closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 66

Thread: What is it about manual wind vs automatic that people love so much?

  1. #1
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    97

    What is it about manual wind vs automatic that people love so much?

    I often hear people speak of manual wind as a 'feature', like it is superior to an automatic, particularly at the high end. I'm thinking references such as the Patek 5196 and 5170, but also the Speedy. Is it just the 'cleanness' of the thing? Or are they generally more accurate? Otherwise, I can't see how a watch you need to do more with in order to tell the time (and carry the risk of it stopping at a crucial moment if you forget!) could be considered superior? This applies to chronographs, as well as simple three-handers.
    In short : am i missing something..?

  2. #2
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,912
    You have to do something to autos to keep them running. Manual wind makes you more conscious of this effort. If you like not being conscious of the things you do in life, autos are you.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by john_coburg View Post
    I often hear people speak of manual wind as a 'feature', like it is superior to an automatic, particularly at the high end. I'm thinking references such as the Patek 5196 and 5170, but also the Speedy. Is it just the 'cleanness' of the thing? Or are they generally more accurate? Otherwise, I can't see how a watch you need to do more with in order to tell the time (and carry the risk of it stopping at a crucial moment if you forget!) could be considered superior? This applies to chronographs, as well as simple three-handers.
    In short : am i missing something..?
    If the watch have glassback and a decorated movement why hide it with a clumsy rotor?
    Furthermore, we love to play with our watches so why not wind it every morning?

  4. #4
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    5,622
    Retro appeal; more interaction with a watch always welcome to a wis; sense of tradition/continuity.



    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  5. #5



    I doubt if thoughts/feelings have changed much.

  6. #6
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    30,573
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post



    I doubt if thoughts/feelings have changed much.
    Was about to post something similar
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  7. #7
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Not Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,487
    I would rather dismissively talk about misty-eyed rose-hinted nostalgic nonsense being behind this love of manual over automatic... but then if that was the truth we'd all be wearing the latest Apple watch.

    Some people like the daily interaction with the watch. Personally I prefer auto, I've had a few manual and could never get into the routine of winding them.

  8. #8
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    711
    My manuals have now far outstripped my autos and quartz. And I don't know why, other than I love winding them up.

    They tend to be thinner (generally) which I like.

    I suppose in the day, manual wind for the majority of watch wearers became a chore, hence the development of autos. That's what the public wanted. I seem to remember feeling this myself as a young lad, wishing I could afford an auto. I believe they were more expensive than manual equivalent models.

    I suspect, for the higher end watch manufacturers, hand wind are more niche, and thus command a premium from those who prefer the HW, but apart from my Speedmaster Professional, all my hand winds are vintage Swiss and British makes.

    And I tend to wear the vintage ones far more than the significantly expensive auto and quartz watches.

  9. #9
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Near the sea
    Posts
    7,122
    Well I guess automatic was supposed to kill off manual wind, quartz was supposed to kill off automatic and smart watches were supposed to be master of them all - but here I sit getting a buzz out of winding up my 74 Speedmaster.

  10. #10
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Coulsdon
    Posts
    1,263
    They can be thinner.

    As others have said, if the watch has a display back you can see more of the movement.

    If you sedentary - you may end up having to manually wind an Auto in any event

  11. #11
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    5,622
    V good point re thinner. Forgot that! Partly why speedy is my favourite Chrono!

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Thomas Reid
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    20,326
    I almost always have to wind automatics anyway, as I switch between watches fairly frequently. I would only get a power winder if I had some really snazzy perpetual date, with the position of the stars displayed or somesuch. So, in general, I think of automatic winding as a complication that doesn't do any real work, increases size and weight, and decreases aesthetic value.

    Best wishes,
    Bob

    PS Ditto for day and date. For similar reasons.
    RLF
    Last edited by rfrazier; 21st April 2019 at 13:47.

  13. #13
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    6
    As I understand it, Rolex wanted automatic winding to stop owners from forgetting to screw the crown down after winding each day.

    Manual wind is satisfying, before I bought a water resistant auto, I wore a 1928 Longines for ten years. No problem with the winding, but I forgot I had swapped from my Casio on the last of a holiday......dived into the pool, noticed my watch was gold, not black,and saw water half way up the face :(

  14. #14
    Winders are thinner
    Autos have screwdowns

    Then there's panerai.

