Breaking news here in Holland - I suppose the same in the UK? The Notre Dame is on fire. And it is a big one! Pics clearly show the flames coming through the roof. This is very very sad.
Breaking news here in Holland - I suppose the same in the UK? The Notre Dame is on fire. And it is a big one! Pics clearly show the flames coming through the roof. This is very very sad.
Yes on the BBC now, really awful thing to see.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Very sad, it does look bad.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Indeed very sad from an historical perspective and let’s hope it is just an accident due to renovation work and not something more
https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attac...-1370800?amp=1
Originally Posted by mart broad
Prob not covered for act of terrorism, but odds are - connected to the renovation work going on
Indeed, odd that potential terrorist action is being muted.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
I'm not a religious person, but it's still awful to see a beautiful piece of architecture like that ablaze. I live quite close to Salisbury Cathedral and have been there many times. If anything happened to that I'd be gutted. Literally irreplaceable, we don't have the skills to build something like that any more.
I hope they get Notre Dame under control soon.
Plug
This pic looks like a 21st Century interpretation of a Jeronimus Bosch painting about heaven and hell. Those birds flying over the burning roof...
EDIT: My youngest: "That's exactly like Game of Thrones!" Philistine that he is!
Last edited by thieuster; 15th April 2019 at 20:02.
759 years since it was completed - terrific innings.
We do still have the skills - look at what a good job they did of York Minster after its fire in 1984
Some sources tell that the fire brigade first went in to secure as many treasures/relics/art as possible before they started to fight the flames with full force. As far as I can see behind my keyboard, not a bad approach! The roof is replaceable, the relics etc not.
Surely there's a plan about 'what and how' when a calamity of this proportion turns up. I hope it has worked.
Menno
In the UK that's a Major Incident Plan (at least it was when I was in the service). A pre determined attendance with appliances going to set positions on a site where water, manpower etc would likely be needed. At Durham Cathedral there are fixed pumping points down at river level which go up to outlets at the top of the (very steep) bankside. Also there are static tanks under the Palace Green with 50,000 gallons of water for immediate use. There's an extensive fire detection system in there as well.
F.T.F.A.
I'm ashamed to admit this has only just occurred to me but let's hope and (optionally) pray that there has been no loss of life or injury.
Miraculously the organ is understood to have survived almost unscaved. The stone archway in which it sits seems to have protected it from both the fire and channeled the water either side.
Very sad to see, however I am sure they will be able to restore it over time. Just as they did with Windsor Castle and other.
I really hope that its not terrorism related otherwise it simply makes a bad situation worse. .
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I share your ideas. How sad is it that we have to consider this sort of things when we see something dreadful like this
The police are saying they're not sure who started it but they've got a hunch.
"A man of little significance"
Very sad, my condolences to the French and particularly our French members. It may be just a building but these iconic buildings become part of our national and therefore personal identity.
Apparently there was some restoration going one (I suspect there always is). If that is found to be the cause it will join Uppark, The Glasgow School of Art and The Cutty Sark.
Last edited by Jeremy67; 15th April 2019 at 20:13.
Absolutely terrible :(
It's very sad to see all that history and art destroyed. It seems a risky business to get the restorers in, they did for Windsor castle and the Mackintosh building, twice.
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
A real shocker. Given the spread, I’m not sure the towers will survive.
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Timber framed buildings are at significant risk during construction/renovation. Vintage ones even more so - precautions, protection and diligence cannot be high enough.
Sad sight to see, it will be pretty much a total loss.
Bob is bang on with the pre-planning stuff, but there should have been much more in place to cover the risk of this iconic building during the renovation.
Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 15th April 2019 at 21:32.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Such a shame, many happy memories there.
A real tragedy to lose such an iconic building from the landscape. Mesmerising to see such a global icon. It really can't be replaced.
Sat on a plane on the way to rio in paris right now. Glimpsed the effeil tower on the way in but didn't see any blaze. Anyway this is sad news and just hope no one has been killed or injured and the services have managed to save as much as they could before tackling the fire.
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Absolutely heart breaking ! Such a stunningly beautiful gothic building being destroyed. Current view is that the fire started in the roof area and may be due to renovation being carried out. No mention of terrorism. No reported casualties. Sadly it appears no fire prevention system installed or nearby. And right next to the river !
Irreplaceable !
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Last edited by Webwatchmaker; 15th April 2019 at 22:40.
Interesting reading material here: https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/statu...47726786371585 Lots of info that was new to me.
Menno
Think this guy is in the US?
Most of what he posts is not the current best practice across the world - the US has a large number of volunteers and a high mortality rate for firefighters.
They are very enthusiastic but rely on outdated techniques and practices.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Reading his Twitter bio I'd say he's American. It's more about the precautions on how to prevent a fire to get 'big' etc. I can't comment on the quality of the equipment and the training of people.
