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Thread: Driving around learner drivers

  1. #1
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Driving around learner drivers

    I am quite astonished at how badly people drive around learner drivers…. No empathy and even less patience

    I got a an old ford KA to help teach my eldest daughter to drive…. She’s doing really well, but will be slower / observing the speed limit and will make the odd error

    Other drivers were, in the main, appalling…. At one stage she managed to stall coming out of a T Junction and someone directly behind aggressively beeped their horn. I am by no means a confrontational type, but, I got out my car to be confronted by a 60 year old woman…. I yelled “she’s learning to drive…. BAD…. NO’….” A pretty stupid thing to do on my part as it didn’t help Grace and she just flicked me the rods anyway!

    Any of you had similar experiences?

    Be kind out there!

    Ben

  2. #2
    Master draftsmann's Avatar
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    Bring her to Malta to learn to drive. For a nervous learner our crowded roads and unscientific approach would either kill or cure.

  3. #3
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draftsmann View Post
    Bring her to Malta to learn to drive. For a nervous learner our crowded roads and unscientific approach would either kill or cure.
    Ha! Having experienced many other driving ‘cultures’ maybe we aren’t so bad!

  4. #4
    People have no tolerance for any bad driving these days

  5. #5
    Following my son on his first motorcycle ride after passing his CBT was terrifying. No tolerance of L plates at all, and he didn't have the luxury of a metal cage around him.

  6. #6
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    Sadly the roads are full of inconsiderate, intolerant drivers who have the sole intention of getting wherever they are going as selfishly as possible.
    It is a shame other road users quickly forget that they were once learners.
    Frustrating as it may be it is the right thing to give space and time to learner drives.

  7. #7
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    Ignoring them is always the best policy. You should be deliberately calm and cool when driving.

    Ironically I usually find its the experienced middle aged and older drivers who drive terribly rather than the younger ones.

    Lack of signals , late and random lane changes , undertaking , blasting through 50 zones at 70 plus.

    Usually an older driver with 3 kids jumping around the back.

    When I sat my test I had someone pull out as I was going around a roundabout , had my signal on at the right time . His vision was clear , must have seen me. He came out so close to me and so fast I couldn’t stop and I had to swerve around the front of him to stop him t-boning me , Thankfully there was no one on the other side of the road on the exit .

    Passed the test but I was a nervous wreck after that. Driver was middle aged.

  8. #8
    Craftsman Frakius's Avatar
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    I don't drive badly around them and don't notice anyone else doing the same around them, the only bad driving going on is their bad driving I live down the road from a driving school and it does get old been stuck behind them every day as they sit at the intersection for 10 minutes missing every opening or stopping on the side of the road and blocking everyone behind them or driving at 15 in the 30mph etc etc etc.....I admit I am bitter after living near to a school for 10 years and having to put up with them every day as they use the road I drive on every day to learn

  9. #9
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frakius View Post
    I don't drive badly around them and don't notice anyone else doing the same around them, the only bad driving going on is their bad driving I live down the road from a driving school and it does get old been stuck behind them every day as they sit at the intersection for 10 minutes missing every opening or stopping on the side of the road and blocking everyone behind them or driving at 15 in the 30mph etc etc etc.....I admit I am bitter after living near to a school for 10 years and having to put up with them every day as they use the road I drive on every day to learn
    You’re not a 60 year old woman living in Leicestershire are you?
    Last edited by Wolfie; 14th April 2019 at 10:48.

  10. #10
    Craftsman Megatron's Avatar
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    I remember only too well the terror of stalling at a busy junction and literally feeling the eyeballs of everyone glaring in at me whilst I sweated and struggled. I try to remember that and back off and give them as much space and time as they need; I'm sure in a few years when I'm in the passenger seat when my kids learn I would struggle to contain it if they were being harassed.

    I see plenty of worse driving from people that are either too hesitant or too aggressive that have been "qualified" for years

  11. #11
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    The rule of thumb is, the least tolerant and ill behaved drivers are those who cannot drive for sh1t themselves.
    BREXIT: If not a single county, apart of Mauritania, trade under WTO rules, why this organisation even exists and 164 nations out of 193 decided to be voluntary bound by its rules?

