Kidney stones

[Onelasttime]

Jesus Christ! Not me, but my wife has now been six days in extreme pain, hasn't slept the past three nights, and we're all at breaking point.

What can we do? We're going to go back to A&E today to force the scan that we feel should have been done in the first instance when she arrived, vomiting and in pain last Thursday. At least then they'll know the size of the offending stone(s) and be able to act accordingly. We thought she had appendicitis so were mightily relieved to be told it was kidney stones. More fool us. I can't believe they just send people home to deal with this by themselves, with some Ibuprofen that doesn't even go near.

Reading around some medical websites it appears to be a painful waiting game until they either pass through or infection starts. Great! But this pain can't go on indefinitely. She's in agony.

Has anyone had them? Any experiences/advice to share?

We don't even know what type of stones they are but presume calcium???

[MADDOG]

I had one many years ago, and yes VERY painful. The pain is caused by the stone moving down the uritha. It was that bad I was told it was the eqivalant to a female going into labour. I had mine for about 6 weeks. I was put on buscapan and pain relief but nothing helped really. I was recommended by my GP to have a stent fitted, but inserted up my 'japs eye ' ( don't no the medical term ) which I said no to or have ultra sound to brake down the calcium. It eventually passed whilst peeing. The thing was only 3mm but caused alot of agony.

I do feel your pain, pardon the punn but it will pass in time. It's all about what you eat. Cranberry juice is meant to be good to stop them coming back.

[BillyCasper]

All I can say, having had two, is that I was x-rayed straightaway and I was given sufficiently powerful painkillers to control pain during the waiting period to see if they passed: morphine on one occasion, diclofenac for the back passage and codeine/paracetamol. One passed, one was surgically removed, lithotripsy was a long winded affair and didn’t work. I don’t understand why she has been left to suffer the pain as it’s unbelievably bad.


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[ryanb741]

My sympathies. I had a 5mm blighter a few years ago and the pain was intolerable. I was on diamorphine. Ibuprofen won't cut it. As a bit of advice drinks with fresh lemon juice will work to dissolve the stone and make it smaller and easier to pass to you must make sure she has that. But once again I'm sorry for her suffering as it's debilitating pain.

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[solwisesteve]

My sympathies. I had a 5mm blighter a few years ago and the pain was intolerable. I was on diamorphine. Ibuprofen won't cut it. As a bit of advice drinks with fresh lemon juice will work to dissolve the stone and make it smaller and easier to pass to you must make sure she has that. But once again I'm sorry for her suffering as it's debilitating pain.

So you mean citric acid? So making your own drink up with, say, a teaspoon full in glass of warm water would, presumably, be better? I'd be investigating that route if it was me.

Had a stone many, many, years ago. Woke up in staggering pain in the night. Thankfully it passed with my morning wee (plus a little blood) and that was it over. I know exactly what your missus is going through.

[yumma]

I've not had them thankfully but remember my Dad suffering with them for weeks. No pain killers touched them, he ended up seeing a herbalist out of desperation and after a few days of drinking a foul smelling concoction the stones broke down and passed. He swore by the home brew. There is a lot on the net about home remedies, I'd try them all as almost anything would be better than suffering that pain I'm sure. good luck

[Hammond]

My wife had kidney stones 6 years ago, about 10 days before our wedding. The amount of pain she was in horrified me, I was in a complete panic.

I can only presume it was because of the timing of the situation that we got the service we did, but St Georges Tooting were excellent and she had the stones lasered within 2 days. That breaks them up much smaller so they're easier to pass. I'm assuming one cannot simply demand it, but just to say that it was an option and it did work in her instance.

[julian2002]

Had a stone when I lived in the states, they x-rayed me after shooting me full of some sort of dye, zapped me with ultrasound then had me pee through a sieve for a month while charging me an extortionate amount (about 30k in 1993 dollars). Thankfully my insurance covered it all.
Pain was the worst I've ever experienced and I never want to go through that again... EVER

I would suggest returning to your GP and getting them on side - the A&E department is usually best for momentary care and applying a temporary fix to the problem or admitting more serious life threatening issues to the wards. The GP is the best line of attack for something like this where immediate on going pain relief and then outpatient tests are needed. I believe A&E are reluctant to prescribe due to budget considerations also you are more likely to get strong pain medication from you GP who presumably knows you than an A&E department on the look out for drug seeking behaviour (sad, but a sign of our times).

[sundial]

My GP failed to diagnose my kidney stones telling me I'd be in more discomfort and immobile if stones were the problem. When a fragment eventually passed I managed to catch it - what a relief! Took it to show my GP whence he rolled it around on his desk using his pen. Subsequently had scans which revealed more stones and had lithotripsy treatments to try and break them up. Kidney stones can be caused by not drinking sufficient fluids; fluid intake washes them through. Lack of fluids makes them build up. When pieces break off they can get stuck in the urethra and the pain can be excruciating. If in pain for weeks insist on a scan. If pain is bearable consider drinking more fluids to wash the stone(s) through … but do so only after consulting your GP to ensure safe and that pain is not caused by other ailments.

dunk

[Onelasttime]

We've been in A&E for nearly four hours now. We've seen a nurse, not a doctor, who tried to get rid of us and dismissed wife's symptoms as constipation. WTF?

