre” and is ticking away beautifully. It also has a serial number on the movement - although this doesn’t match the serial number on the case back. Also, there are numerous servicing and repair marks scratched into the case back, but these were very difficult to photograph with my crappy phone.
    So I have a couple of questions which I am hoping the forum WISdom may be able to help with please;
    I would be interested to hear any thoughts on the case back and crown being incorrect - and also what the possibility may be of obtaining a correct crown and case back.
    Next, does the movement look correct for this watch?? I have had a look at some images on the web and it does look OK to me, but I have a VERY untrained eye.
    Thirdly is there any on line resource available where I may be able to look up either of the numbers stamped into the watch, or would I be able to email Jaeger LeCoultre directly and ask for some information?
    Lastly, does anyone have any idea on the value of this watch?? I paid a pretty fair whack for it (a very, very long way over the £15 price tag) in the knowledge that if it turned out to be a dud, a local charity would have done well out of it - and it was my birthday after all!!
    I would appreciate any thoughts you may have, and also if you could point me in the direction of any resources where I could look up the numbers stamped into the watch.
    Many thanks.
    Paul.



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  2. #2
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    It looks like an Australian issue JLC WWW to me, they had sterile backs and shiny rather than matt chrome. I agree that I think the crown is wrong but they can be bought. Really nice and rare watch. Congratulations that is a fabulous birthday present.

    Edit: Are the strap bars fixed? I think they should be spring bars for the Aussie but I am stretching my memory....Regards value I would have thought £1,800 - £2000 but I am not well up on prices.
    Last edited by size11s; 30th April 2019 at 10:50.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    It looks like an Australian issue JLC WWW to me, they had sterile backs and shiny rather than matt chrome. I agree that I think the crown is wrong but they can be bought. Really nice and rare watch. Congratulations that is a fabulous birthday present.

    Edit: Are the strap bars fixed? I think they should be spring bars for the Aussie but I am stretching my memory....Regards value I would have thought £1,800 - £2000 but I am not well up on prices.
    Thank you very much for your response. Plot thickens - the bars are definitely fixed. I would love to know the journey that this watch has been on. I find it really quite amazing to think that this functional little watch is on my wrist doing exactly the same job it did all those years ago when it was issued.



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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    It looks like an Australian issue JLC WWW to me, they had sterile backs and shiny rather than matt chrome. I agree that I think the crown is wrong but they can be bought. Really nice and rare watch. Congratulations that is a fabulous birthday present.

    Edit: Are the strap bars fixed? I think they should be spring bars for the Aussie but I am stretching my memory....Regards value I would have thought £1,800 - £2000 but I am not well up on prices.
    And - any idea where I can get a crown from??


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  5. #5
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    If you email John Senior through his website http://www.obsoletewatchandclockparts.com I am pretty sure that he will have a crown. If not he will probably know someone who might have one.

    Would you say that the chrome on the mid case is shiny or matt?

    If you go on the MWR (military watch resource) forum there are genuine experts there who know much more than me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    If you email John Senior through his website http://www.obsoletewatchandclockparts.com I am pretty sure that he will have a crown. If not he will probably know someone who might have one.

    Would you say that the chrome on the mid case is shiny or matt?

    If you go on the MWR (military watch resource) forum there are genuine experts there who know much more than me.
    I would definitely say shiny, although quite worn.
    And thanks for the link. I’ll drop John a line.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piemuncher22 View Post
    And - any idea where I can get a crown from??


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    Thats a nice little find, I would say Aussie issued. I thought they had fixed bars as well as the UK watches. The ones without fixed bars usually have the incorrect mid case. So yours looks good to me.
    Are you a member over at MWR?
    Maybe ask over there, there are a number of members with a stash of parts. They are more than happy to help get watches back in to original condition most of the time.
    Re value I would say a bit more than £2000, it’s the nicest WWW IMO.
    The WWW prices have shot sky high in recent years. I have seen JLC going for £4000 retail in London. Grana and IWC are POA! If you have to ask you cannot afford it.