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    Craftsman Megatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    The rule of thumb is, the least tolerant and ill behaved drivers are those who cannot drive for sh1t themselves.
    I'd say that is a very accurate observation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Ha! Having experienced many other driving ‘cultures’ maybe we aren’t so bad!
    Over here it´s ok, actually. Not the driving standard; that is on average as bad as anywhere, but the ´L´ plate is generally well respected. As are UK plates/RHD drive; simple self preservation.
    Also especially during winter months the hire cars are pottered around by pensioners; same thing; most shrug and give them wide birth.
    Lastly there are many moped-cars about. Again same thing.
    Bottom line is that the norm is less agression.

    One almost exception: Over here the roundabouts are baffling most drivers. Turning right from the inside lane or continuing to go round on the outside lane on a triple lane one instead of turning off, are the norm. Near escapes are things as usual and that does give rise to horns used. As auditive signals more than agression though.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  14. #14
    I have never driven around a learner or tailgated one, it’s not the learners that are at fault it is the teachers, taking a learner out in the morning or evening rush hour causes chaos, huge tailbacks and bad tempers, lessons should be banned between 7-9 am and 4-6m, or at least kept away from main commuter routes.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I have never driven around a learner or tailgated one, it’s not the learners that are at fault it is the teachers, taking a learner out in the morning or evening rush hour causes chaos, huge tailbacks and bad tempers, lessons should be banned between 7-9 am and 4-6m, or at least kept away from main commuter routes.
    Quite agree, bloody nuisance.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    My son has his lessons on Saturday mornings. When I take him out, we use a C road so he can practice his starts and stops and 3 point turns. We try not to cause anyone any problems, but if we do then it's tough titties really. People just need to remember what they were like when they first started to learn to drive.

    Also most "learner" cars are usually manuals with tiny engines and zero torque, hence clutch control can be tricky especially when pulling away.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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    I’d also say the standard of tuition doesn’t help with this. When I was learning my instructor insisted I got smartly up to the speed limit, pulled up to the line at junctions (rather than 3m from it) do I could see to pull out, and looked ahead to roundabouts so I could drive through without stopping if it was clear.
    I see a lot of learners, even in driving school cars and not just with a parent sat next to them dithering about at 20mph, sat so far from junctions that they can’t see and stopping at roundabouts. I don’t blame the learners but the idiot sat next to the learner.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    I’d also say the standard of tuition doesn’t help with this. When I was learning my instructor insisted I got smartly up to the speed limit, pulled up to the line at junctions (rather than 3m from it) do I could see to pull out, and looked ahead to roundabouts so I could drive through without stopping if it was clear.
    I see a lot of learners, even in driving school cars and not just with a parent sat next to them dithering about at 20mph, sat so far from junctions that they can’t see and stopping at roundabouts. I don’t blame the learners but the idiot sat next to the learner.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Completely agree here, we must have had the same instructor, or be from the same era, a little patience works wonders, and for blood pressure too.

  19. #19
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    I’d also say the standard of tuition doesn’t help with this. When I was learning my instructor insisted I got smartly up to the speed limit, pulled up to the line at junctions (rather than 3m from it) do I could see to pull out, and looked ahead to roundabouts so I could drive through without stopping if it was clear.
    I see a lot of learners, even in driving school cars and not just with a parent sat next to them dithering about at 20mph, sat so far from junctions that they can’t see and stopping at roundabouts. I don’t blame the learners but the idiot sat next to the learner.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I have zero issue with my tuition of Grace by the way (not insinuating that you were suggesting that I am the idiot sat next to the driver)

    Patience, relevant feedback, early warning, clear communication and keeping her calm even when things aren’t going smoothly (where I failed)

    Also…. This was all based on my experience on a Saturday afternoon…

    However, even when she was hitting the speed limit people were undercutting her, overtaking her and generally acting like pr@cks….

    My stepdad taught me (had 6 paid for lessons) and he was amazing…. I try to channel my stepdad when teaching Grace…!

    Fundamentally learners are learning and will, consequently, make mistakes…. And even if they do have poor tuition deserve patience…

  20. #20
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    I've got L plates on my car because my 17 year old daughter is learning to drive. So the L plates are on when I'm driving up the hill where my house is a right turn half way up the hill. The speed limit is 20mph. I'm bemused by the boy racer driving about 3 feet from my rear bumper as I drive at exactly 20mph up the hill & am waiting for the inevitable punishment pass as the road opens out into a straight section which happens to be the bit where I turn right into my property. I wait until I hear the after market exhaust cans bark their presence & the guy is almost alongside before I indicate right & almost immediately start to hang a right as the guy is mid manoevure. The boy racer almost shit himself. I regarded it as giving said boy racer a lesson in being patient

  21. #21
    I live on an estate that has one road in and out, for some reason that totally baffles me about 5 driving schools have chosen to use the road in to teach 3 point turns, it may sound trivial and I appreciate everyone has to learn but the other day I was working from home and had to keep going out, every time I left or returned I got stuck behind a learner doing a 3 point turn. It can’t be good for them because of the added pressure of 2 or 3 cars trying to get home!

