£150k to invest and grow

[Mr.D]

Hello

Looks like I'll have about £150k going spare. Interesting.

Assuming I don't want to put it into property or pension funds what would be the most lucrative way to invest ?
I'm assuming speculating on the markets with it is probably the best approach. I did not bad with £60k of gold bullion in the noughties and made about 20% profit in 3-4 months ( was almost a full time job though and to be honest if I had walked awy for a few months instead of being smart I'd probably have made slightly more or the same.

Cheers for suggestions , columbian nose powder and ladies of the night not required either.

[Macca]

Simple solution here, spend 150k on unpopular rolex models now (my tip is polar explorer and Milgauss models) and leave it a few years... kerrrching lol

You’re probably going to encounter less hassle investing but with Brexit who knows where to invest, properly is a non no in terms of appreciating but a rental portfolio on the other hand is very lucrative, oh and good time to get an e46 m3 I feel.. prices stating to creep, get a good bargain be now and they will sky rocket

So maybe a mix of property and rolex, and a bmw m3.... and there’s my awful top for the week finished


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pete-r]

What's the timeframe for ROI?

Can't go wrong with property and if you wanted high yield you could buy and let 2 or even 3 small flats/houses in mid Wales or the north east.

[Brian]

1 year bond 2% - no risk joint names until all this unceratinty sh** is over - but when will that be.... but compound interest is your friend when you lend money.

B

Corporate bond funds are priced too highly (IMHO) at the moment but I'm yielding 4% - if you have ISA allownaces could be considered.

Stay away from the dreaded market would I at the moment with Rees Mogg and the likes of Boris and the other Eton mess all shorting around all over the place.

Just an opinion you understand................No mention of any derivatives you may note.

I like my money to be my money. :-)

[Mr.D]

What's the timeframe for ROI?

Can't go wrong with property and if you wanted high yield you could buy and let 2 or even 3 small flats/houses in mid Wales or the north east.

ROI ... 5 years plus ??? . I was kinda shying away from property. I was under the impression its not great these days. Just sold a house in London.

[Andyg]

Proper first world problem

If you buy "things" then you have to consider the costs and ease associated with selling them, however if it's really burning a hole in your pocket then invest it in something you enjoy. Perhaps a classic car (A X50 Porsche 996 Turbo would be a good starting point, or watches (a selection of 4 or 5 digit Rolex Sports watches) or perhaps some Art ((Bansky, Hirst, etc). The downside with cars is the costs of storage and maintenance, but this is offset by the thrill of driving them.

The answer is certainly not a boat, a helicopter, race horses or a football club

[Mick P]

Best overall performers are tracker funds. Dead easy to buy, cost peanuts to manage and nearly always beat managed funds.

[ryanb741]

Don't buy property. Ethically I don't think it's the right thing to do. I'd be tempted to stick it into the Vantage Lifetracker 100 fund and let it ride, making sure you use the full £20k per annum Isa Allowance

[justin44]

We were in the same boat recently, we took the simple approach as we wanted to just spend it and forget.

Bought a flat cost £148,000
Rent £ 975.00 a month
Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
Management fee 8%

We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.

A friend would have bought 3 properties in Wales for the same money, but we took the approach that 3 properties could have 3 times the risk if things breaking, and finding tenants etc..

Is this the right way to invest? Maybe there is a better way but it works for us.

[Yoda]

Bought a flat cost £148,000
Rent £ 975.00 a month
Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
Management fee 8%

We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.

Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks

[justin44]

Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks

This is where I start look a bit stupid, we didn’t plan for either we just had the money sitting in the bank earning nothing so bought a flat, we did have a plan that it would earn more than in the bank for now then when my son leaves home he could either rent it cheap or we could sell it to give him a deposit.

If you asked me today I’d say, the monthly income is going into a saving account which we will use to buy another flat, and when we plan to retire 25-28 years away, we will sell and cash in.

My wife and I are both pretty happy go lucky people, we have this flat and a small 3 bed that we live in, our monthly out goings are minimal so we live pretty cheaply. I was lucky to have a few jobs that by my needs paid very well so we saved quickly.

[jaytip]

Don't buy property. Ethically I don't think it's the right thing to do.

Can you expand on this?

Cheers.

[chicaneuk]

Can you expand on this?

Cheers.

