closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 93

Thread: In Paris: Notre Dame on fire!

  1. #1
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8

    In Paris: Notre Dame on fire!

    Breaking news here in Holland - I suppose the same in the UK? The Notre Dame is on fire. And it is a big one! Pics clearly show the flames coming through the roof. This is very very sad.


  2. #2
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    30,559
    Yes on the BBC now, really awful thing to see.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  3. #3
    Very sad, it does look bad.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  4. #4
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    12,033
    Blog Entries
    5
    Indeed very sad from an historical perspective and let’s hope it is just an accident due to renovation work and not something more

    https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attac...-1370800?amp=1

  5. #5
    Master blackal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    9,515
    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    Indeed very sad from an historical perspective and let’s hope it is just an accident due to renovation work and not something more

    https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attac...-1370800?amp=1

    Prob not covered for act of terrorism, but odds are - connected to the renovation work going on

  6. #6
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North and South.
    Posts
    30,559
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Prob not covered for act of terrorism, but odds are - connected to the renovation work going on
    Indeed, odd that potential terrorist action is being muted.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  7. #7
    I'm not a religious person, but it's still awful to see a beautiful piece of architecture like that ablaze. I live quite close to Salisbury Cathedral and have been there many times. If anything happened to that I'd be gutted. Literally irreplaceable, we don't have the skills to build something like that any more.

    I hope they get Notre Dame under control soon.

    Plug

  8. #8
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    This pic looks like a 21st Century interpretation of a Jeronimus Bosch painting about heaven and hell. Those birds flying over the burning roof...



    EDIT: My youngest: "That's exactly like Game of Thrones!" Philistine that he is!
    Last edited by thieuster; 15th April 2019 at 20:02.

  9. #9
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    NW Leics
    Posts
    8,153
    759 years since it was completed - terrific innings.

  10. #10
    Master Franco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    South Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,359
    Blog Entries
    1
    Horrible to see, was in there few months ago.

  11. #11
    Craftsman jimmbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Shropshire, UK
    Posts
    678
    Dreadful stuff. :(

  12. #12
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,910
    We do still have the skills - look at what a good job they did of York Minster after its fire in 1984

  13. #13
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    Some sources tell that the fire brigade first went in to secure as many treasures/relics/art as possible before they started to fight the flames with full force. As far as I can see behind my keyboard, not a bad approach! The roof is replaceable, the relics etc not.

    Surely there's a plan about 'what and how' when a calamity of this proportion turns up. I hope it has worked.

    Menno

  14. #14
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    24,924
    Very sad to see, however I am sure they will be able to restore it over time. Just as they did with Windsor Castle and other.

    I really hope that its not terrorism related otherwise it simply makes a bad situation worse. .

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  15. #15
    Grand Master dkpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    10,802
    It's very sad to see all that history and art destroyed. It seems a risky business to get the restorers in, they did for Windsor castle and the Mackintosh building, twice.
    David
    Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

  16. #16
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Very sad to see, however I am sure they will be able to restore it over time. Just as they did with Windsor Castle and other.

    I really hope that its not terrorism related otherwise it simply makes a bad situation worse. .
    I share your ideas. How sad is it that we have to consider this sort of things when we see something dreadful like this

  17. #17
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,925
    The police are saying they're not sure who started it but they've got a hunch.
    "A man of little significance"

  18. #18
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Petersfield, Hampshire
    Posts
    6,308
    Very sad, my condolences to the French and particularly our French members. It may be just a building but these iconic buildings become part of our national and therefore personal identity.

    Apparently there was some restoration going one (I suspect there always is). If that is found to be the cause it will join Uppark, The Glasgow School of Art and The Cutty Sark.
    Last edited by Jeremy67; 15th April 2019 at 20:13.

  19. #19
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield
    Posts
    1,801
    Absolutely terrible :(

  20. #20
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Die Fuchsröhre
    Posts
    14,925
    It is terrible, it was a beautiful building but all repairable.

    And surely when it's a cathedral or church the cause has to be an act of god?
    "A man of little significance"

  21. #21
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Mainly UK
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    The police are saying they're not sure who started it but they've got a hunch.

  22. #22
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Up North hinny
    Posts
    39,473
    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Some sources tell that the fire brigade first went in to secure as many treasures/relics/art as possible before they started to fight the flames with full force. As far as I can see behind my keyboard, not a bad approach! The roof is replaceable, the relics etc not.