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    It's a very interesting watch. The lugs do look right and original (as a UK WWW JLC) but as far as I know it is considered normal for the Aussie WWW's to have drilled lugs for spring bars so maybe the drilled ones are all modified and yours is original, although there aren't many known so it's difficult to be definitive. I would say everything else including case back is fine. There was one sold on Omegaforums with a case back number close to yours. Maybe send John a pic, he is very knowledgable on WWW's.
    Regards
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    Thats a nice little find, I would say Aussie issued. I thought they had fixed bars as well as the UK watches. The ones without fixed bars usually have the incorrect mid case. So yours looks good to me.
    Are you a member over at MWR?
    Maybe ask over there, there are a number of members with a stash of parts. They are more than happy to help get watches back in to original condition most of the time.
    Re value I would say a bit more than £2000, it’s the nicest WWW IMO.
    The WWW prices have shot sky high in recent years. I have seen JLC going for £4000 retail in London. Grana and IWC are POA! If you have to ask you cannot afford it.
    Thank you very much. I am not a member over there - in terms of military watches, I only have this one and a CWC G10. I’ll head over there and introduce myself.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    It's a very interesting watch. The lugs do look right and original (as a UK WWW JLC) but as far as I know it is considered normal for the Aussie WWW's to have drilled lugs for spring bars so maybe the drilled ones are all modified and yours is original, although there aren't many known so it's difficult to be definitive. I would say everything else including case back is fine. There was one sold on Omegaforums with a case back number close to yours. Maybe send John a pic, he is very knowledgable on WWW's.
    Regards
    Mark
    Thank you Mark. Watch this space. I’ll continue to dig on the MWR and update this thread when I find some more info.


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  11. #11
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    Here is an Aussie JLC WWW that sold on MWR forum.

    https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...hlight=jlc+www

    Be good to see you over at MWR, it's a friendly and very knowledgable place.

  12. #12
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    Thanks very much. Just registering now.......
    And trying to figure how to find it on Tapatalk!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Piemuncher22 View Post
    Thanks very much. Just registering now.......
    And trying to figure how to find it on Tapatalk!


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    I don’t think MWR is on Tapatalk, although let me know if you find out that it is!

    Lovely watch, a nice find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I don’t think MWR is on Tapatalk, although let me know if you find out that it is!

    Lovely watch, a nice find.
    Doesn’t look like it!! I’d bet fire up the laptop!!


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    imgur or postimage for posting images on MWR I think.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piemuncher22 View Post
    Doesn’t look like it!! I’d bet fire up the laptop!!


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    It’s mobile adaptive so a phone works OK.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    It’s mobile adaptive so a phone works OK.
    And you can post pictures direct from your phone/laptop too!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    It’s mobile adaptive so a phone works OK.
    And you can post pictures direct from your phone/laptop too!

  18. #18
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    Quick thread update.
    The watch is currently winging its way back to me having had the correct crown, new stem and correct crystal fitted by a really nice chap by the name of John Senior.
    Very much looking forward to getting it back in the wrist.
    Still haven’t managed to join the MWR - I have registered, but so far had no activation email.
    If anyone does have any idea about who may be able to help me contact a mod over there to sort it out, please do drop me a line.


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  19. #19
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    I’d just be patient with MWR for a bit.

    You are very lucky to have John Senior work on your watch, I’m sure it will be as good as it is possible to be.

  20. #20
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    Just a quick thread update - I have just had the watch back from John Senior and it looks fantastic - it really is amazing how different it looks with the correct crystal and crown fitted.

    For some reason I have not yet heard back from the MWR, but I have been doing a little more digging on the inter web.

    From what I can ascertain this far everything here is pointing to the watch being Australian issue. There are 4 main pointers;

    I managed to find a post on MWR giving out the case back and movement number ranges for those issued in Australia and the numbers on mine fall well within those ranges.

    The “polished” case rather than the matt case - again, Australian issue.