House prices are through the roof because wealthy individuals have bought up "portfolios" of properties to rent (purely because it gives a better return on investment than regular savings and investments) meaning that normal people can't get a foot on the door on the property ladder, perhaps? Probably an unpopular perspective because TZ-UK seems chock full of afluent folks who just happen to stumble on 150K they don't know what to do with but.. I think reflects the view in the real world / of normal people.

[jwillans]

House prices are through the roof because wealthy individuals are buying up "portfolios" of properties to rent (purely because it gives a better return on investment than regular savings and investments) meaning that normal people can't get a foot on the door on the property ladder, perhaps?

I had thought that the government's new taxing system on BTL was causing many with (heavily) mortgaged properties to offload these?

[TKH]

Funny market to pick a safe / dead cert with current climate

But classic cars are well becoming very hit and miss and I’ve been in and out for 20 years.
Property or BtL is still ok but brings with it new tax rules and always a few headaches even if under management

So as we’re already here on TZ for me has to be watches specifically Mr Wilsdorfs ..I can’t see any retraction and it’s a fuss free investment you can enjoy....also they are ‘wasting assets’ so CGT is treated differently.

Also if you have 1 house and need to free up cash it’s a challenge if you have 10 Rolex it’s easier and there like cash and there portable should you escape the U.K. from Brexit madness ...haha

[chicaneuk]

I had thought that the government's new taxing system on BTL was causing many with (heavily) mortgaged properties to offload these?

I was talking folks who are buying properties outright rather than people with multiple mortgages. Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.

[Rodder]

I was talking folks who are buying properties outright rather than people with multiple mortgages. Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.

The economy needs rented property, or there’d be no mobility for workers.

It’s a market economy and it’s no less ethical to invest in property than earn 100ks and spend it on cars watches, holidays etc. The worst thing you can do if you’re rich is save your money. It’s better to spend it and create jobs.

[Seamaster73]

Vanguard global tracker.

[chicaneuk]

The economy needs rented property, or there’d be no mobility for workers.

It’s a market economy and it’s no less ethical to invest in property than earn 100ks and spend it on cars watches, holidays etc. .

I don't think luxuries like watches/cars/holidays are comparable to buying up housing. There's a limited amount of houses in this country, relative to the number of people wanting to buy them.. which is why, relatively, they cost so much.

Pricing on Rolex's (for example) is only driven by (other) wealthy collectors buying and selling and Rolex's annual price increases.. they can charge what they want as far as I'm concerned as watches are ultimately little more than luxury / un-necessary goods.

[noTAGlove]

All depends on your attitude to risk.

Everything is toppy now. House prices, stock market even watches.

No easy investments at the moment, that why any additional money I’m investing now is just tredding water (and just about keeping up inflation) in a cash ISA.

Can’t risk 40% stock market falls like in the noughties, even if the prospect is low. But, it was considered low in the noughties until it just happened.

[hogthrob]

If you aren't going to invest in property, then wouldn't it be best to spread it around?

Places you could put some:
Premium Bonds
ISAs
Your mortgage

I know you exluded pension funds, but it's a very tax efficient way of saving.

[VDG]

Ah, I was about to suggest some gear and trannies, oh well. Seriously though, if it’s a long term investment , buy an antique art. There is only one way the value of it goes. Plus it’s nice to look at and a talking point if you like to entertain.

[Rodder]

I don't think luxuries like watches/cars/holidays are comparable to buying up housing. There's a limited amount of houses in this country, relative to the number of people wanting to buy them.. which is why, relatively, they cost so much.

Pricing on Rolex's (for example) is only driven by (other) wealthy collectors buying and selling and Rolex's annual price increases.. they can charge what they want as far as I'm concerned as watches are ultimately little more than luxury / un-necessary goods.

Maybe not entirely comparable, but one could argue wasting large sums of money on Luxery goods is no more moral than renting a house.

As said, the multiplier effect of this ‘wasted’ money does help the economy. But so does providing rented accommodation.

I think it’s a complex situation but I don’t think it’s black and white to say it’s unethical to rent a house or flat.

[Seamaster73]

I think it’s a complex situation but I don’t think it’s black and white to say it’s unethical to rent a house or flat.

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

[Rodder]

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

Lots are. But if there weren’t any we’d have all been living at home.