    Surely there's a plan about 'what and how' when a calamity of this proportion turns up. I hope it has worked.

    Menno

    In the UK that's a Major Incident Plan (at least it was when I was in the service). A pre determined attendance with appliances going to set positions on a site where water, manpower etc would likely be needed. At Durham Cathedral there are fixed pumping points down at river level which go up to outlets at the top of the (very steep) bankside. Also there are static tanks under the Palace Green with 50,000 gallons of water for immediate use. There's an extensive fire detection system in there as well.
    F.T.F.A.

  23. #23
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Petersfield, Hampshire
    Posts
    6,308
    I'm ashamed to admit this has only just occurred to me but let's hope and (optionally) pray that there has been no loss of life or injury.

  24. #24
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Petersfield, Hampshire
    Posts
    6,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    And surely when it's a cathedral or church the cause has to be an act of god?
    I suspect that if there is a God then those men who have nominated themselves to speak for him over the years may well have over sold his inclination towards micro management.

  25. #25
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Saundersfoot, UK
    Posts
    1,305
    A real shocker. Given the spread, I’m not sure the towers will survive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    42,911
    Timber framed buildings are at significant risk during construction/renovation. Vintage ones even more so - precautions, protection and diligence cannot be high enough.

    Sad sight to see, it will be pretty much a total loss.

    Bob is bang on with the pre-planning stuff, but there should have been much more in place to cover the risk of this iconic building during the renovation.
    Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 15th April 2019 at 21:32.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  27. #27
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    sussex uk
    Posts
    15,483
    Blog Entries
    1
    Such a shame, many happy memories there.

  28. #28
    A real tragedy to lose such an iconic building from the landscape. Mesmerising to see such a global icon. It really can't be replaced.

  29. #29
    Master raringtogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Warwickshire
    Posts
    1,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    I suspect that if there is a God then those men who have nominated themselves to speak for him over the years may well have over sold his inclination towards micro management.
    Excuse my ignorance but is this a known quote or your personal view, either way, those are my exact feelings and summed up so wonderfully.

    That's All Folks

  30. #30
    Master subseastu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ashby, uk
    Posts
    2,223
    Sat on a plane on the way to rio in paris right now. Glimpsed the effeil tower on the way in but didn't see any blaze. Anyway this is sad news and just hope no one has been killed or injured and the services have managed to save as much as they could before tackling the fire.

    Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Torquay, Devon. Great place to work and relax. Love flying and lots of great sea walks.
    Posts
    2,551
    Absolutely heart breaking ! Such a stunningly beautiful gothic building being destroyed. Current view is that the fire started in the roof area and may be due to renovation being carried out. No mention of terrorism. No reported casualties. Sadly it appears no fire prevention system installed or nearby. And right next to the river !
    Irreplaceable !

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Webwatchmaker; 15th April 2019 at 22:40.

  32. #32
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    Interesting reading material here: https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/statu...47726786371585 Lots of info that was new to me.

    Menno

  33. #33
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    42,911
    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Interesting reading material here: https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/statu...47726786371585 Lots of info that was new to me.

    Menno
    Think this guy is in the US?

    Most of what he posts is not the current best practice across the world - the US has a large number of volunteers and a high mortality rate for firefighters.

    They are very enthusiastic but rely on outdated techniques and practices.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  34. #34
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Think this guy is in the US?

    Most of what he posts is not the current best practice across the world - the US has a large number of volunteers and a high mortality rate for firefighters.

    They are very enthusiastic but rely on outdated techniques and practices.
    Reading his Twitter bio I'd say he's American. It's more about the precautions on how to prevent a fire to get 'big' etc. I can't comment on the quality of the equipment and the training of people.

    (BTW: 80% of firefighters here in the Netherlands are volunteers as well. It's an interesting side job for people in the building trade, science teachers etc. Most employers are keen on hiring personnel who's a voluntary firefighter)

    Menno

  35. #35
    Master Skier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Cheltenham, UK
    Posts
    2,938
    Here's hoping enough has been saved for a rebuild. Truly tragic loss. I cycled past it just 3 weeks ago on the french equivalent of Boris Bikes (Velib).

  36. #36
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lincoln
    Posts
    2,054
    Horrible this is genuinely one of the most stunning places I’ve ever been


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  37. #37
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    301
    So heartbreaking.

    What do you think about the rebuild prospects?