  22. #22
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    Symptomatic of the general lack of courtesy and empathy in the world today I'm afraid. Being in a car seems to give the same isolation based lack of empathy as the internet does, people don't treat each other like fellow humans.

  23. #23
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I've got L plates on my car because my 17 year old daughter is learning to drive. So the L plates are on when I'm driving up the hill where my house is a right turn half way up the hill. The speed limit is 20mph. I'm bemused by the boy racer driving about 3 feet from my rear bumper as I drive at exactly 20mph up the hill & am waiting for the inevitable punishment pass as the road opens out into a straight section which happens to be the bit where I turn right into my property. I wait until I hear the after market exhaust cans bark their presence & the guy is almost alongside before I indicate right & almost immediately start to hang a right as the guy is mid manoevure. The boy racer almost shit himself. I regarded it as giving said boy racer a lesson in being patient
    Once again, you've revealed yourself to be a bit of a prat and part of the problem. And you're teaching your daughter how to drive?

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...me-feel-better

  24. #24
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    I’ve noticed this too, the sad thing is that the more pressure you put the learner under the more likely they’ll delay the car behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I've got L plates on my car because my 17 year old daughter is learning to drive. So the L plates are on when I'm driving up the hill where my house is a right turn half way up the hill. The speed limit is 20mph. I'm bemused by the boy racer driving about 3 feet from my rear bumper as I drive at exactly 20mph up the hill & am waiting for the inevitable punishment pass as the road opens out into a straight section which happens to be the bit where I turn right into my property. I wait until I hear the after market exhaust cans bark their presence & the guy is almost alongside before I indicate right & almost immediately start to hang a right as the guy is mid manoevure. The boy racer almost shit himself. I regarded it as giving said boy racer a lesson in being patient
    Why you would purposely want to do this? One day you’ll meet a “boy racer” as obstinate as you and end up in crash. Yep “boy racer” is in the wrong but the way the world is these days I’m sure the insurance claim won’t go as easy as you think.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    We should remember we were all learners once.

  26. #26
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    Learner drivers do not bother me and I give them a lot of space and time but I do object to the new breed of driving instructor - those who you can see on their mobile phones - those who choose (or don't even think about) the most evil rush hour bottlenecks for driving though with obvious novices and paying no attention to road speeds or lane position.

    I have had a few discussions with so called "instructors" - particularly when on the bike(s)

    B

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Once again, you've revealed yourself to be a bit of a prat and part of the problem. And you're teaching your daughter how to drive?

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...me-feel-better
    Shouldn’t be driving with those plates either.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I have zero issue with my tuition of Grace by the way (not insinuating that you were suggesting that I am the idiot sat next to the driver)

    Patience, relevant feedback, early warning, clear communication and keeping her calm even when things aren’t going smoothly (where I failed)

    Also…. This was all based on my experience on a Saturday afternoon…

    However, even when she was hitting the speed limit people were undercutting her, overtaking her and generally acting like pr@cks….

    My stepdad taught me (had 6 paid for lessons) and he was amazing…. I try to channel my stepdad when teaching Grace…!

    Fundamentally learners are learning and will, consequently, make mistakes…. And even if they do have poor tuition deserve patience…

    Not it at all, though those people do exist - reading back I could have worded that better🥴.
    Learners are learning, and should be given a bit of space and consideration which works both ways - not just with learners, either!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    I’d also say the standard of tuition doesn’t help with this. When I was learning my instructor insisted I got smartly up to the speed limit, pulled up to the line at junctions (rather than 3m from it) do I could see to pull out, and looked ahead to roundabouts so I could drive through without stopping if it was clear.
    I see a lot of learners, even in driving school cars and not just with a parent sat next to them dithering about at 20mph, sat so far from junctions that they can’t see and stopping at roundabouts. I don’t blame the learners but the idiot sat next to the learner.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app


    Exactly this. My instructor took me around an old industrial estate for the first couple of lessons to make sure I was comfortable changing gears, holding speed etc.