[Mr Pointy]

Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks

This is where I start look a bit stupid, we didn’t plan for either we just had the money sitting in the bank earning nothing so bought a flat, we did have a plan that it would earn more than in the bank for now then when my son leaves home he could either rent it cheap or we could sell it to give him a deposit.

If you asked me today I’d say, the monthly income is going into a saving account which we will use to buy another flat, and when we plan to retire 25-28 years away, we will sell and cash in.

My wife and I are both pretty happy go lucky people, we have this flat and a small 3 bed that we live in, our monthly out goings are minimal so we live pretty cheaply. I was lucky to have a few jobs that by my needs paid very well so we saved quickly.

It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.

[justin44]

It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.

We are in a position that I thinks is weighed in the landlords favour, the flat is near a university so it’s always students, there is a huge shortage of good property to rent in the area so even when one student left early the flat was only empty 1 day. The management agents are based at the flats and view the property every month.

I agree it’s always a risk, but so is life.

[David_D]

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

Having said that, I never met an owner occupier student.

[Seamaster73]

Having said that, I never met an owner occupier student.

What can I tell you? I saw Anthony Sher in Singer in '89 and it left an indelible impression.

[P9CLY]

See my thread re whisky.

Bought several bottles (advised which ones) over 10 years ago,one bottle of AH Hirsch cost me £30 ish and checked last night whilst having a few drinks of my useable whisky with the Son in law,now worth over 2k.......very happy indeed.
I did buy them after hearing whisky was a good investment and mine it seems certainly were,I'll be going back to the same shop in Skipton to do the same again soon.With hindsight I wish I'd bought for eg 4 or 5 bottles per year as an investment looking at mine now.

[Tifa]

Unicorn horns.
I've doubled my money over the last fortnight.

[P9CLY]

Unicorn horns.
I've doubled my money over the last fortnight.

You were ripped off,they be Mammoth tusks not Unicorn horns.

[chicaneuk]

See my thread re whisky.

Bought several bottles (advised which ones) over 10 years ago,one bottle of AH Hirsch cost me £30 ish and checked last night whilst having a few drinks of my useable whisky with the Son in law,now worth over 2k.......very happy indeed.
I did buy them after hearing whisky was a good investment and mine it seems certainly were,I'll be going back to the same shop in Skipton to do the same again soon.With hindsight I wish I'd bought for eg 4 or 5 bottles per year as an investment looking at mine now.

Problem is there’s never any guarantees on this kind of thing. Whisky market seems ripe for a decline after years of boom.. not sure that’s where I would be investing at this point but people who bought wisely 10+ years ago on rare expressions are probably laughing all the way to the bank, like yourself!

[Mr.D]

I used to regularly buy ( and drink) bottles of Rosebank in the noughties. Probably less than £40 a pop. Now the cheapest expression is £400 and others regularly hit £2000.

[Andyg]

I am struggling with the idea of Whisky as an investment.

If you buy it and then drink it, surely it's a consumable and once it's gone it's gone.

If you keep it, with a view of selling it later, then its effectively "art" i.e glass statute filled with brown water, in which case Lalique might be a better option.

[Tifa]

You were ripped off,they be Mammoth tusks not Unicorn horns.

BOIIOCKS!
Knew I shouldn't have trusted that adviser.....

I am struggling with the idea of Whisky as an investment.

If you buy it and then drink it, surely it's a consumable and once it's gone it's gone.

If you keep it, with a view of selling it later, then its effectively "art" i.e glass statute filled with brown water, in which case Lalique might be a better option.

On the plus side, it's a wasting asset I guess...so no CGT.

[Skyman]

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

Hopefully you have matured now.

[Andyg]

BOIIOCKS!
Knew I shouldn't have trusted that adviser.....



On the plus side, it's a wasting asset I guess...so no CGT.

Currently , but then no CGT on watches, cars. either.

[jameswrx]

Couple of Lamborghini Gallardo’s with gated manual transmissions Then hype them up on Instagram and YouTube amongst the elite rich car community and you’ll make thousands.

[tixntox]

The old holiday camp in Hemsby Norfolk is being considered as a place for ex sevicemen and women to rehabilitate and train for reintegration to civilian life, to avoid the "drop". If you gave it to me, I would give it to them. Feel free to cut out the middle man.

[Mr.D]

Couple of Lamborghini Gallardo’s with gated manual transmissions Then hype them up on Instagram and YouTube amongst the elite rich car community and you’ll make thousands.