    The lugs on the British issued watch cases are different to the Aussie ones - to my untrained eye and only looking at some photos on the web, the lugs on mine look more like the pictures of the Australian ones (would welcome a 2nd opinion on this).

    The lack of MOD WWW markings and numbers on the case back is consistent with those issued in Australia.

    So, there is only one point which I need to resolve, being the fixed bars. According to everything I’ve read thus far, there should be regular spring bars on the Australian issued watches..... and the bars in mine are definitely fixed!

    So the plot thickens, but thus far I haven’t seen a single reference to an Aussie issue watch with fixed bars. Hopefully I’ll hear from the chaps over at MWR and maybe with a bit more digging I can resolve the final point.

    Thanks as always to everyone who has helped me piece this together thus far.


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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Piemuncher22 View Post
    Just a quick thread update - I have just had the watch back from John Senior and it looks fantastic - it really is amazing how different it looks with the correct crystal and crown fitted.

    For some reason I have not yet heard back from the MWR, but I have been doing a little more digging on the inter web.

    From what I can ascertain this far everything here is pointing to the watch being Australian issue. There are 4 main pointers;

    I managed to find a post on MWR giving out the case back and movement number ranges for those issued in Australia and the numbers on mine fall well within those ranges.

    The “polished” case rather than the matt case - again, Australian issue.

    The lugs on the British issued watch cases are different to the Aussie ones - to my untrained eye and only looking at some photos on the web, the lugs on mine look more like the pictures of the Australian ones (would welcome a 2nd opinion on this).

    The lack of MOD WWW markings and numbers on the case back is consistent with those issued in Australia.

    So, there is only one point which I need to resolve, being the fixed bars. According to everything I’ve read thus far, there should be regular spring bars on the Australian issued watches..... and the bars in mine are definitely fixed!

    So the plot thickens, but thus far I haven’t seen a single reference to an Aussie issue watch with fixed bars. Hopefully I’ll hear from the chaps over at MWR and maybe with a bit more digging I can resolve the final point.

    Thanks as always to everyone who has helped me piece this together thus far.


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    Have you checked your spam? That's where my emails from them always end up so worth checking.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewismark View Post
    Have you checked your spam? That's where my emails from them always end up so worth checking.
    Of course I haven’t!! I’ll check now.


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    To be honest if your watch has been to John Senior and he hasn't informed you of any discrepancies it is all correct. I thought/read that Aussie's had spring bars but that was just someone else saying that on the internet, I didn't find any corroborating military specifications. I did also read in a thread that they are fixed bars so as of yet I am not sure anyone knows. I would certainly say that JS will be as informed as anyone though.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    To be honest if your watch has been to John Senior and he hasn't informed you of any discrepancies it is all correct. I thought/read that Aussie's had spring bars but that was just someone else saying that on the internet, I didn't find any corroborating military specifications. I did also read in a thread that they are fixed bars so as of yet I am not sure anyone knows. I would certainly say that JS will be as informed as anyone though.
    Thanks. That is good to know. And also, the fixed bars vs spring bars is something that I had read on the internet (MWR) as well. There are a couple of references to it.


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    Any chance of a pic of your Aussie with it's new crown and crystal Paul? Would be nice to see a fresh Aussie crown. Cheers.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    Any chance of a pic of your Aussie with it's new crown and crystal Paul? Would be nice to see a fresh Aussie crown. Cheers.
    Of course, here is a couple of pictures. You can also see the new crystal which sets it off beautifully.



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    Thank you. Looks fantastic and that crown is a little different than the UK one. The dial looks in fabulous condition, that really must be the charity shop 'find of the year', nay decade!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    I’d just be patient with MWR for a bit.

    You are very lucky to have John Senior work on your watch, I’m sure it will be as good as it is possible to be.
    Yes, particularly since he "retired" a year or two ago. You can't keep a good man down

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    Yes, particularly since he "retired" a year or two ago. You can't keep a good man down
    Exactly. I think he just takes on the work that appeals now. The spares website is still going strong.

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