    You see far too many learners in their early stages who clearly should not yet be on main roads. Not their fault, it's usually the instructors.

  30. #30
    Craftsman Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMilts View Post
    People have no tolerance ....... these days
    Edited to summarise people generally.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kevkojak View Post
    Exactly this. My instructor took me around an old industrial estate for the first couple of lessons to make sure I was comfortable changing gears, holding speed etc.

    You see far too many learners in their early stages who clearly should not yet be on main roads. Not their fault, it's usually the instructors.
    Agree with this though I don't think it's a new phenomenon.

    I clearly remember my instructor on my first lesson taking me round a local housing estate. After 5 minutes we went out onto a 60mph road and drove the mile or so down to the next town. This was 23 years ago.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Agree with this though I don't think it's a new phenomenon.

    I clearly remember my instructor on my first lesson taking me round a local housing estate. After 5 minutes we went out onto a 60mph road and drove the mile or so down to the next town. This was 23 years ago.

    But were you doing 60?

  33. #33
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    The number of numpty drivers on the road these days I'm glad I stopped driving.

    I miss the motor and over the years had some great ones, and I still love cars, but I do not miss the act of driving. It used to be fun once, I even remember going out just for "a drive". Not anymore, people have no tolerance, patience and most of all real world driving skills.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    But were you doing 60?
    I think I got up to 50mph but my speed was probably all over the place!

  35. #35
    We all have to start somewhere, some younger than others, watch until the end


  36. #36
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    What could have gone wrong there? And they post this online?

  37. #37
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    I don't consider myself to be a fantastic driver however I've not had an accident in 20 years and have never been the subject of road rage consisting of more than a hand gesture.
    I try to be considerate of other road users, especially those on 2 wheels and those learning, I attribute this to the time I spent riding an L-plated 50cc 'moped' where you spent 90% of your time being overtaken by much faster traffic while in a state of abject terror. You learned what it was to be low man on the totem pole and how to anticipate what the melons around you were likely to do. You had almost preternatural awareness of exactly who else was on the road within a 500 meter radius, their direction, speed and likelihood of intersecting with your vector.
    Personally I believe that you should have to spend at least a year 'in country' on a 30 mph restricted moped on a provisional license, before you can even sit in the drivers seat of a car.

  38. #38
    Master geran's Avatar
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    It's not much better once they pass the driving test, my lad has a box fitted in the car to monitor driving speeds, smoothness etc, lots of folk sat on his bumper in the 30 / 40 limit areas, in the end I got a sticker for the back screen, basically states sorry for the slow speed black box fitted, it does appear to help.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    I don't consider myself to be a fantastic driver however I've not had an accident in 20 years and have never been the subject of road rage consisting of more than a hand gesture.
    I try to be considerate of other road users, especially those on 2 wheels and those learning, I attribute this to the time I spent riding an L-plated 50cc 'moped' where you spent 90% of your time being overtaken by much faster traffic while in a state of abject terror. You learned what it was to be low man on the totem pole and how to anticipate what the melons around you were likely to do. You had almost preternatural awareness of exactly who else was on the road within a 500 meter radius, their direction, speed and likelihood of intersecting with your vector.
    Personally I believe that you should have to spend at least a year 'in country' on a 30 mph restricted moped on a provisional license, before you can even sit in the drivers seat of a car.
    The thought of any of my 3 pootling around on. 50cc mopes brings me out in hives…. Glad your still with is Julian!

    Quote Originally Posted by geran View Post
    It's not much better once they pass the driving test, my lad has a box fitted in the car to monitor driving speeds, smoothness etc, lots of folk sat on his bumper in the 30 / 40 limit areas, in the end I got a sticker for the back screen, basically states sorry for the slow speed black box fitted, it does appear to help.
    Black boxes are a great idea and really instils the habit of respecting speed limits…. Id’ve happily placed them on a number of cars I saw this weekend

  40. #40
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy67 View Post
    Symptomatic of the general lack of courtesy and empathy in the world today I'm afraid. Being in a car seems to give the same isolation based lack of empathy as the internet does, people don't treat each other like fellow humans.
    This^

    I live in the sticks and the way some “ drivers” act around cyclists,horse riders and farm equipment leaves so much to be desired especially on narrow roads.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Once again, you've revealed yourself to be a bit of a prat and part of the problem. And you're teaching your daughter how to drive?