    ...
    BUBI 0_0

  15. #15
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    690
    Looked everywhere to get a starting crank handle for my car. Apparently they are all key start these days. Oh well, that’s progress I suppose.........

  16. #16
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    You have to do something to autos to keep them running. Manual wind makes you more conscious of this effort. If you like not being conscious of the things you do in life, autos are you.
    That last sentence is a load of rubbish.

    I have both in my modest collection and enjoy both.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,912
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Chilli View Post
    That last sentence is a load of rubbish.

    I have both in my modest collection and enjoy both.
    Your understanding of my grammar is the rubbish here. Would you like to calm down and have another go?

  18. #18
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Mendips
    Posts
    3,159
    Does it have any bearing on the ability to withstand greater acceleration or impacts? (I.e the rotor putting more strain on various parts)

  19. #19
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Wirral - North West England
    Posts
    15,264
    I just prefer automatics. I've had a couple of Speedmasters and I either forgot to wind them or was worried about over winding and occasionally they stopped. First world problems and totally my fault, but each to their own. I now only own automatics.

  20. #20
    Master
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Your understanding of my grammar is the rubbish here. Would you like to calm down and have another go?
    Woah, calm down. I've just read what was written and disagree. No biggie.

  21. #21
    For me it is about the overall package or my feelings about the watch, the winding mechanism is secondary. I have both.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  22. #22
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    13,888
    Blog Entries
    1
    Every watch is a compromise. Manual wind is simpler, easier to fix, has less to wear and, with few exceptions, is prettier. I agree that having to interact is a subtle intimacy that rapidly becomes a thing in itself.

    Oddly, an old friend gave me a framed ‘poem on the underground’ poem called ‘prayer’ by Carol Anne Duffy. For a while reading it on the wall in my office reminded me to wind whatever I was wearing. Now when I wind a watch it reminds me of the poem.

    http://poem-of-the-week.blogspot.com...ann-duffy.html

    Which makes me smile.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Every watch is a compromise. Manual wind is simpler, easier to fix, has less to wear and, with few exceptions, is prettier. I agree that having to interact is a subtle intimacy that rapidly becomes a thing in itself.

    Oddly, an old friend gave me a framed ‘poem on the underground’ poem called ‘prayer’ by Carol Anne Duffy. For a while reading it on the wall in my office reminded me to wind whatever I was wearing. Now when I wind a watch it reminds me of the poem.

    http://poem-of-the-week.blogspot.com...ann-duffy.html

    Which makes me smile.
    “A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful implanted in the human soul.” --Johann Wolfgang Goethe

    Very profound even if not part of the poem. Add to it -and wind his watch.

  24. #24
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    13,888
    Blog Entries
    1
    K
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    “A man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life, in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful implanted in the human soul.” --Johann Wolfgang Goethe

    Very profound even if not part of the poem. Add to it -and wind his watch.
    By way of an Easter gift, treat yourself to the book Angelmaker. I suspect you will enjoy it.

  25. #25
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    Those of us old enough will remember a time when most watches were hand- wound, automatics were significantly more expensive, and quartz watches hadn’t been invented. Winding your watch in a morning was almost a sub- conscious act, you did it without thinking. Generally, automatics are better timekeepers, there are well- documented technical reasons for this so there’s no point re-iterating them, but back in the days before the quartz revolution the majority of watches were hand- wound. By the late 60s/ early 70s automatics were far more common, and I think the price differentials probably shrunk, but I’m not old enough to remember such details.

    In the context of modern ownership, hand- wounds will generally be owned as family heirlooms or as part of an enthusiast’s collection. Having to wind the watch daily has now become something of a novelty; I own two at the moment and I have to make a conscious effort to remember to wind them when they’re getting some wrist time.

    When buying vintage watches there are benefits in buying hand- wound examples. They sell for slightly less than similar automatics, and there’s less risk of the watch needing expensive / rare parts to keep it running. The timekeeping argument doesn’t count for much if a watch is worn in rotation as part of a collection, I find that my hand- wound watches can be very accurate if they’re adjusted/ regulated carefully and wound twice/ day.

    I find it strange that folks prefer them because they feel they’re interacting with the watch more, to me they are what they are and I don’t consider them any more or less desirable than a similar automatic. I also find it odd that folks can’t get along with a hand- wound simply because they have to remember to keep winding it!

  26. #26
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    1,278
    I've worn a vintage seamaster as a daily wearer for periods and oddly did find something relaxing about the ritual of winding, and checking/adjusting the time each morning. It sort of 'makes' you think about the watch and appreciate it....you give it some love.

