closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Girard-Perregaux rare dial (352 quartz)

  1. #1
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640

    Girard-Perregaux rare dial (352 quartz)

    Hi all

    Copied from my WuS post.

    Iím stunned, Iíve been looking for one of these for about 12 years.
    Finally I saw one on eBay for what I think was a silly low price. It has had some parts harvested but otherwise in great condition, especially the dial which hasnít worn at all. And we all know vintage is all in the dial.

    Thereís a thread on there regarding these
    Here. :
    Girard Perregaux Ref. 9444-2. 1972 quartz watch Cal. 352
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...0&share_type=t

    One with the scratched acrylic



    One without to show how good the dial is.





    Mines a Completely original with the jubilee Style GP, champion bracelet which by the way hits like a dream. Acrylic is a bit scratched so will need a clean or replacement. Looking forward to getting this up and running.


    Ps of anyone has spares for the Cal.352 or a donor that they donít mind getting rid please PM me.
    Hope you enjoyed this genesis of modern quartz.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  2. #2
    That is a crazy looking dial. Forgive my ignorance, but is it a "picture" of the actual inner workings of the watch?

  3. #3
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    1,633
    Congrats OP, I've seen these before. The dial sure is funky and unusual.

    Crazywatchespl did a nice piece on the 352 movement
    http://www.crazywatches.pl/girard-pe...52-quartz-1972

    I would imagine it will be a challenge finding parts so best of luck with it. Hope to see it up and running in a Friday thread in the future.

  4. #4
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony-GB View Post
    That is a crazy looking dial. Forgive my ignorance, but is it a "picture" of the actual inner workings of the watch?
    Hi Tony, yes itís a depiction of the integrated circuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetlee View Post
    Congrats OP, I've seen these before. The dial sure is funky and unusual.

    Crazywatchespl did a nice piece on the 352 movement
    http://www.crazywatches.pl/girard-pe...52-quartz-1972

    I would imagine it will be a challenge finding parts so best of luck with it. Hope to see it up and running in a Friday thread in the future.
    Thanks mate yes seen that article before.
    I will have it up and running again soon



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #5
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Yep as RW said it's a simplified diagram of the Motorola chip used in these movements. Very cool movement too. Designed by GP with Jaeger LeCoultre, who sold these with their name on it, as did Breitling, Favre Leuba, Revue and Consul(only three of the former and one of the latter have ever come to light. Yours truly has the Consul and fellow member CarltonBrowne has two of the Revues). They were also designed from the get go with longevity and watchmakers in mind. The main plate says "No Jewels" because it used teflon bearings instead(some have stopped because some watchmakers have oiled the bearings). The stepping motor in these is a work of engineering art and with more torque than the usual quartz movements certainly at the time. No exposed coil to hit and short out while changing batteries either. And it set the standard frequency for the vast majority of quartz oscillators that followed it. At the time they were put forward for observatory chronometer testing, a higher spec test than the usual chronometer testing that tested just the movements and over a shorter time scale and they passed with more than flying colours. Under a minute per year is easily attained which was crazy accurate for a wristwatch in 1972.

    They're pretty robust. The quartz crystal can die, but a new one will work because of the common standard frequency. The keyless works and date change mech isn't the greatest design though. They were dry lubricated when new and I suspect that gives up the ghost nearly 50 years in. Fixable though.

    This dial design although prominently featured in their marketing at the time(72) are vanishingly rare to find. Up to a few years back word on the various forums was that they were a promotional item and never actually sold to the public. Even today looking at examples online there would fewer than ten around and that includes GP's museum example. I searched for one for well over five years. From what "research" I've been to able to gather, three of the online ones anyway were originally owned by Motorola employees, one was a retirement gift. I suspect another more prosaic explanation is that they were just too "out there" and "wacky" a dial for a watch that was certainly not cheap at the time*, so just didn't sell to more conservative buyers, IE those with the cash to spend.

    Redwolfs is rarer again as it's in a case design I've never seen that particular dial come in. Well wear Good to see another come to light. A few of the "ordinary" ones come up on the Bay regularly enough, though prices have climbed, so spares should be easy enough to come by. Auctions for the gold plated ones are probably your best bet on price.




    *because back then quartz was new and the very latest technology and we were still all Modernists :) they were very sought after and prices reflected that. Vintage adverts can be eye opening. Redwolfs example above - with more conservative dials - were more expensive than say the various steel cased "sports" Rolex. And they were the "affordable" end of the new tech. Omega and others Beta 21 quartz' were multiples the price again. Like near a 1000 quid when an Omega Speedy was more like 180 quid. Longines Ultraquartz the same(they came with insurance as part of the deal). Which also means they were very well made, with the best cases, dials(Singer in the above example) and bracelets. They've gained in value in the last few years as interest has increased and more collectors have come into it, but as much as there are "bargains" in vintage watches, these IMHO still are.