We have to get a GP to refer us for a scan. We already did this last Friday. We've now been told there is only one doctor for the entire A&E department. Where are we supposed to go?

Tried to phone the local surgery to get an appointment and follow up the scan request. On hold for 30 minutes waiting to move up the queue. Next appointment time is next week.

Had to leave wife in a different A&E department that has at least agreed to allow a doctor to see her. Thanks a bunch.

Pick up the kids and wife calls to say she will be another three hours, all the while doubled over in agony.

This is the NHS today - a big fecking mess. The last time I used any NHS service it ran like clockwork and I couldn't heap enough praise on it. Tory austerity has ruined it if this experience is anything to go by.

In many respects I wish it had been appendicitis because at least they would have had to deal with it pronto.

[GraniteQuarry]

I've got a wee jar with five stones, one passes every two to three years so a dab hand at it now!

As soon as the groin/back signals kick off it's onto heavy paracetamol and a mix of 50/50 lemon juice and olive oil, tablespoon taken every half hour along with a glass of water. It may be an old grandma remedy but defo works for me, the idea being that helps lubricate and dissolve the sharpness somewhat as the stone moves down the tight pipe from kidney to the bladder. Once it plops in there the pain totally stops and you get bloodied urine, at that point ramp up to like a litre of water per hour so you piss like a racehorse and with any luck the bugger(s) will pop out within a couple hours.

The above it what works for me so far, biggest was jagged as F and about the size of the pinkie nail, others have been small and polished but still feckin hurt!

Your wife could have a serious issue though so defo need investigation as there's various forms of stones and ways they can come out or be trapped. Good luck.

[rabbitinheadlights]

I had 3 in the last 5 years and as others have said they are bloody awful. Last one was 6mm and took 8 weeks to pass, some dayswere better than other. Lots of lemon water and lots of walking, a nurse told me stones go to feet so the more movement the better. Overall not much more can do as they will pass unless too big then maybe surgery as last resort. Poor thing it is horrible.

[Gestarp]

i feel your wife's pain op. i have just returned to work this week after 7 months off, dealing with multiple kidney stones (3) After 2 days trying to cope with the pain i went to the GP who thought it could be stones and put me on the list for a scan. after another 5-6 days the pain was unbearable so got an out of hours GP appointment through nhs24. doc gave me an injection of diclofenac, this eased the pain for a few hours, but soon ramped up again so went to a&e and was given oromorph as i waited my turn to be seen by a doctor. after 3-4 hours, i got took to a cubicle but as the doctor was busy just had a nurse administer morphine by injection until the early hours of the morning. once seen by doctor got took for a scan where it was confirmed that it was stones.was kept in for 3 days while they tried to get the pain under control which it did. that was only the start of the nightmare. once refered to the urology and lithotripsy depts i ended up having lithotripsy which failed 1st surgery failed too much inflammation stent fitted for 12 weeks which results in passing blood constantly, and going for a pee was like taking body shots from a pro boxer 2nd and 3rd ops cancelled 3rd op while i was at the hospital waiting to go into theatre. 4th op was a success and the immediate relief from the pain is like a gift from god. after a week i took a urinary tract infection which has taken 3 different types of antibiotics which im still taking but thankfully i can pee again and looks like the infection is being beat.

Advice i would give is get the strongest pain killer they will give you. ( oromorph, codiene phosphate fentanyl patches if they will give you them) the pain killers don't stop the pain. get referred to urology asap. don't be afraid to complain if you don't think you are not getting the proper treatment. ( i had to after the 2nd cancelled op) as much fluid intake as possible. although if the stone gets stuck like one of mine no amount of fluid will pass it.try and skip the lithotripsy its bloody awful depending on where the stone is situated. the rest is grin and bear the unbearable pain until its out. the whole episode was by far the worst experience of my adult life.

once you get stones you are at a higher risk of getting them again. i'm classed as a stone maker now as the kidney is filled with what they call dust which is just the mineral that causes the stone.

there are 3 different types of stone, depending on the mineral make up the stone you have. i have a follow up appointment in three months where they will tell me the type i had and which foods and drinks to avoid in the future.

as i said at the start i feel her pain and can only hope it passes quickly. :(

[ryanb741]

Once again this thread highlights the somewhat irrational attachment/reliance Brits have to the 'free' NHS and the importance of having Private Medical insurance in order to avoid suffering. In my case with kidney stones within an hour of pain starting I was having a scan and then given diamorphine as I had private medical insurance via my employer. Urology follow up was the next day.

It's about time we invested more in the NHS and this shouldn't just come via taxation on the wealthy (who are least likely to use it anyway). We should look at privatising elements of it to drive efficiencies. I do believe in having free healthcare for the most vulnerable but I'm sure most people could afford to spend twenty quid to visit their GP which would drive a lot of money back into the system.

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[Saint-Just]

I can agree with having to pay a fee to the GP (means tested)
I disagree with the privatisation. It has NEVER benefited the customer (patient in this case).
A compulsory (also means tested) supplementary insurance (Bupa-like) could also be a way forward, keeping the NHS free at the point of delivery, if the insurance was mutualised.