  27. #27
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    76

    What is it about manual wind vs automatic that people love so much?

    For a special occasion watch I think manual wound is great to add to the sense of occasion in using the watch. For day to day I enjoy an automatic with a good power reserve so if I don’t use it for a day or two for whatever reason, it’s still good to go the next day. For my outdoors beater watch which I use mountain biking and kayaking then a quartz is ideal as it is set and ready to go whenever I grab it a few times a week.

  28. #28
    Master endo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,259
    Manual wind works for me,
    Once your collection reaches a certain point with a fair bit of daily rotation you come to realise all mechnical watches are manual wind (regardless of being auto or not)

    Advantage that most of my manuals have, is an 8-10 power reserve so a quick top up and their on the wrist and my day can start.
    Usually there’s a bit of time/date setting along with a quick wind on autos to get them going (or a top up wind if they’ve been sat a couple of days.)

    If I was to only have one watch, i’d prefer an auto as it would be one less thing to in the morning.

  29. #29
    Grand Master dkpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    10,802
    I like the fact that with manuals, that you can wind them and leave them sitting, e.g not wearing them and they'll still keep as good time as they can. This is especially useful on holiday, at weekends or when you're not wearing a watch consistently. Shock, horror!

  30. #30
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    354
    I've got a couple of manuals and some autos too. Depends on the watch but on some, it seems more "pure" to have manual wind.

    I like manuals for all the reasons already mentioned too, plus a fair amount of nostalgia.

    I was a kid when quartz and digital watches were introduced and had a steady stream of digital watches as a teenager once they had become cheap consumer items. I wind my manual watches at bedtime (most peoople seem to wind in a morning) as a result of my first watch as a young kid being a manual wind Timex and observing my grandad winding his watch before bedtime too. A ritual for him which lasted well beyond my teenage years. In not sure, but I think that watch was an omega of some sort. Thus, whenever I wind my watch at bedtime, it makes me think of him and is s connection to my childhood memories of him. I especially enjoy winding my speedy due to the omega connection, despite it being quite an awkward watch to wind!

    A reverso is my other manual wind and that is so easy and smooth to wind and makes a lovely sound. Another watch that just seems right as a manual wind.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Well I guess automatic was supposed to kill off manual wind, quartz was supposed to kill off automatic and smart watches were supposed to be master of them all - but here I sit getting a buzz out of winding up my 74 Speedmaster.
    Same here, except for the 74 seamaster part.

    Can't understand the smartwatch thing, having to charge them every couple days, at least a quartz last for months or years.

    I can get it for those specific activity trackers, etc.. but not as a regular watch.

  32. #32
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    I don’t think the automatic movement was ever supposed to kill off hand- wounds. Back in the 60s and 70s manufacturers produced automatic and hand- wound movements that were extremely similar in design, with many interchangeable parts, essentially you could buy the same quality with or without auto- winding and the two existed side by side at different price points. The need for a deeper case to accomodate the rotor was usually addressed by using a slightly dished caseback.

    By the mid- 80s, when mechanical watches were in the minority versus quartz, hand- wounds almost died out completely. I have a Rolex catalogue from 1986 that contains some hand- wounds but I don’t think they were available much later than that.

    You have to be old enough to remember the days before quartz watches/ clocks to see hand- wound timepieces in context; I remember my mum winding the clock every morning, my dad winding his watch, it was a daily task that everyone had to do and its little wonder that quartz models were seen as a big leap forward. Different days, you had to be there to grasp the significance.

  33. #33
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,742
    Of note that hand-wounds should be wound fully in the morning and not in the evening.

  34. #34
    I don’t favour a manual over auto. I like both. Having worn a manual as a daily watch for near on a decade, winding quickly became a routine. I never forgot to do it. Forgetting would be like putting shoes on and forgetting to tie the laces.

    If you wear in rotation a mix of auto/manual I guess forgetting to wind could happen occasionally.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Of note that hand-wounds should be wound fully in the morning and not in the evening.
    Is it to form a habit or there is a mechanical reason to do it?