(BTW: 80% of firefighters here in the Netherlands are volunteers as well. It's an interesting side job for people in the building trade, science teachers etc. Most employers are keen on hiring personnel who's a voluntary firefighter)
Menno
Here's hoping enough has been saved for a rebuild. Truly tragic loss. I cycled past it just 3 weeks ago on the french equivalent of Boris Bikes (Velib).
So heartbreaking.
What do you think about the rebuild prospects?
I dont mean to be a pessimist but it looks pretty extensive, not just the entire roof but even the top layer of support. How would you go about replacing a near perfect norman gothic roof from 800 years ago? Do we still have the knowledge, skills and patience to take it on? It would have to be a perfect recreation of what was there, can modern technology do that?
Horrible this is genuinely one of the most stunning places I’ve ever been
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Macron has pledged to rebuild it with international help. I can't help being cynical to suggest that this tragic event may give him valuable breathing space from his trouble with the yellow vests.
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So....No insurance then?
Or was it self insured by the Church?
Interesting.
Repairs are expected to cost in excess of one billion euros.
You could save the lives of a lot of starving children for that.
It's a beautiful building, but that's all it is....a building.
Just seen the latest pics from Paris.
Despite the damage done and restoration required, I'd still shag her.
Fas est ab hoste doceri
I can't help feeling somewhat the same. I bet the pleas for assistance with recent floods, earthquakes and Tsunamis got nowhere close to a billion euros !
I love that building as I do all cathedrals I have visited, but which is more Christian ?
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A Christian might point to the example of Mary anointing Jesus’ feet with expensive oil. When criticised by Judas, Jesus replied:
“Leave her alone so that she may keep it for the day of my burial. For the poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me.” John 12:1-8
Which sounds a bit harsh, but maybe there should be space for something eternal such as the beauty and spirituality of Notre Dame.
But a Christian might also point out the verse immediately prior to the one you quoted.
"He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it." John 12:6
So Judas Iscariot's expression of concern was not so much for the poor, but for the fact that he helped himself to the contents of the money bag. Doubtless he was thinking about how much a pint of pure nard could have been sold for (about a year's wages) and what proportion of the resulting funds he could have kept for himself.
So perhaps the meaning behind the passage is that you should be wary of accepting at face value the arguments put forth by those wishing to appear virtuous.
Somewhat prophetic, perhaps, in the context of Notre Dame and the rush from some multi-nationals to offer generous donations, particularly when those donations are likely be offset against tax!
Then again, I may simply be too cynical.
Last edited by willie_gunn; 17th April 2019 at 17:41.
Money isn't being diverted from saving children to rebuild the cathedral and the money isn't lost from the economy either. It will create employment, train craftsmen and such like.
Without buildings like this our civilisation would be a lot poorer. The starving might well disagree but they are a separate issue.
It will also cost a forest of centennial oaks and several deaths in construction accidents.
What burned is góne. Tant pis.
It is a disgrace that the rich make hundreds of millions available in dáys for a burned down temple of tourism whereas réal problems lack funds.
Notre dame is a symbol for the French, something priceless even for non-Catholics. It is one of the most iconic buildings in France. And it is obviousy very dear to all French and whoever loves Paris.
A little like Westminster Abbey for the British or the Florence Duomo for Tuscans.
So , if French magnates want to donate for its reconstructions, that’s fine by me. And it is obvious and much easier for them to donate an avalanche of tax-free money and make yourself beautiful in the eyes of all that open a school in the Congo for example.
Personally, with my money would never donate to that, but rather to projects of more human merit. Is also true that it's a drama but not a tragedy, having been Notre Dame reworked many times, and the original parts have been only slightly damaged.
But it is a symbol for them. It identifies a capital and its people. And they can do what they want with their donations.
Fatalities will (statistically) occur during construction of large projects (Olympic stadia etc.). Can be deemed unnecessary but society still chooses to build them.
My understanding is that Notre Dame is a state asset, the state self-insures, the government is responsible and will welcome all contributions
AXA were the insurers for the main contractors and if the contractors are found to be at fault, AXA will have to stump up its share.
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Utterly gutted. I love Paris and Notre-Dame has been an intrinsic part of just about every visit to the city.
Heard that a firefighter had been injured so obviously hoping that it is not too serious.
Devastating. I'm also understanding that the magnificent organ has been lost - look for Daniel Roth playing this on YouTube. The one glimmer of hope is that a recent detailed laser scan of the interior will guide the recreation.
I wonder how this sad event will affect all the traders and artisans in the area. The stalls around this cathedral were also a great pleasure to explore.
Parisians truly look heartbroken this morning.
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Apparently the main structure has been preserved.
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Pledges of 100M euros and 200M euros already in from Artemis and LMVH
Good to see
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