[mylofitz]

Sure it's not gall stones? Typical symptoms of extreme pain , nausea and vomiting. Amazed no scan has been done to confirm diagnosis.

[Onelasttime]

i feel your wife's pain op. i have just returned to work this week after 7 months off, dealing with multiple kidney stones (3) After 2 days trying to cope with the pain i went to the GP who thought it could be stones and put me on the list for a scan. after another 5-6 days the pain was unbearable so got an out of hours GP appointment through nhs24. doc gave me an injection of diclofenac, this eased the pain for a few hours, but soon ramped up again so went to a&e and was given oromorph as i waited my turn to be seen by a doctor. after 3-4 hours, i got took to a cubicle but as the doctor was busy just had a nurse administer morphine by injection until the early hours of the morning. once seen by doctor got took for a scan where it was confirmed that it was stones.was kept in for 3 days while they tried to get the pain under control which it did. that was only the start of the nightmare. once refered to the urology and lithotripsy depts i ended up having lithotripsy which failed 1st surgery failed too much inflammation stent fitted for 12 weeks which results in passing blood constantly, and going for a pee was like taking body shots from a pro boxer 2nd and 3rd ops cancelled 3rd op while i was at the hospital waiting to go into theatre. 4th op was a success and the immediate relief from the pain is like a gift from god. after a week i took a urinary tract infection which has taken 3 different types of antibiotics which im still taking but thankfully i can pee again and looks like the infection is being beat.

Advice i would give is get the strongest pain killer they will give you. ( oromorph, codiene phosphate fentanyl patches if they will give you them) the pain killers don't stop the pain. get referred to urology asap. don't be afraid to complain if you don't think you are not getting the proper treatment. ( i had to after the 2nd cancelled op) as much fluid intake as possible. although if the stone gets stuck like one of mine no amount of fluid will pass it.try and skip the lithotripsy its bloody awful depending on where the stone is situated. the rest is grin and bear the unbearable pain until its out. the whole episode was by far the worst experience of my adult life.

once you get stones you are at a higher risk of getting them again. i'm classed as a stone maker now as the kidney is filled with what they call dust which is just the mineral that causes the stone.

there are 3 different types of stone, depending on the mineral make up the stone you have. i have a follow up appointment in three months where they will tell me the type i had and which foods and drinks to avoid in the future.

as i said at the start i feel her pain and can only hope it passes quickly. :(

Christ, that's bad. It never rains, it pours

Well, a CT scan yesterday showed specks (stones?) but something else unclear on the ovary so she spent the night in hospital and will have more thorough ultrasound scans today. A doctor has reassured her that they don't think it's anything 'serious' at this point and is more than likely a cystic growth, which has inflamed the pain combined with the stones - a double whammy and bad timing. Fingers crossed it's nothing more, and painkillers and time will sort it.

As for private versus NHS, every fibre of my being is against the private healthcare system, but after 4 hours in A&E yesterday, I can't deny I spent time researching kidney stone specialists last night. I believe, and this played out yesterday, that once you find the right department and people in the NHS, it works brilliantly, but it was the getting there that fried my brain. It's up to the patient to join the dots between the departments and demand the change, otherwise we could have been on a carousel for days/weeks trying to get seen.

[gilford]

Currently going through something similar myself.

Went to the quacks a month ago with a lot of pain in my right side, did a urine sample and blood was present. A week later had an X-Ray which was clear but pain and blood still there. I've drank loads of water and the pain has subsided but the blood is still present so I have an ultrasound this afternoon to see what's going on.

I've not been in pain like the OP's Wife but it is worrying, and to make matters worse I had a colonoscopy yesterday!

[gray]

I am a great believer in using the organisations own rules and guidelines against them to get what I want - in particular what my family needs. So I use NICE to see what they should or could be doing in the NHS and use that as my start point.

Parliament statements can also be useful. I won't go into details but funding wasn't available for certain important genetic tests in seeking a diagnosis, not related to kidney stones. I was informed that a Parliamentary debate included a statement by the government that CCGs, local area healthcare planning and commissioning, should pay for them. Basically the GP pays. Let battle commence.

I've had no hesitation in going private when I could and the difference in speed and quality of treatment is startling - which is regrettable as the NHS is amazing.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I’ve had two.

The first was about fifteen years ago and passed within a day.

The second was last year and took about three weeks and hospital intervention to pass.

Kidney stones are recognised by the medical profession as among the very worst pain a human being can experience. It is not a tolerable pain.

A friend of mine who has had three children but also kidney stones states that childbirth was a walk in the park by comparison. I’ll take her word for that.

I find the only way to get relief is lying on a hot water bottle- it does work. Also, avoid broccoli apparently as it is linked to stone formation.

I had a CAT scan last year and fortunately they found only the one, there are currently no more. But if you have had one there is a 50% chance you’ll have another within ten years.

The most amazing thing though is how immediate the relief is when the stone passes. I attended (successfully) a senior job interview just 24hrs later and did a whole full on day of interviews and presentations without problem.

My every sympathy for anyone who gets one.