  6. #6
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Thanks Wibbs, for that very informative post
    I also would like to add these two threads here for my own reference.

    The Great Grandad of Quartz- Girard Perregaux Calibre 352 Project
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...4&share_type=t



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  7. #7
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    And this
    Another early G-P 352 quartz but from a 6th maker...
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...8&share_type=t


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  8. #8
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post

    The Great Grandad of Quartz- Girard Perregaux Calibre 352 Project
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...4&share_type=t
    Great thread, sadly RaulG's webpage is gone, at least for me. It was very informative and now I'm sorry I didn't PDF it for reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    And this
    Another early G-P 352 quartz but from a 6th maker...
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...8&share_type=t
    That would be mine. Very of its time. Just a tad naff now. And naff is being kind. It does go to show me at least how "cool" and "relevant" can change over time. Back then the IBM punchcard would have been just as relevant, if not more so than a "silicon chip"(ahhh I remember Tomorrow's World: "This has a silicon chip in it". And the Great Egg Race, but I digress...). Today the chip is still relevant, the punch card, nope. Like having a floppy(when they were floppy) disk icon on your Omega dial.

  9. #9
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Honestly I think that punchcard consul is the dogs nuts, I love it.
    Hereís a few of mine
    The first one I got that I sold on (regrettable)

    This one was too beaten up for me so had to go too.

    This one is going nowhere. One of my favourite watches the linen dial



    This one a prototype confirmed by FL, was lost in the post late last year, gutted to say the least!!


    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  10. #10
    This thread has given me a lob on. Thanks for all the info and pics. Bravo! : )

  11. #11
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    That Favre is a rare old beast alright. Sad to lose it. :(


    Here's a few of mine.



    Left hand crown. To show off how you didn't have to wind/set it so often I suppose. Or Cos the 70's :) It's a right expletive deleted to set it when you do need to though. I have a second example that came on a strap only with a linen dial.



    Consul with an IBM punchcard dial. Couldn't be any more 70's if it tried.



    They were bought into by Girard Perregaux at the time. Seemed to sell ladies pendent watches for the most part, with the occasional chronograph. When I asked GP years ago they had no record of this watch being produced.

    And my Tron dial GP. With the original GP stamped Milanese bracelet.



    Oh the years I quested for that one. I know your journey Redwolf. I was surprised at the quality of the dial printing. It's quite three dimensional as it were. There's a gold version but it doesn't have the depth of paint and only one colour compared to three. They're just as rare though.

  12. #12
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post
    That Favre is a rare old beast alright. Sad to lose it. :(


    Here's a few of mine.



    Left hand crown. To show off how you didn't have to wind/set it so often I suppose. Or Cos the 70's :) It's a right expletive deleted to set it when you do need to though. I have a second example that came on a strap only with a linen dial.



    Consul with an IBM punchcard dial. Couldn't be any more 70's if it tried.



    They were bought into by Girard Perregaux at the time. Seemed to sell ladies pendent watches for the most part, with the occasional chronograph. When I asked GP years ago they had no record of this watch being produced.

    And my Tron dial GP. With the original GP stamped Milanese bracelet.



    Oh the years I quested for that one. I know your journey Redwolf. I was surprised at the quality of the dial printing. It's quite three dimensional as it were. There's a gold version but it doesn't have the depth of paint and only one colour compared to three. They're just as rare though.
    Nice mate! Love the ibm punchcard
    And that rectangle GP and...... and ......
    The dial quality is definitely a work of art. Something they put a lot of effort into for sure.
    The gold ones are nice but as a collector itís all about SS personally.
    Whatís the ref code of your Tron btw?
    Iíll have a look at mine later. Is the code application for the bracelet fitted ?
    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #13
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony-GB View Post
    This thread has given me a lob on. Thanks for all the info and pics. Bravo! : )



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  14. #14
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwolf View Post
    Whatís the ref code of your Tron btw?
    Iíll have a look at mine later. Is the code application for the bracelet fitted ?
    Thanks
    Mine has 9444 KP on the back. 9444 being the case type and until yours came to light the only case Iíve seen with this dial, so thatís cool. :) KP being the Milanese bracelet/strap(found a mechanical movement GP online with a similar type of bracelet with KP stamped on the back). HA was a leather strap. Their advertising literature used the 9444 part, followed by a number for the metal of the case and strap. So a 9444/4 was a steel case and strap IIRC.