Wow never knew you could get a Gallardo for that sort of money , seen a couple below the £75k mark.
I kinda doubt its a viable investment though no?


Funnily enough I shot with one on a film set in 2012 and it was a piece of garbage. ( I had to show the stunt driver how to start it) Think I drove it at 3mph in the clearance depot at the airport for about 30ft.

paint bubbles and scuffs up close and the engine sounded like it had a bag of nails in it. Admittedly you are unlikely to give a film unit a pristine one but it was extremely disappointing in the flesh. Got lots of attention though.

[Mr.D]

Fish and chip shop ?

[CaptainSlow]

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

Why do people on this forum have a thing about landlords?

[Mr.D]

Crypto currency ?

[eagletower]

As we used to say when I was a student, all landlords are scum.

Funny that, as a landlord students in my experience make the worst tenants.

[thegreatdogwood]

Would be interested to hear if your objective is capital growth or income? And what your expected net yield (after expenses) is? Thanks

Looks like an income play, at a shade over 6% before maintenance costs. That a very high rent for a £148k flat, by comparison for £975 pcm you get to rent a £350k apartment in Didsbury.

[David_D]

We were in the same boat recently, we took the simple approach as we wanted to just spend it and forget.

Bought a flat cost £148,000
Rent £ 975.00 a month
Service charge £ 1,200.00 per year
Management fee 8%

We do nothing, if something breaks the management company call and we say fix it, they then deduct the cost from the rent.

A friend would have bought 3 properties in Wales for the same money, but we took the approach that 3 properties could have 3 times the risk if things breaking, and finding tenants etc..

Is this the right way to invest? Maybe there is a better way but it works for us.

It looks to be about 6.4% before tax or 5.1% after tax at standard rate so not too shabby but not spectacular. Of course any repairs, voids or tenants not paying & trashing the place would quickly reduce the yield. Just as a nod to the mention of Vanguard above the Lifestrategy 60% 5 year annualised return is around 8.5%, but without the capital gain (or maybe loss) that the flat can yield.

For me it's the potential for the wrong tenant to to cause substantial damage which puts me off. I know personally two landlords who have been left with several months unpaid rent & £20k of damage done to their properties.

Was £148,000 inclusive of SDLT (including 3% extra for 2nd property) and legal fees? Obviously agent's and legal fees when you come to sell too. And the Government has a higher rate of CGT for residential property.

Your current yield is fine but you need to think of new carpets and redecoration every 5-10 years and maybe new kitchen at, say, 10 years - and that's just fixing wear and tear not damage that Mr P refers to. Service charges and management fees can increase. With flats there's always the 'bad neighbour' blight which is out of your control but can affect your rent and potentially ability to let. You've presumably got some landlord's insurance in place (even if buildings cover is included in the management charge). There'll always be some void periods - even if that's just while you have decorating carried out, etc..

With a single property, there's no 'averaging' as you get with multiple properties so your income return is potentially very volatile.

In terms of tax, apart from sharing income and gains with your spouse, there's limited planning scope. If you have a £100,000 latent gain on some shares or funds, you can manage disposals over a few tax years to take advantage of multiple annual allowances. (And, as I mentioned, any CGT on shares, etc., is at a lower rate than property.)

[David_D]

Looks like an income play, at a shade over 6% before maintenance costs. That a very high rent for a £148k flat, by comparison for £975 pcm you get to rent a £350k apartment in Didsbury.

So many factors but certainly it's my experience that rents are not proportionate to property values and the higher the value, the lower the gross % return.

[David_D]

Certainly the few folks I know with 4 or more properties (to rent) don't seem to be in any hurry to get rid of them.

The "amateurs" with 1 or 2 properties are definitely more likely to be selling up as the various legal/regulatory/tax changes make it more expensive and more hassle. Where property prices have stagnated for years, like round where I am, there were quite a few "accidental" landlords where people let when they moved as they couldn't sell. As prices and demand have started to creep up, albeit slowly, that's been the signal for them to sell up.

[Mr.D]

update on this;

it was actually £200k , I now have to hang onto it for the next few months. I can put half into a nationwide loyalty savings account with no restrictions and get about 1%.
Any suggestions wha to do with it short term? I can't spend it or lock it up until maybe the end of the year and I can't risk losing any of it till after then also.