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...me-feel-better
    Once again you've shown yourself to be very unpleasant. One to be ignored.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I've got L plates on my car because my 17 year old daughter is learning to drive. So the L plates are on when I'm driving up the hill where my house is a right turn half way up the hill. The speed limit is 20mph. I'm bemused by the boy racer driving about 3 feet from my rear bumper as I drive at exactly 20mph up the hill & am waiting for the inevitable punishment pass as the road opens out into a straight section which happens to be the bit where I turn right into my property. I wait until I hear the after market exhaust cans bark their presence & the guy is almost alongside before I indicate right & almost immediately start to hang a right as the guy is mid manoevure. The boy racer almost shit himself. I regarded it as giving said boy racer a lesson in being patient
    Once again, you've revealed yourself to be a bit of a prat and part of the problem. And you're teaching your daughter how to drive?

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...me-feel-better
    Once again you've shown yourself to be very unpleasant. One to be ignored.
    Please add me to your ignore list. Any sane and level headed person can easily see that your driving isn't clever it's just dangerous.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I've got L plates on my car because my 17 year old daughter is learning to drive. So the L plates are on when I'm driving up the hill where my house is a right turn half way up the hill. The speed limit is 20mph. I'm bemused by the boy racer driving about 3 feet from my rear bumper as I drive at exactly 20mph up the hill & am waiting for the inevitable punishment pass as the road opens out into a straight section which happens to be the bit where I turn right into my property. I wait until I hear the after market exhaust cans bark their presence & the guy is almost alongside before I indicate right & almost immediately start to hang a right as the guy is mid manoevure. The boy racer almost shit himself. I regarded it as giving said boy racer a lesson in being patient
    Why do you have L plates on the car if your not teaching your daughter to drive?

    This is the reason people don't pay any attention to them, because they are stuck on and left on making them pointless.

  44. #44
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Alas it would seem location, time of the day, weather conditions, etc make bugger all difference to some drivers.

    Today I was out with my son and despite being on a wide B road, out in the sticks, with L Plates, dash cam, driving within the speed limit (which was 50), he was flashed and beeped by some old dear in her a Honda Jazz before she overtook him on a corner and just before the brow of a hill.

    What a complete t**t.

    Fitting a car with a blackbox is pointless unless it becomes mandatory for all cars. A better option might however be mandatory Dash Cams.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  45. #45
    Driving in Guernsey was an absolute delight. Everyone is exceedingly polite and good natured.

    Teaching my son some years ago we were driving on a fairly long, busy stretch of dual carriageway. The magnetic plate flew off the front. He saw it, I saw it, “best just carry on for the moment”. We both felt at the next couple of roundabouts he negotiated before he pulled in to swap over, that he had been treated with much more respect than if the L plate had been on the front.

  46. #46
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    I'll sum up every post in this thread.................

    Everybody else is a shite driver except me.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by steptoe View Post
    I'll sum up every post in this thread.................

    Everybody else is a shite driver except me.
    That's why i chose to stop driving. EVERYONE else is utterly rubbish at it compared to my godlike skills

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Alas it would seem location, time of the day, weather conditions, etc make bugger all difference to some drivers.

    Today I was out with my son and despite being on a wide B road, out in the sticks, with L Plates, dash cam, driving within the speed limit (which was 50), he was flashed and beeped by some old dear in her a Honda Jazz before she overtook him on a corner and just before the brow of a hill.

    What a complete t**t.

    Fitting a car with a blackbox is pointless unless it becomes mandatory for all cars. A better option might however be mandatory Dash Cams.
    "within the speed limit" might have been 20mph. It's going some to be overtaken by a biddy in Honda Jazz, they're normally at the front of a rolling road block doing 40 through the 60's and then carrying on at 40 in 30's

  49. #49
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puntsdog View Post
    Sadly the country is full of inconsiderate, intolerant people who have the sole intention of getting wherever they are going as selfishly as possible.
    As for driving, it is a shame other road users quickly forget that they were once learners.
    Frustrating as it may be it is the right thing to give space and time to learner drives.
    There you go, fixed

  50. #50
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berin View Post
    "within the speed limit" might have been 20mph. It's going some to be overtaken by a biddy in Honda Jazz, they're normally at the front of a rolling road block doing 40 through the 60's and then carrying on at 40 in 30's
    He was doing about 40mph, but his speed is irrelevant, as what she did unsafe.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


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