    I dont mean to be a pessimist but it looks pretty extensive, not just the entire roof but even the top layer of support. How would you go about replacing a near perfect norman gothic roof from 800 years ago? Do we still have the knowledge, skills and patience to take it on? It would have to be a perfect recreation of what was there, can modern technology do that?

  38. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Torquay, Devon. Great place to work and relax. Love flying and lots of great sea walks.
    Posts
    2,551
    Macron has pledged to rebuild it with international help. I can't help being cynical to suggest that this tragic event may give him valuable breathing space from his trouble with the yellow vests.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  39. #39
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    New Plymouth, New Zealand
    Posts
    90
    Utterly gutted. I love Paris and Notre-Dame has been an intrinsic part of just about every visit to the city.
    Heard that a firefighter had been injured so obviously hoping that it is not too serious.

  40. #40
    Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    1,026
    Devastating. I'm also understanding that the magnificent organ has been lost - look for Daniel Roth playing this on YouTube. The one glimmer of hope is that a recent detailed laser scan of the interior will guide the recreation.

  41. #41
    Master Artistmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Devon, U.K.
    Posts
    1,806
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    What do you think about the rebuild prospects?

    I dont mean to be a pessimist but it looks pretty extensive, not just the entire roof but even the top layer of support. How would you go about replacing a near perfect norman gothic roof from 800 years ago? Do we still have the knowledge, skills and patience to take it on? It would have to be a perfect recreation of what was there, can modern technology do that?
    Given that thousands of mature oak trees and others went into it's construction, some well over four hundred years old, it's doubtful whether the timber is actually available in Europe to do the job now so a radical re-think will be on the cards when they come to build the replica...

  42. #42
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Malta and sometimes bits of Brit
    Posts
    5,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Artistmike View Post
    Given that thousands of mature oak trees and others went into it's construction, some well over four hundred years old, it's doubtful whether the timber is actually available in Europe to do the job now so a radical re-think will be on the cards when they come to build the replica...
    Gluelam...

  43. #43
    On R4 this morning I heard the spire was already a rebuild from the original. Magnificent that the fire service appear to have saved the stonework.

  44. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Torquay, Devon. Great place to work and relax. Love flying and lots of great sea walks.
    Posts
    2,551
    I wonder how this sad event will affect all the traders and artisans in the area. The stalls around this cathedral were also a great pleasure to explore.
    Parisians truly look heartbroken this morning.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  45. #45
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    GMT+1
    Posts
    11,749
    Blog Entries
    8
    I hadn't thought about the availability of the wood, tbh. You could be absolutely right. And, can you use 'fresh' timber for work like this? I guess when they started building this sort of churches, they felled a bunch of trees and let them 'adjust'. The same way we do with planks for parquet floors. I'm absolutely no expert on this. Would be nice to learn about that from someone here who has this sort of knowledge. The Dutch the rebuild of the 17th Century merchant ship Batavia. That took years and year. There were(...) also plans to reconstruct the Zeven Provinciën, the admiral ship of the Dutch (17th century) navy. The project is on hold because it's simply too intricate to build this within a reasonable time and for a reasonable sum of money.

    Talking about money: Dutch papers mention the fact that Group Artemis (owner of Gucci etc) has pledged 100 million euros to help to rebuild the ND.

    According to Wiki, they started building in 1163 and it was finished in 1345 (final hand on the interior). I suppose that watching the rebuild of this church, will learn a lot about the monumental en brilliant job the people in the Middle Ages did! Normally, we look up and listen to the guide telling us how difficult it was. Now, with the aid of -let's say- Discovery Channel we can follow this closely. In a way, this can tie us stronger to our European history.

  46. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Torquay, Devon. Great place to work and relax. Love flying and lots of great sea walks.
    Posts
    2,551
    Apparently the main structure has been preserved.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxy100 View Post
    It is terrible, it was a beautiful building but all repairable.

    And surely when it's a cathedral or church the cause has to be an act of god?
    Pledges of 100M euros and 200M euros already in from Artemis and LMVH
    Good to see

  48. #48
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Up North hinny
    Posts
    39,473
    Quote Originally Posted by catch21 View Post
    On R4 this morning I heard the spire was already a rebuild from the original. Magnificent that the fire service appear to have saved the stonework.

    Whilst the stonework is still standing it may not be stable enough to remain. We wont know what effects the temperatures have had on the stone until a full survey has been done.
    F.T.F.A.

  49. #49
    Master arthurDALEY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The Winchester Club
    Posts
    2,076

  50. #50
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    24,924
    ^^^^ That's enough to give people the hump.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information