  36. #36
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    I think there’s a logical argument for winding a watch both morning and evening. Power reserve is usually around 48 hrs, timekeeping will be more consistent when the watch is in higher state of wind, so by winding in the morning the watch will run between 100% and 67% of full wind, which should give a consistent rate. Winding at night gives 8 hrs overnight running at better than 80% full wind, as opposed to 50-67% which may cause the rate to differ. Consistency is key if optimum precision is the goal, storing the watch in thesame position and same state of wind will help achieve this. However, the biggest advantage in winding twice/day is the safeguard it provides if you forget to wind it once.

    As with any watch, performance will be more consistent if the watch is running well with healthy amplitude,if the watch hasn’t been serviced for many years it’s more likely to be sensitive to the state of wind because the amplitude will drop to an undesirable level.

  37. #37
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,742
    If you "always" wind the watch "twice" every day... then the inner coils of the mainspring will never get used (unwind) and so become liable to bind.

  38. #38
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,742
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Is it to form a habit or there is a mechanical reason to do it?
    A fully wound spring is at the peak of its performance and gives the best amplitude to the balance... from then on it's all downhill. So it is better to be starting the day with a fully wound spring.

  39. #39
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Mendips
    Posts
    3,159
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    If you "always" wind the watch "twice" every day... then the inner coils of the mainspring will never get used (unwind) and so become liable to bind.
    Wouldn't that therefore be a significant issue for most autos?

  40. #40
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,742
    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    Wouldn't that therefore be a significant issue for most autos?
    Probably, depending on how they are used. I wouldn't call it significant though. Just possible.

    I've never of anyone winding a watch twice a day... that's all.

  41. #41
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    Wouldn't that therefore be a significant issue for most autos?
    Yes, that’s true. I don’t see it as an issue, the coils won’t stick because the mainspring is lubricated. Modern mainsprings are very resilient and usually last for many years. It’s good practice to swap them when a watch is serviced to minimise the risk of breakage during the next few years of the watch’s life, considering the modest cost of the spring this makes sense, but often springs get replaced when they’ve plenty of life in them.

  42. #42
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post

    I've never of anyone winding a watch twice a day... that's all.
    I’ve always done this, even as a kid!

  43. #43
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Chester
    Posts
    126
    Manual wind is not just important but imperative when in orbit, not a huge consideration for most of us but it’s must have been important to Scott Carpenter when he had the Cosmonaute made.

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglybug View Post
    Manual wind is not just important but imperative when in orbit, not a huge consideration for most of us but it’s must have been important to Scott Carpenter when he had the Cosmonaute made.
    Eh? Automatics work fine in space. Or is it just because of the reduced movement meaning the mainspring doesn't get enough charge?

  45. #45

  46. #46
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Chester
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    Eh? Automatics work fine in space. Or is it just because of the reduced movement meaning the mainspring doesn't get enough charge?
    Yeah in low gravity the rotor doesn’t turn as efficiently so I think there all still manual wind? Cosmonaute, Omega Moonwatch and Sturmanskie Gagarin are all still produced in manual wind as a nod to this I believe.

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Breitli...7A/p/17531127/

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Omega-S...91&fo_s=slisys

    https://www.r2awatches.com/sturmansk...-2609-3725127/
    Last edited by Uglybug; 23rd April 2019 at 04:15.

  47. #47
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    13,888
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Of note that hand-wounds should be wound fully in the morning and not in the evening.
    Why is that? I just top up all the time.

  48. #48
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    13,888
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglybug View Post
    Yeah in low gravity the rotor doesn’t turn as efficiently so I think there all still manual wind? Cosmonaute, Omega Moonwatch and Sturmanskie Gagarin are all still produced in manual wind as a nod to this I believe.

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Breitli...7A/p/17531127/

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Omega-S...91&fo_s=slisys

    https://www.r2awatches.com/sturmansk...-2609-3725127/
    The mass remains the same, thus the inertia remains the same thus the winding action remains the same. Gravity doesn’t add any additional power to the system - it adds in one set of directions and subtracts In the other.

    The watches you mention all only came in manual wind versions at the time they flew. In fact there were no Russian or chronograph automatics at the time of each flight.

  49. #49
    I simply enjoy mechanical watches in general, so I don't have a preference for manual wind or automatic. However, I think part of the charm is being able to see the inner workings of the movement, so manual watches would be more revealing naturally. The finishing and craftsmanship of the movement are what draws me in.

  50. #50
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    33,742
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Why is that? I just top up all the time.
    As I said above...

    "A fully wound spring is at the peak of its performance and gives the best amplitude to the balance... from then on it's all downhill. So it is better to be starting the day with a fully wound spring."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information