    The 350 series movements went through a few tweaks over a few years. Most of the parts are fully interchangeable except for the quartz can which was rotated to the side to allow for a thinner movement and case. So you can put a later movement into an earlier case, but not the other way around. Slightly different regulator knob, chips being gold covered at first and then black(you can date the chip manufacture by the four digit number on it. So 7213 say would be the 13th week of 1972(you can find this on many of the early quartz chips). The date of the watches themselves is uncertain. When asked GP will just come back with a date of 1972. Clearly they don't have the records of a Longines or Omega. The earliest chip dates I've seen are 71, the latest 74. There were apparently 40,000 movements made shared between the various companies that used them. I have seen a few with later inscriptions engraved on the back. Retirement gifts and the like and the latest date I've seen was mid 1980's, so it seems a few were laying on shelves for years. There was also a fair number of NOS examples that appeared on the market about ten(?) years back.

    By 75 they were older and expensive tech and the digitals were coming in greater numbers and at much lower prices from the Far East. Added to a really bad exchange rate it meant the Swiss couldn't compete. It was as much this (and the new digitals) as quartz itself that decimated the Swiss industry. Though Seiko just pipped them to the post in selling the first one to the public, the Swiss had been the pioneers in quartz tech.

  15. #15
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post
    Mine has 9444 KP on the back. 9444 being the case type and until yours came to light the only case Iíve seen with this dial, so thatís cool. :) KP being the Milanese bracelet/strap(found a mechanical movement GP online with a similar type of bracelet with KP stamped on the back). HA was a leather strap. Their advertising literature used the 9444 part, followed by a number for the metal of the case and strap. So a 9444/4 was a steel case and strap IIRC.

    The 350 series movements went through a few tweaks over a few years. Most of the parts are fully interchangeable except for the quartz can which was rotated to the side to allow for a thinner movement and case. So you can put a later movement into an earlier case, but not the other way around. Slightly different regulator knob, chips being gold covered at first and then black(you can date the chip manufacture by the four digit number on it. So 7213 say would be the 13th week of 1972(you can find this on many of the early quartz chips). The date of the watches themselves is uncertain. When asked GP will just come back with a date of 1972. Clearly they don't have the records of a Longines or Omega. The earliest chip dates I've seen are 71, the latest 74. There were apparently 40,000 movements made shared between the various companies that used them. I have seen a few with later inscriptions engraved on the back. Retirement gifts and the like and the latest date I've seen was mid 1980's, so it seems a few were laying on shelves for years. There was also a fair number of NOS examples that appeared on the market about ten(?) years back.

    By 75 they were older and expensive tech and the digitals were coming in greater numbers and at much lower prices from the Far East. Added to a really bad exchange rate it meant the Swiss couldn't compete. It was as much this (and the new digitals) as quartz itself that decimated the Swiss industry. Though Seiko just pipped them to the post in selling the first one to the public, the Swiss had been the pioneers in quartz tech.
    Once again fantastic input! Thanks

    My reference is 9515 KA, guessing KA is the type of strap I have , and what a good looking strap it is too!


    C


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  16. #16
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South east
    Posts
    4,370
    Iíve got the gold circuit board version somewhere. Always fancied the steel version.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  17. #17

    Steel GP 9444?

    Dear All:

    i've been looking for a steel 9444 Girard Perregaux with the blue circuit board dial, but they seem hard to come by.

    may i please ask if anyone knows of one that might be available?

    thank you in advance.

  18. #18
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Best of luck in your search Dualmonitors, but I suspect you'll be searching for quite a while. As I noted earlier: This dial design although prominently featured in their marketing at the time(72) are vanishingly rare to find. Up to a few years back word on the various forums was that they were a promotional item and never actually sold to the public. Even today looking at examples online there would fewer than ten around and that includes GP's museum example. I searched for one for well over five years. Since I got mine over five years go I have seen four show up and only two were for sale. But you never know one could come up tomorrow. Ebay seems to be the best bet.

  19. #19
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    And sheís back, fully serviced and Simon Freese polished too.

  20. #20
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Nice. Where did you get it serviced R?

  21. #21
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post
    Nice. Where did you get it serviced R?
    A German guy named Peter Wenzig.
    He has loads of spare parts and knows his way around this model.

  22. #22
    Master Wibbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,027
    Oh I remember that name. Mainly because he's one of the very few out there that would even look at a Longines UltraQuartz.

  23. #23
    Craftsman Redwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    London
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post
    Oh I remember that name. Mainly because he's one of the very few out there that would even look at a Longines UltraQuartz.
    Yes mate, heís got a very good reputation.

  24. #24
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    223
    Unique dial - havent seen something like that before.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •